Darkside Tail of the Dragon Video

Bluehighways · Jan 1, 2020

Something for the Dark-Side folks to take a look at.

Following behind more than one Dark-Side bike on many a back road, I can attest to the accuracy of this video.

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Flyboy1958 · Jan 2, 2020

What is "Darkside"?

M61A1MECH · Jan 2, 2020

Darkside refers to running car tires on motorcycles.

Wahoo · Jan 2, 2020

opcorn:

dbmachine · Jan 2, 2020

Wow that sidewall had some roll to it. Awesome perspective video.

Retired60mech · Jan 2, 2020

Leans it over as far as it'll go!

Greg
2004 GL1800
Rider 123, 2019, 2020 Tour of Honor
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Rellison · Jan 2, 2020

I’m running the dark side on the back, and so far I love it. Haven’t done the heavy curves as of yet, but great on everyday riding.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

freebird · Jan 3, 2020

Anyone figure out how to disable the stock TPS? 2 reasons, 1. CT 2. FOBO BIKE
sensors. You can find out the pressure & temp of both tires from your bed! Honda ones
you need to ride 1-2 miles before they come on!

MountainRider · Jan 2, 2020

That's awesome! I wonder what tire he's running. :grin2:

Tex-Ed · Jan 2, 2020

Rolling down the road, the profile looks exactly like the one on my Wing and the one delivered to my door an hour ago from Tire Rack. Mine is a Yokohama Avid Envigor RF. Got 22,500 on my first one and I thought I'd better be ready to go when I wear it out. Looks to have about half of the tread left, but I figure it's like the gas gauges on all my vehicles- the last half uses up faster than the first half. >

Dan45t · Jan 2, 2020

Cool video.
Wish I would have had my snow control on when we rode the Dragon last June.

weengers · Jan 2, 2020

Great video showing how much tire is on the ground.
Would be great to see the same video perspective with a cement radial, as someone used to call a MT.

Ghost Rider 2 · Jan 2, 2020

My guess that is standard car tire not a run flat.

weengers · Jan 2, 2020

And I was thinking the opposite due to lower pressure. When Dad and I first switched to CTs, over a decade ago, first tire was a Dunlop WinterSport RF. His description of what was happening in a curve was exactly what this video demonstrates.

texasdw · Jan 2, 2020

Cool and entertaining video. I couldn't stop watching.

But at the same time. It's a little disconcerting to me. I get the long distance advantage of the darkside. But for curvy stuff like this it just seems...well...hard to described...disconcerting.

Monk · Jan 2, 2020

About 10 years ago, I followed a couple of darksiders around in the Ozarks for a year trying to wrap my head around how and or why it worked. At every stop I would look at their tires, looking for what I call the wear line, where that portion of the tire is no longer on the pavement. Couldn't figure out for a long time how the tire took the curves like it did and not have the wear line up on the sidewall. The explanation is in this video. In the curves you will see the sidewall flex as the downward force of the bike in the curve is pushed down on the tire.

After that year I put one on my bike and have not had any need and or desire to switch back. And I spend an enormous amount of time riding the curves in the Ozarks! :thumbup:

blacktop · Jan 2, 2020

To me it does not appear to have a large tire sidewall contact area in curves compared to a MC tire. It would be interesting to see a comparison of a MC tire vs a CT on the same stretch of road. Don't see a problem with this on dry roads but I would question how effective this would be in the rain or on a wet road. To each his own but not for me. In my mind a MC tire would have a lot more rubber on the road in curves and when roads are wet that's critical.

Monk · Jan 2, 2020

Not trying to start any kind of disagreement or anything like that. But collecting information is how you discover the truth when it comes to the use of something different like a CT. The CT shines in the rain. I have experienced / watched many examples of this. One I recall ... riding on wet roads in hard curves running a very good pace. Went through a curve under pretty heavy throttle, but the guy behind me got sideways pretty quick. He was running a MT. I've seen it happen many, many times.

Something I've seen done, but have not seen photos in a long time. Poor water on concrete, run through it then do a u turn. Do this with both a type tires. The contact patch on the CT will be wider! At one time, many years ago, I had a photo of that experiment.

pidjones · Jan 2, 2020

It's simple - if you don't like them, you don't have to run them.

Ghost Rider 2 · Jan 2, 2020

I would suggest that Blacktop make a trip to Arkansas and follow Monk for a day. All you questions and concerns about a car tire will be answered. It took me several years to swap over. I was stubborn and did not think it would work. Now we sit at lunch and Monk tells everyone the stories about me not changing over. I am sure they are not for everyone but I am sold.

Arizona16 · Jan 2, 2020

Exactly what put me over the finish line! Heh...you were on those rides...

I hear a lot of theory regarding the dangers of CTs, but I've yet to see any real world evidence. I'm a believer! :wink2:

weengers · Jan 2, 2020

Read through the comments, it would appear I was wrong, oh the horror!
From the video author:
Mike Hunter
38-40 psi depending on your weight...I weigh 180 lbs. & I like 40....no floorboards...those are stock pegs with peg pucks on them....ride it like you stole it!!!!

