I've watched the bagger races for a few years now. Only Indians and Harleys have been entered.
It would be interesting to see a Goldwing entered to race.
It would be interesting to see a Goldwing entered to race.
Bagger Racinng - No Goldwings Yet
EasternSP
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It would be for sure. Those bikes are putting down 170-180 hp at the wheel naturally aspirated. Not sure a goldwing could get anywhere close to that. K1600 wold be a good contender as well.
A Gold Wing in bagger racing is not likely to happen.
AFAIK, bagger racing is limited to 2-cylinder engines. You may recall the early days of superbike racing; 2-cylinder Ducatis and BMWs were contenders until Japanese 4-cylinder engines of the same displacement began producing more power than twins, because of the 4-cylinder engines being able to rev higher. More cylinders = more power if engine displacement is equal, according to an engineering research paper published by Honda (in the 1960s, I believe.). Because of this inherent 2-cylinder engine power handicap, sanctioning bodies allowed 2-cylinder manufacturers a 20-percent increase in displacement. That’s why we has 1200 cc 2-cylinder Ducatis racing against 1000 cc Yamaha, Kawasaki, and Suzuki superbikes.
To see six cylinder 1800 cc Gold Wings racing in the bagger series, the rules would have to do something like: 1). allow the 2-cylinder racers a displacement increase; or 2). force the Gold Wing engine to be “sleeved down” to decrease its displacement; or 3). apply a “balance of power” remediation, such as adding weight to the race bike, in order to balance the Honda’s performance with its competition.
But, yes, watching a Wing in bagger racing would be fun.
For those unfamiliar with bagger racing, YouTube videos are showing races at Daytona, and the commentator stated the Indian and Harley race baggers were hitting 185 mph on the straight.
Tim
AFAIK, bagger racing is limited to 2-cylinder engines. You may recall the early days of superbike racing; 2-cylinder Ducatis and BMWs were contenders until Japanese 4-cylinder engines of the same displacement began producing more power than twins, because of the 4-cylinder engines being able to rev higher. More cylinders = more power if engine displacement is equal, according to an engineering research paper published by Honda (in the 1960s, I believe.). Because of this inherent 2-cylinder engine power handicap, sanctioning bodies allowed 2-cylinder manufacturers a 20-percent increase in displacement. That’s why we has 1200 cc 2-cylinder Ducatis racing against 1000 cc Yamaha, Kawasaki, and Suzuki superbikes.
To see six cylinder 1800 cc Gold Wings racing in the bagger series, the rules would have to do something like: 1). allow the 2-cylinder racers a displacement increase; or 2). force the Gold Wing engine to be “sleeved down” to decrease its displacement; or 3). apply a “balance of power” remediation, such as adding weight to the race bike, in order to balance the Honda’s performance with its competition.
But, yes, watching a Wing in bagger racing would be fun.
For those unfamiliar with bagger racing, YouTube videos are showing races at Daytona, and the commentator stated the Indian and Harley race baggers were hitting 185 mph on the straight.
Tim
I learn'd something new today.......Thank you
theyre hardly baggers beyond having a set of bags clipped to a full racing chassis. beyond that, why not? if someone wants to race toothpicks, have at it.
I just watched a Cycle World (magazine) video on YouTube with motorcycle technical writer (considered THE technical guru of motorcycle journalists) Kevin Cameron on the topic of bagger racing. His explanation on why it’s interesting and growing in popularity is because spectators like novelty, and fans have/are growing tired of MotoGp and World Superbike racing.
My take is bagger racing is today’s motorcycle version of Trans Am car racing of the 1960s and ‘70s. The bagger race bikes “resemble” street bikes people can buy and can therefore identify with the Harley and Indian brands, very much like it was for NASCAR in the ‘50s and ‘60s.
Bagger racing is simply motor racing entertainment, just like tractor pulling or 18-wheeler truck racing is in Europe. Unlike MotoGp and World Superbike, the baggers lack all the high tech rider aids, such as launch control, anti-wheelie, traction control, etc. So you’re watching “pure” rider skill. I’m a MotoGp and WSBK fan, but watched a bagger race from Daytona, and the 6 lap race was engrossing.
And pure, engineering race technology is there. Cameron said the behemoth 600+ lbs bagger race bikes were running faster laps at Laguna Seca than Eddie Lawson was running a 500 cc 2-stroke Formula 1 race bike in the 1980s!
Tim
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Because the guys wearing the pirate outfits pay big bucks to watch it and they are the majority at trailer (I mean bike) week.
Sportbike racing, not so much….
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They have to use a stock frame. The front forks, triple tree, rear swing arm/ suspension is custom pieces. Their 620lbs heavy rockets! Josh Herrin and I talked and said Honda should build a wing for the class, I told josh Honda may have ALOT of money BUT not that much! LOL. The class as is it now would have to totally change the class rules for 2 cyl, vs 6cyl engine.
thats kind of suprising, i wonder if they use the entire stock frame. the bike i saw didnt resemble mine at the rear area. i know theres a subframe in that rear area thats the difference between trikes and bikes, maybe that was changed. no idea on my part, i just know the area where the swaingarm attaches didnt look factory.
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Don't forget last one to the Dairy Queen buys !!
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Two divisions Dino oil and synthetic oil divisions manual vs DCT. Man this could be big!!! lol
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Catheters not aloud, but you'll need someone to check.
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Handicap the Goldwing to prevent it from winning a Moto America race??? HAHAHAHAHA!!! Hysterical!!!!!!!
