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I've spent the last two days testing the ECM reflash from Guhl Motors on my 2012 to see if I can duplicate the cold start stumble, and I can't make it happen now under any circumstances. I've tested it down to 40 degrees, and have started the bike totally cold and immediatly ridden it within less than a second after starting the engine, and the bike absolutely will not stumble or hesitate in the least. I believe they have resolved it. The bike feels like it is pulling a bit harder at low RPMs in the lower gears, and feels like its throttle response has slightly improved as well in the lower RPMs.

If you have a 2012 - 2014 bike, and are having problems with the cold start stumble off idle, they are offering the same reflash I have to resolve this issue. It makes some changes to both ignition timing and fuel mapping in the lower RPM ranges that resolves the lean issue that causes the bike to stumble when cold. This reflash makes the bike run very similar to the 2006-2010 bikes. The cost of the reflash is $375 and includes express one-day return shipping of your ECM back to you, and it is currently available now.

Additional maps for the GL1800 will be made in the future as they plan on putting a GL1800 on the dyno to see what additional performance can be gotten out of the bike, which will probably happen in the next month or so. I will post more info as the project moves forward.

The web site for Guhl Motors is:
http://www.guhlmotors.com/

And their address is:

Guhl Motors
4126 Oregon Pike.
Ephrata, PA
17522

I have NO vested interest in this other than wanting to help to facilitate this project to happen, because it is something I think will offer some unique benefits to GL1800 owners that has not been previously available.

 

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Is there any such thing as emission certification? If so, is there any issue with doing such an update?

I see on the Honda site that the wing "Meets current California Air Resources Board (CARB) and EPA standards".


Not trying to throw wet blankets, just wondering.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Is there any such thing as emission certification? If so, is there any issue with doing such an update?

I see on the Honda site that the wing "Meets current California Air Resources Board (CARB) and EPA standards".


Not trying to throw wet blankets, just wondering.
You'll have to make up your own mind if that matters to you or not. The very small amount of changes in just the lower RPM ranges should have little, if any, effect on overall emissions. And besides, any unburned fuel in the exhaust will get consumed in the catalytic converters. I think you're worrying about something that is a non-issue.
 

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That's GREAT! I think I am going to hold off for a while to see what some of the different mapping results are. Don't need more power, but a few extra MPG's might be nice, without losing the present power. Will be doing a flash for sure though, hate the stumble.
 

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Do any states actually test the SMOG on a motorcycle?? I think its a non-issue and would be worth it to rid yourself of a running problem.
 

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Thank you for sharing this information. My 2012 still stumbles if I don't rev the engine. But since I CAN rev the engine, I'm going to hold off and see if the price comes down or Honda offers a recall. I would, on the other hand, GLADLY pay $125 for the reflash service.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thank you for sharing this information. My 2012 still stumbles if I don't rev the engine. But since I CAN rev the engine, I'm going to hold off and see if the price comes down or Honda offers a recall. I would, on the other hand, GLADLY pay $125 for the reflash service.
Don't hold your breath waiting for a price drop. This is actually a discounted price. If anything, it will go up in the future.
 

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I will pay their price gladly if any of the new maps squeezes a few more MPGs at cruisae
 

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If I had a 12 or newer with a stumble I'd be all over this in a heart beat!!

Get the bike right for about the retail price of a set of tires?.. are you kidding?
Whooaa.. that is a BARGAIN!
.. some guys have sold their bikes over this.

thank you Fred …. thank you thank you!!

Dennis
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Would this void the factorly warranty?
Obviously if you bring your bike in for a warranty claim on the brakes and the ECM has been reflashed they aren't going to deny a brake repair claim. So it isn't like the entire warranty on your bike is suddenly voided. And under the law, a manufacturer can only void or deny a specific claim if they can prove that a modification was done that caused the problem you are filing a claim for. So while they might attempt to deny something, the burden would be on them to prove the problem was caused by changes you made.

