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2019 Darkness Black Goldwing DCT (1800BD)
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But there are times when you really need to control forward motion, gain gyroscopic stability and put pressure on the rear brake. With DCT all that translates to more throttle and apply brake. Seems like less tools in the tool box and a heck of a lot of pressure on the rear brake... and that engine cannot stall or you're in trouble. The problem is I would love to try it but would have to buy to know. Thanks for the video.

Chuck
Or is it the common approach of clutch, throttle, and rear brake is 1 tool too many? If you have to remove the 6mm allen nut, do you need the 5mm allen wrench as well?

If the problem can be addressed by 2 tools - then you only need 2 tools. You might want 3, but that is provably 1 more than needed. By definition.

By the way, the DCT will NEVER stall - that's the beauty of it. If the engine starts to lug, the clutch automatically engages. I've never heard of a case of a Honda motorcycle DCT stalling from the DCT lugging down the motor so much it died. Ever. Have you?

Can you stall your slushbox automatic in a car? Nope. Same with a DCT.

Now, you CAN stall a manual clutch motor, quite easily! I'm sure we all remember our first few jerks around a parking lot as we were learning to ride...:)
 

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You are right Glen. You certainly understand what I'm about to say. I was a science teacher for awhile, so bear with me as I try to explain what you just said. Though the GW has one of the largest engines in the industry, and thus has a greater "flywheel effect" than many other bikes, the direction of engine rotation does indeed make a difference. We're all familiar with the gyroscopic effect of spinning wheels. But we don't typically think much about that spinning engine. In science class we had al bicycle wheel attached to an axle with special handles. When spinning, it was very difficult to change the rotational axis of that wheel. However, there was practically no resistance to simple rotating the handles in our hands (picture the motion of turning a screwdriver). Great resistance in one direction, hardly any in another. This had to do with the plane of rotation, and it was easy enough to understand while we played with that spinning wheel. Our Goldwing engine spins longitudinally. Leaning left or right is not affected much at all by the rotation of the motor: hence very little effect on handling or stability. Now picture a large transverse engine, like the Kawasaki 1400. The crankshaft spins perpendicular to the forward motion of the bike. The rotating mass of it's engine will fight against leaning the bike. The faster the gyroscope is spinning, the harder it is to alter the plane of rotation. Same with an engine. More RPMs equal greater effect on handling, and greater stability (think riding with no hands). Our GWs, however don't do this as the engine spins parallel to the bike's forward motion.

The only difference would be revving the motor, which will indeed produce a left-right rocking motion. This has to do with thrust being applied to rotating mass. Remember studying acceleration and the laws of motion? Every action has an equal and opposite reaction: "gunning" the motor produces a twisting "reaction."
Most riders of us probably know all this stuff already, but just thought I'd have some fun in recapping some of the things I used to teach.
Sure do miss that classroom and those kids...
You're forgetting about the precession effect, and the rotation-about-vertical that occurs. A longitudinal rotation will try to rotate the bike left/right. See the page and video above. It's the same magnitude of force on the entire system, just in a different direction that most are familiar with. But that force is what then requires a counter-force, and provides the ability to stay upright.
 

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I am with you but we're against the wind on this one. With matching skills, I have trouble thinking that someone with a DCT has the slow-speed maneuverability, and confidence, that I do with a clutch. I think part of the issue is many just want to get on and ride. I don't know... not sure. As long as they are happy who can argue. Just ride...

Chuck
Here's a video I made in response to someone that made a similar claim.

 

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Here's a video I made in response to someone that made a similar claim.

That's cool. I just need to try one. Not to make excuses, but my brain is wired a certain way to be able to maintain control and stay out of trouble - and with most of us, we do it fairly well and without thinking, or we would not be able to throw an 800+ pound bike around like a bicycle. A test ride would help.

I do appreciate all the responses. Very interesting.


