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I just recieved a Bushtec hitch for my soon to be 2012 Blue level 3. (Supposed to be coming 7-20-11 from Larson Cycle,Cambridge,MN)I was surprised to see the reciever to be so long.Has anyone already installed and pulled with one of these?How did the install go?Any pictures of it installed?I currently have a 2001 with a hitch doc hitch and the reciever is halve as long.Did bushtec use the same hitch and just lenghten the reciever??
 

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hitch

Jobhod,
Remphoto posted this:
http://mysite.ncnetwork.net/res8tr14/bushtecv2trailerhitch/index.html

From your photo, it appears that all they did was lengthen the receiver to clear the new tail fender of the 2012. This reduces your mechanical advantage (longer lever arm for the trailer).
Just test it out carefully and make sure to get 15% of the total weight on the tongue.
 

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So, can I take my hitch off my buddy's 06 and reinstall it on his new 12 after he purchased just a new reciever?
 

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Bad vibes here! A longer receiver seems like it would put an unbalance of weight on the hitch and frame, too much down force on the coupler would seem to exert more downward force on the rear of the hitch. It seems it could cause a different pivot angle and possibly make the front end of the Wing a little lighter. I am not a rocket scientist or an engineer, but I have a bad feeling about this situation. :(
 

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Bad vibes here! A longer receiver seems like it would put an unbalance of weight on the hitch and frame, too much down force on the coupler would seem to exert more downward force on the rear of the hitch. It seems it could cause a different pivot angle and possibly make the front end of the Wing a little lighter. I am not a rocket scientist or an engineer, but I have a bad feeling about this situation. :(

:agree:
Looks like a law suit waiting to happen.
 

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With the ball plate being nearly a foot long, the conversion to foot/pounds is fairly easy. When the bike hits a 3 G bump and is pulling a rigid draw bar heavy camper, the moment around the longeron weld to the triangle plate will be very high. I would suggest caution on rough roads and railroad track crossings until some time has been accumulated on this version of the hitch to know how well it lives in this environment.

It does not matter whose hitch fails and causes an accident, it affects us all that manufacture trailers and related components. I hope we do not see a problem here.

Honda Stylists (as opposed to Honda Engineers) have done a disservice in this extravagant extension of the aft end of the bike. It goes hand in hand with the poorer depth perception taillight which will likely cause more rear end collisions, and the removing of the chrome in the headlight cavity where almost all of the side light is reflected from. From the side at night, this bike is going to be hard to see, and seeing the deer in the bar ditch will also be more difficult at night. Since I have hit 9 deer on bikes, mostly at night, I am sensitive to this issue. Very glad I got a 2010.

Honda's aim with this bike is obviously to make it cost less. Probably 25% fewer body parts.
 

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Anyone using the Bushtec hitch yet and pulling a Bushtec with their 2012 Gl1800 ?? I've finished my install, pulls like a dream.
 

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SO who has crashed and burned already because of this new long arm hitch? is it really as dangerous as predicted?
 

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Kitesurfer

The last thing any of us want to see or hear about is anyone having an accident. We hope it does not happen.

However, if you were to take that long cantilevered design to MIT, or Georgia Tech or any structural dynamics design firm and get it and its environment reviewed, it would likely be highly criticized.

I spent 40 years in the design of aircraft. Not many second chances in aircraft design. People die when the design is bad in aircraft.

I think it is safe to say that Honda did not give the compatibility with trailer pulling of their new creation for 2012 a second thought. The aft extending saddle bags was done in the name of styling only.

Moving the hitch ball aft is definitely in the wrong direction from a handling dynamics point of view, and certainly from a bike structures point of view as well.

Not only that, but there is a hint of problem with the bike itself at high speed, and it is likely caused by aerodynamics of the new body shape. You can see a note to that effect from Fred Harmon.

I was behind a 2012 on our TTT as it got caught in the wake of a tank truck semi, and the response to the wake was what I would call severe.

From this thread, I would like to see riders adopt a position of caution rather than indifference.

We do not make or sell hitches or motorcycles. However, I am keenly interested in motorcycle-trailer rig rider safety. A rash of accidents with motorcycles pulling trailers is the very last thing I would ever want to see.

Good luck to you and I hope you have many happy and safe miles with your rig.
 