Bluehighways · Jan 2, 2020

Kinda wish this had been left in the "General" forum. Moving it to the "Darkside" forum implies that it is "Criticism" rather than simply "Informative" for everyone, Darksider or not.
:nerd:

murf · Jan 2, 2020

Moving the “Darkside Tail Of The Dragon” video to the Darkside board doesn’t imply criticism at all. It was moved there because that’s were it belongs. Threads pertaining to car tires will be moved to the Darkside board. That is clearly stated in this paragraph which can be found under “Darkside Riders.” I call your attention to the sentence in red.

“The owners of this website does not endorse the use of "any" car tires on a motorcycle. This board has been created so that there is no confusion that the owners of this site does not recommend, advocate or encourage the use of car tires on a motorcycle. All car tire threads will be moved here.”

Sladep · Jan 3, 2020

Impressive performance by that CT. Can anyone point to a post describing those peg feeler mods done? Would keep from having to replace the whole peg assembly.

weengers · Jan 3, 2020

Not a post but a product, Peg Savers.
http://www.pepsx.com/products.html

blacktop · Jan 3, 2020

Do racing motorcycles use car tires on a track. If not then why not? If they do then why vs motorcycling race tires?

Big_Bird · Jan 3, 2020

Just some thoughts of stuff that might be in play, no expertise:

They lean further.
Perhaps some sponsorship things in play.

BTW, when I did a track day with my Goldwing, CT was prohibited and would have failed tech inspection. Not sure if the engineers had a say in that. The lawyers certainly did.

Andy Cote · Jan 3, 2020

I watched this video as well:

I know it's a K1600 but still dragging parts.

Dabutcher · Jan 3, 2020

Thanks for sharing. Peace. D

Bullet Bob · Jan 3, 2020

I think what @blacktop is questioning is not the contact patch of a C/T running down a flat road but rather what it drops down to when in a corner, which I think is a legit question. M/T 101 says a M/T maintains a constant 'patch' whether running straight or in a curve. But let's face it, as we all know, a C/T raises one side or the other in a turn. Let's say you've got 5" running flat. What does that drop down to in a turn? Legit question. Not to put words in blacktops' mouth, but I think that was what he was asking, right?

blacktop · Jan 3, 2020

Yes this is it exactly. Thanks for putting those words in my mouth.

Bullet Bob · Jan 4, 2020

Gotcha'. I was thinking wide instead of total surface area. Thanks! :bow:

Offcenter · Jan 4, 2020

I'm running a Austone Taxi tire on my Gl-1500.
About 8,000 miles on it so far.
Love it!
Rode The Dragon with it this past July.
Dragged the foot pegs a couple of times.
No problem at all keeping up with the others in
my group who were riding a variety of bikes.

RonK · Jan 4, 2020

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You'd better take care of that Austone. I don't believe they're available anymore. I've been using them on my Road Stars (as they were the only ct's that would fit), for the last 150,000 miles. I usually get 25,000 miles on them.

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MountainRider · Jan 5, 2020

If you go to the sticky "Car tire pix", posted by Rail, there's a picture of the comparison between a MC tire and car tire contact patch. I don't know if that's the picture Monk was referring to or not. Based on that picture, even if the car tire contact patch was reduced by half in a turn, it would still provide a larger area attached to the road than the MT.

Monk · Jan 5, 2020

That is very similar! :thumbup:

Borrowed from @Rail32

Tracing of wing on side stand . A car tire only gets a larger contact patch while under a load while cornering . A bike tire does not flex.

networkguy3 · Jan 5, 2020

Friction

Have we all forgotten that the friction between two surfaces is not dependent on the contact area? It is dependent on the coefficient of friction and the force applied. Of course that no longer applies when the materials involved cannot handle the shear forces exerted.

JoeHall · Jan 5, 2020

networkguy3 said:
Have we all forgotten that the friction between two surfaces is not dependent on the contact area? It is dependent on the coefficient of friction and the force applied. Of course that no longer applies when the materials involved cannot handle the shear forces exerted.

Hmm, I woulda thought it's dependent on both the contact area AND friction & force applied. Does it have to be one or the other?

Bluehighways · Jan 6, 2020

IMHO a well written article on the subject.

I don't think it is likely to change anyone's position on the use of CT's (or not), but I think it is a good read.
.

RonK · Jan 9, 2020

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The article has some points of knowledge that explain why some aspects of several types of tires are designed. I applaud that the author didn't try to ram down the reader's throat that mc tires are superior and one is a fool not to stick with them. I would mention just several observations. First, when showing the tire contact areas it shows the ct having the same flat amount as a mt. That would have to be an awfully skinny ct. Second, he shows damaged tires in photos. Notice they're all mt's. And finally, there is no mention that of all the recommended sources and results, there are none from anyone showing actual field testing. That's called research testing or anecdotal evidence. What we have on these Darkside sites are hundreds of field tests. Also, not mentioned that the Gold Wing or other cruisers don't lean 45° and don't get to the limits he's illustrated.

To my knowledge the only rejections heard from anyone not staying with a ct once they've tried it, is that it "felt different and they didn't like that." Hardly a death blow! Of course if one is not happy with the "feeling" then it's fine to reject using one in the future. Never one of tire failure positively attributed to the tire being a non-designed bt.

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Darkside Tail of the Dragon Video

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