However, if a change is made in the ECM programing that caused the engine to run too lean, and it burned a hole in the piston, then that repair would be on you. Which is why Don Guhl takes great care in how he tunes vehicles, and is extremely conservative in his tuning. And by the way, all the changes to the ECM mapping in this GL1800 ECM reflash were to make it richer, not leaner.

And about the fuel mileage question. Typically a safe factor for leaning out an engine for fuel economy would be about 2%. This would equate to about a 2% increase in gas mileage. And 2% of 40mpg equals .8 mpg. Would you really be interested in an engine tune that gained you less than a mile per gallon? I know I wouldn't. But having said that, when you tune an engine for better performance, you normally will also get a slight improvement in fuel mileage as a side effect if both the ignition and fuel maps are optimized. More power generally means the engine is working at peak efficiency (but not always). We won't know how much of a difference it makes till Don gets one on the dyno, but it might be possible to see a 2mpg improvement, but I wouldn't hope for much more than that.

Also, make note of the sticker on the ECM that says "Racing Use Only". This should answer any questions about EPA certification.
 

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87 octane ?
 

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Certainly something to think about. If the re-flash doen't impact how a Honda Technician Scan Tool reads the data stream (and I be really surprised if it did) and Guhl would leave his labels off the ECU, I seriously doubt that there would be any sort of warranty risk. Still . . . $375 isn't exactly cheap . . . thanks for the post and the information. Good stuff. I have access to the Fuel and Ignition maps on my Harley; and very minor tweaks can make significant changes in the performance and the personality (if you will) of the bike. I'd imagine that HMC might wonder how he managed to get Level 5 access . . . LOL!
 

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Hey Fred, thanks for all your work on this. My 2012 has had the cold stumble problem which showed up at a little over 1000 miles. I was wondering if he puts the sticker on the reflashed ECM (like in your picture), if so, I think I'd remove it. I don't think any Honda dealer is going to know the ECM has been reflashed, and you won't have to worry about them denying the warranty because of it. Just my 2 cents!

:thumbup:
 

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For $350, I'll sell you an electronic timer. :lol:

Set it for 1 minute, start your engine, and wait for the timer to beep before moving off.

For those who need a little more reassurance, the timer can be set to 1~99 minutes, as you require.

These timers are available at any Dollar Store for, you guessed it - $1.

ps. I've never experienced the hesitation problem mentioned.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
ps. I've never experienced the hesitation problem mentioned.
Well, that explains a lot. One member on here already dropped his bike because of it, and several of us, including myself have had close calls. Also, warming the engine up before taking off does not always prevent it. Some bikes will stumble even after the engine is already warm. It usually happens at the worst possible time, when you are pulling out of your driveway and trying to turn, and right in the middle of your turn, the engine just dies for a second or two. If you ever had it happen to you, I believe your opinion would be different.
 

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Well, that explains a lot. One member on here already dropped his bike because of it, and several of us, including myself have had close calls. Also, warming the engine up before taking off does not always prevent it. Some bikes will stumble even after the engine is already warm. It usually happens at the worst possible time, when you are pulling out of your driveway and trying to turn, and right in the middle of your turn, the engine just dies for a second or two. If you ever had it happen to you, I believe your opinion would be different.
I'm sure a little throttle and clutch would fix any situation... you got to know your bike.
 

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Well, that explains a lot. One member on here already dropped his bike because of it, and several of us, including myself have had close calls. Also, warming the engine up before taking off does not always prevent it. Some bikes will stumble even after the engine is already warm. It usually happens at the worst possible time, when you are pulling out of your driveway and trying to turn, and right in the middle of your turn, the engine just dies for a second or two. If you ever had it happen to you, I believe your opinion would be different.
+1 Exactly!

For anyone who is not experiencing it, and particularly those who feel moved to chastise those of us who are . . . consider yourself D***d lucky . . . and BTW, using an Egg Timer might have been a reasonable work-a-round 50 years ago . . . but not today!
 
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