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I had a friend about 4 years ago who needed a slightly longer ball plate for his Wing because he had custom light bars at the bottom of the saddlebags and needed the longer ball plate so the trailer connector would clear the light bars....anyways he called Bushtec and talked to John Preston who was in charge of Bushtec at the time and Bushtec told him just about the samething that Tom is saying now....and we were only going to add .75" to the length of the standard Bushtec ball plate, and Bushtec at the time was saying that was too long....now they made it quite a bit longer than that and say it's OK....I guess it is or they wouldn't sell it...right :shrug:


Anyways, against Bushtec advice at the time, I made up a up a .75" longer ball plate for my friends Bushtec hitch so he could pull his camper, but I made it out of thicker steel and instead of just welding the square tubing on the top of the hitch plate and just relying on a fillet weld like Bushtec does with their ball plates, I counter sunk the square tubing into the 1/2" thick hitch plate so the square tubing could be welded to the ball plate at the bottom of the square tubing as well as the top. My friend had it chromed and it worked perfectly with his camper.
 

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Who is doing the designing?

I always wondered who is behind the designs, and makes the structural decisions at Bushtec, now that all the Prestons are out of the picture?

Wonder what credentials their engineers have?

We all know about Tom's background.

Like Tom and Frank mentioned, the new 2012 hitch seems odd, and a little clumsily thrown together?
 

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Roadie,

I don't know what model Bushtec hitch you were working with, but their earlier hitch, the V-1 is stronger in the area that I am most concerned about than the V-2 with its mechanical joint on each side of the loop.

I modified my 04 bike when new to be able to use the V-1.

My 2010 bike has the V-2 but I figured by the end of six years that if the weld joint had failures that they would have beefed it up by now.

Nevertheless, that foot long bar will apply a lot of downward rotating torque to the weld joint at the triangle plate on each side, when the bike hits a railroad track or other sharp upward bump when the rider is pulling a heavy camper with their short rigid drawbar. That is the event that I believe will likely fail the hitch if it does fail.



Not only will that joint suffer, but the whole rear bike frame will have a far higher load with this longer moment arm.

You were pretty wise in plunging through the plate to weld in the bottom, even though that square hole must have been a bit hard to do.

Even though I bought my third Bushtec hitch for the 2010, there are some annoying things they do that show little understanding of their own products.

It appears that, at least on mine, they put the weld seam of the receiver on the forward side because it is easy to do. There are holes in three sides of the receiver tube. Left and right side for the through pin to lock the mount post in place, and the aft side where they put the weld nut for the slack take up.

It is hard to drill through the weld seam, so they just put it on the forward side where there is no hole. Problem is that the mount post then is pushed forward by the slack adjuster and it rests on the seam, not a flat surface.

So side loads wag the mount post like a dog's tail as it rocks on the raised seam, and it then scrubs the aft surface where the slack adjuster is bearing on the post. It takes very little time for that to become loose, and then another adjustment. On my 04, it needed adjustment each tire change and once in between.

After about 200,000 miles on my 04 with the V-1 hitch, the adjuster wore a hole all the way through the post. Looked like it had been shot with a .357 armor piercing.

Now it may have gone twice as long if they had just rotated the mount post on the ball plate so that one of the two adjacent thick sides was aft. That is too simple. To turn it with one of the two adjacent thin sides aft just is too much fun to aggravate the user.

The reason there are two thin adjacent sides is that they mill off a portion of two adjacent sides to make it smaller than an inch and a quarter so it will fit inside the inch and a half receiver tube with the weld seam on the inside. Seems like a good idea. Just why the H**l don't they turn it the other way?

I guess we all need to be like the cowboy in the old movies, and hide and watch.

Thanks for your post.



I odered a new one for $90 and, you guessed it. Same way!!!!!!!!

 

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you guys are talking over my heAD! BUT MANY DO...so...it don't look good on paper. Would pulling a lighter trailer have less effect than a heavy trailer? my 3rd grade educations and logic tells me tongue weight is the issue...Tom, your trailers are over engineered compared to the harbour freight trailer. but the harbour freight trailer works but not with the efficiency your trailer works (and style). I'm hoping this 2012 hitch issue will only be like the hf trailer, as in it works but not as good as it could if designed differently. I bought the 12 to trailer. i ordered the bushtec hitch yesterday. my insurance is to always wear full armored gear as i've done for the past 10 years. i'll also add a little prayer ever time i pull the trailer. if anything comes up on these issues, i hope it's posted.
 