Chuck
 

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We are fearfully and wonderfully made and we are wired to learn incredibly complex new tasks without forgetting how to do the incredibly complex ones we already learned. The art of hustling a motorcycle down a twisty road or doing tight circles on a sloped parking requires our brain to make hundreds of calculations per second and our creator give us perhaps four score and 10 years of life to do them. Whatever one's choice would be we are endowed to continue learning for a lifetime.
 

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We are fearfully and wonderfully made and we are wired to learn incredibly complex new tasks without forgetting how to do the incredibly complex ones we already learned. The art of hustling a motorcycle down a twisty road or doing tight circles on a sloped parking requires our brain to make hundreds of calculations per second and our creator give us perhaps four score and 10 years of life to do them. Whatever one's choice would be we are endowed to continue learning for a lifetime.
Who can argue with that! Thanks.

Chuck
 

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I'm in process of finalizing the purchase of an '18 DCT. I have not ridden either version of the newer Wings. The DCT appealed to me more than the manual because I've ridden manuals all of my life and I thought it would be nice to let the bike shift itself. After watching many videos and reading the reviews of both, I decided on a DCT. I didn't see any complaints about either version, the DCT was just more appealing to me...
 

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Here's a video I made in response to someone that made a similar claim.

See?!?! And you can use your left hand to drink coffee when making super-tight figure 8s!
 

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The guy I know that had the lemon DCT Africa Twin had stalling problems. He would try to take off from a stoplight ect, whatever, and sometimes the automatic would engage too quick and the engine would die and he would be sitting there trying to restart and lucky to not have been run over. Dealers told him "normal". He was getting pretty tired of hearing the old and always predictable "normal" by this point, but when it locked up in 3rd gear, they really could no longer tell him that was normal operation and the lemon law came into play.
 

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The discussion about gyroscopic forces acting on a motorcycle... that affect it's handling... got a little too technical for most. Sorry 'bout that. So I'll not belabor the issue talking about precession, or forces required to overcome gyroscopic effect of a rotating mass. But I felt like Kevin Cameron touched on this about midway through this video: CLICKY HERE. Maybe it will help. He spoke only of this effect as it relates to transverse mounted engines like the typical 4 cylinder inline. But it did shed some light on the word precession.

That said, I don't see this as much of a factor with our beloved GW's. I don't have to be right here, it's just my opinion. But there is an issue that really matters. The bigger factor is the ability to increase and decrease speed quickly and easily while negotiating a tight corner at slow speeds. Rapid change of speed is always a factor when cornering. We all know this. Kudos to the comments above about being fearfully and wonderfully made. The ability to "do what we do" is truly amazing. Anyway, cornering speed is a big factor in cornering stability, and I believe it's much more so at really slow speeds. Our 8-900 pound beauty can become a real handful if for any reason we change speed quickly while she's heeled over. That said, this is where the clutch and it's friction zone makes it easy. Give her a little gas, and simply regulate more or less power going to the rear wheel with the clutch. We all know how to do this, and it works really well. However, the DCT isn't nearly as easy to deal with at these slow speeds, at least for me.

The biggest part of the problem is that I've learned my craft over the last 50 years. I've always done it the same way and am comfortable with utilizing the clutch to regulate speed quickly and easily at those slow maneuvering speeds. Most of us would probably agree.

Learning how to replace the clutch action with more or less braking... is a real challenge for me. Thus far, I've only succeeded in nearly dumping my beloved Ardent Red.

I thought it wise to point out this issue for anyone deciding on 6 spd or DCT. Whether or not slow speed maneuvering can be handled just as well by utilizing this new technique is not so much the question. I just wanted to point out that it's not easy for me. And with 50+ years of riding experience, it just seems likely that if I struggle with it this much, I won't be the only one. I'm guessing this is true as it's been discussed by many online reviewers. Even the sales staff at Honda warned me about it before handing me the key. Therefore it's a topic worth of mentioning here.
 
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