Sorry guys... the Goldwing will never be able to race bikes like those, regardless of money. There are 8 hurdles which cannot be overcome that prevent a Wing from ever racing anything other than another Wing.
1. The engine would hit the ground, and so you will never be able to attain the lean angles that the other bikes can. So you could never be competitive... at all. No matter how much horsepower you can find.
2. Shaft drive is completely useless for racing and is so impossible to ride fast that the only way you can compete on a shaft drive bike is to compete against another shaft drive bike. (Don't bother talking about "The good 'ol days when your Great Granpappy "Cooter" McHotshoe rode a '53 MotoFlapper 750 shaft drive and won a vintage race). I'm just talking about trying to enter a Goldwing in a MotoAmerica race against real modern racebikes. The "Lift on Gas" and "Collapse on Closed Throttle" of a shaft bike makes it impossible to maintain ground clearance at maximum lean angle.
3. Aside from the overall starting weight of the bike, the entire shaft drive assembly and required rear wheel and final drive adds so much weight you cannot overcome it. A heavy bike will simply not accelerate like one that is 15% lighter.
4. You cannot replace the wheels which weigh a ridiculous amount with racing wheels as they don't, and won't, exist. Lightweight wheels in racing are so much of an advantage, it's another one that can't hardly even be equated to horsepower gains. Anyone who knows anything about racing would pick lighter wheels over horsepower every single time. Acceleration in roadracing is the most important thing you can achieve and reducing the rotating/reciprocating mass is the easiest way to do that (it's also critical for maximum suspension performance and tire grip).
5. The new "Double Wishbone Suspension" is terrible for actually trying to go fast into a corner. While the new suspension structure is VASTLY more rigid than the older Wing, it has one great defect, which is that is maintains constant trail while braking and throughout the suspension travel range. As a result, it will never be able to get into a corner faster than a telescopic fork bike. Forked bikes have the fork dive while trailbraking which allows the bike to "Tip in" to the turn easily and go to the apex easily... then releasing the brake and opening the throttle extends the fork increasing trail and adding stability under acceleration. The only way to get the "new" Wing into the apex is to just enter the corner more slowly to avoid missing the apex.
6. You can't get wheels with diameters that will let you fit racing tires. DOA.
7. You can't get racing tires. DOUBLE DOA.
8. Racing organizations HATE bikes with cylinders that stick out the sides... when they crash they break open and oil the track down and ruin the racing for everyone from that point forward. Plus they flip all over the place (instead of laying down and sliding) making it way more dangerous for the rider and his competitors who happen to be nearby.
But you might petition Honda to start a new Goldwing Only Class called "WAR OF THE WINGS"!!! Where everyone had to run stock chassis and wheels to keep it "affordable"....
Sorry guys... the Goldwing will never be able to race bikes like those, regardless of money. There are 8 hurdles which cannot be overcome that prevent a Wing from ever racing anything other than another Wing.
1. The engine would hit the ground, and so you will never be able to attain the lean angles that the other bikes can. So you could never be competitive... at all. No matter how much horsepower you can find.
2. Shaft drive is completely useless for racing and is so impossible to ride fast that the only way you can compete on a shaft drive bike is to compete against another shaft drive bike. (Don't bother talking about "The good 'ol days when your Great Granpappy "Cooter" McHotshoe rode a '53 MotoFlapper 750 shaft drive and won a vintage race). I'm just talking about trying to enter a Goldwing in a MotoAmerica race against real modern racebikes. The "Lift on Gas" and "Collapse on Closed Throttle" of a shaft bike makes it impossible to maintain ground clearance at maximum lean angle.
3. Aside from the overall starting weight of the bike, the entire shaft drive assembly and required rear wheel and final drive adds so much weight you cannot overcome it. A heavy bike will simply not accelerate like one that is 15% lighter.
4. You cannot replace the wheels which weigh a ridiculous amount with racing wheels as they don't, and won't, exist. Lightweight wheels in racing are so much of an advantage, it's another one that can't hardly even be equated to horsepower gains. Anyone who knows anything about racing would pick lighter wheels over horsepower every single time. Acceleration in roadracing is the most important thing you can achieve and reducing the rotating/reciprocating mass is the easiest way to do that (it's also critical for maximum suspension performance and tire grip).
5. The new "Double Wishbone Suspension" is terrible for actually trying to go fast into a corner. While the new suspension structure is VASTLY more rigid than the older Wing, it has one great defect, which is that is maintains constant trail while braking and throughout the suspension travel range. As a result, it will never be able to get into a corner faster than a telescopic fork bike. Forked bikes have the fork dive while trailbraking which allows the bike to "Tip in" to the turn easily and go to the apex easily... then releasing the brake and opening the throttle extends the fork increasing trail and adding stability under acceleration. The only way to get the "new" Wing into the apex is to just enter the corner more slowly to avoid missing the apex.
6. You can't get wheels with diameters that will let you fit racing tires. DOA.
7. You can't get racing tires. DOUBLE DOA.
8. Racing organizations HATE bikes with cylinders that stick out the sides... when they crash they break open and oil the track down and ruin the racing for everyone from that point forward. Plus they flip all over the place (instead of laying down and sliding) making it way more dangerous for the rider and his competitors who happen to be nearby.
But you might petition Honda to start a new Goldwing Only Class called "WAR OF THE WINGS"!!! Where everyone had to run stock chassis and wheels to keep it "affordable"....
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