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jobhod;338734.Did bushtec use the same hitch and just lenghten the reciever?? [URL="http://gl1800riders.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29810&d=1310824428" said:

Can some one answer this qustion for sure?
 

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While it is related to weight, it is the pitch inertia that loads the hitch when hitting a bump like a RR crossing with the bike.

As an example, if you had two 100 pound anvils and loaded them over the axle of a zero hitch weight trailer with a 3 foot tongue, the hitch weight would still be zero and the pitch inertia would be low.

If you then put one anvil 3 feet forward of the axle and the other 3 feet aft of the axle, hitch weight would still be zero, but the pitch inertia would be high.

If the tongue was 6 feet instead of 3 feet, the reflected inertia would be about half of that of a 3 foot tongue.



The patented Duoflex drawbar of the Tailwind has inertia relieving kinematics to reduce the pitch inertia of the trailer and contents reflected to the bike.



The Tailwind body has the deepest part of the floor between the axle so that the ice chest, (anvil) is located with minimum inertia loading of the bike.



At the Harrison, Arkansas, gathering one year, a fellow had a trailer with and extended tongue, really extended, by probably 10 feet. He took a bite at the pitch and yaw stability problem. Down side of that was that when he did a sharp turn at low speed, the trailer was almost 90 degrees to his side and really pulled him sideways when its wheels hung in pot holes, etc.
 

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I made my own hitch from a B-2. I made new sides on the receiver part and moved it rearward as far as I could. I then added another set of straps connecting to the receiver head. I then used the original receiver, after slugging the internals of the receiver, because of the B machining process leaves this piece very limited in wall thickness. Tom Finch has shown all of this in pictures. After welding, I moved the hole to raise the receiver strap to where it just clears the fender. This gave me the same ball height that I had on the 07.
 

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What is the length from the center of the rear wheel to the center of the ball?

At first glance, I believe I'd rather bob my fender off (and have a back up if not towing) than offer the trailer that much more mechanical advantage over the bike & receiver...and that's only looking at it from an "up and down" stand-point. There will be more torsional forces applied to the receiver & mounts. I would guess it would be detectable when starting off from a dead stop without the trailer in-line with the bike.

Other than the ability to get out past the fender, I don't really see anything good here and from the sounds of what I'm hearing, the front-end of the '12 can't stand to be any lighter while underway. The weight shift to the rear probably isn't much good for the marginally weight-rated rear tire either.

I don't assume that any company has an engineer on-board or retained one for a project. You may be in the process of performing their R&D for them and just don't know it. Many company's liability insurance is "the key is under the mat, it's all yours" when an bad event happens. Unless it's an LLC, they'll just walk away from it leaving you holding the bag. You have to be a "too big to fail" corporation to even think about having comprehensive product liability insurance.

The design criteria may have been..."if there is no hitch for the new bike, we can't sell them trailers". Similar things happen every day. Don't assume anything.

Z
 

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A very good friend bought a 2012 and ordered a Tailwind. We agonized over the unreasonable aft overhang of the body.

The solution we came up with has the ball in the same place as the older 1800s with the 6" drop Rivco. Simply used the old 2001 Rivco Hitch and 6" drop bar. Compare it to the new Rivco Bar that extends aft several inches.



It is likely that a similar thing can be done with the Bushtec, but we have not had another 2012 in the group that also has a Bushtec Hitch.




We all just got back in September from a 3,500 mile TTT and Lens rig did well. It was certainly eye catching. Beautiful color.

 

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On the Rivco hitch, did they redesign the hitch to move the receiver out close the new location of the fender or just extend the tongue?

I really like the Rivco hitch for the previous generation Wing but if they only changed the tongue for the new model, I wouldn't give them any brownie points either. Regardless of the configuration, the ball is still too far from the wheel center for my liking.

All change is not growth, as all movement is not forward. ~Ellen Glasgow



Z
 

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the more i see, the more i read, the more i want a tailwind trailer. but i am going to force myself to wait for it. this impulsive buying has cost me a lot in the last 4 years. i just keep moving my retirement date :)
 
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