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Discussion Starter #1
Since we have been jousting about with each other and Max a bit of late I will mention something I re-learned yesterday. During a ride on lonely back roads I came upon a work area where the old pavement had been ground way by one of those huge rotary pavement grinders. That part of the job was complete and they were getting ready to begin resurfaceing. I drove about 18 miles on that rough linear pattern. Back when I had OE suspension and even when I had fresh wear parts with Progressive springs front and rear plus brace and good tires and full pre-load system; that stuff really made the bike tend to wander to and fro. Not too bad if you could keep the speed up to 45 or more, but still kinda unpleasant. When I got the original level Full Monty, I noticed those ground surfaces no longer posed any problem other than not being smooth. Yesterday's ride reminded me and since our civil discussions were fresh, I even played on the rough stuff some from 25 up to about 50 mph and the Traxxion system with about 25,000 miles on it handled very predictably and was not prone to track the grooves (B'stones front and rear). With the previous two suspension set-up it would wander about quite a bit at those slower speeds.

prs
 

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I don't have Traxxon but I experienced the same difference on scraped roads and grated bridges too after I installed Centramatic balancers.
 

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Just curious prs. Did you have all balls both before and after the Traxxion upgrade so that suspension parts are the only thing that improved that aspect? I have noticed a change in such circumstances since the install of All Balls in the tree. A definite better ability to handle that kind of pavement. Stones front an rear as well.

Mind you, we can stay away from any discussion about "slow" steering with All Balls because I have none. Every wing I have ridden that does not have rollers handles "unplanted" if I can coin a word.

If you remember -- you loaned your brace to LarryM and then he to me. I did not see much if any advantage to having a brace and he found it to improve things considerably. He does not have roller bearings and I do. I wonder if the same thing occurred there.

Food for thought.
 

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I had this problem when I bought my bike new. It had the OEM tires on it Dunflops D250 worst tire I have ever ridden on. With the Metz 880's on it now at 44 PSI front and rear...this problem is almost 100% gone. I find that the style of tire tread is a big factor in if it will track in those groves or not.
 

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Just curious prs. Did you have all balls both before and after the Traxxion upgrade so that suspension parts are the only thing that improved that aspect?
Food for thought.
I installed the front and rear traxxion set-up on my bike, with a Kury Fork Brace. The fork brace was installed before the forks and shock from traxxion were installed. Slow speed turning, initial turn-in at high rates of speed, trail-braking turn-in, and high speed turns (100MPH+) were all improved.
After the traxxion, tracking was greatly improved. Both in a straight line and at full lean. I can go much faster through rough roads, flicking it left and right quickly. It really keeps things planted. With stock suspension, I was bouncing all over the place on rough roads.
BTW, I have a set of all-balls in my garage somewhere, and if I ever feel the need to change out the stock ball bearings, I might actually take a chance on the roller bearings and give it a try.
 

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Tread design....

I had this problem when I bought my bike new. It had the OEM tires on it Dunflops D250 worst tire I have ever ridden on. With the Metz 880's on it now at 44 PSI front and rear...this problem is almost 100% gone. I find that the style of tire tread is a big factor in if it will track in those groves or not.

Bingo! I have a brand new D250 front tire looking for someone that does not care about groove tracking issues. The tread line running down the center will track any imperfection in the road. I describe it as the front tire "floating" all over the place. Make that line shift a bit side to side and the tracking issue is reduced. To get ride of it entirely, get ME880's. Even a bone stock bike will ride better on a ground-down road with ME880's on the front. Also, an Iron Grate bridge rides more like asphalt....

This "tracking" phenomenon can even exist in a car if the tires have several straight line sipes around the tire. The tread characteristics and how bad the road surface is grooved both play a role in how bad you feel it.


Bad: DD250
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Better:
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Best: ME880, E3

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Bingo! I have a brand new D250 front tire looking for someone that does not care about groove tracking issues. The tread line running down the center will track any imperfection in the road. I describe it as the front tire "floating" all over the place. Make that line shift a bit side to side and the tracking issue is reduced. To get ride of it entirely, get ME880's. Even a bone stock bike will ride better on a ground-down road with ME880's on the front. Also, an Iron Grate bridge rides more like asphalt....

This "tracking" phenomenon can even exist in a car if the tires have several straight line sipes around the tire. The tread characteristics and how bad the road surface is grooved both play a role in how bad you feel it.


Bad: DD250
..|
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or

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Better: G709
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Best: ME880, E3
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I agree. Metzler fan here:yes1:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Waldo;

Unfortunately, I did not get to ride the bike with tapered steering stem bearings before the Traxxion modification. My bike was not and is not a wobbler and the OE bearings seemed fine to me. But, you make a good point and the simple bearing change may accoutn for some good bit of the Traxxion package's improvement. I am with you on the fork brace impressoin, I honestly could not consistently state if the brace was locked or loosened (my son randomly either loosening or tightening the center section) during slow manuevers or any kind of riding. I think I was less than 50% accurate and toward th' end of the experiment I cheated by listening for the slight rattle of the loose center. That was with the Kuryakyn unit, but I see no reason why I would do any better with my Traxxion brace, which is on my bike now for better or worse. Max once inferred that if you can't notice the difference, then you were an unskilled rider -- I guess I am an unskilled rider.:shrug: I'm no Ricky Hayden for sure.

prs
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I had this problem when I bought my bike new. It had the OEM tires on it Dunflops D250 worst tire I have ever ridden on. With the Metz 880's on it now at 44 PSI front and rear...this problem is almost 100% gone. I find that the style of tire tread is a big factor in if it will track in those groves or not.
Lots of good riders give the Metz good reviews. I tried one set and I must of gotten the worse set ever moulded. Right from the get-go they were as noisy as nylon muddler tires. They rode really posh and comfy, but the grip was no where near as good as B'stones or Avon Venom R. And my Metzeler Marathon ME 880's with the "G" on them did follow linear flaws in the road, one particular one that I often crossed was really spooky if not alert to it and the Avon's (both Venom and Cobra) "ignored" it entirely. There had to be something odd about that set of Metz. The ones I used on the VTX were very good indeed.

prs
 

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Before buying my first Wing, I rode a friend's Wing for a ten mile test ride. I then put the wife on for the same ten mile ride and was asked, "When are we getting a Wing?" That was the beginning of the end of the Harley population in the garage.

When the decision to purchase the new 2006 Wing with ABS was being formulated in January 2006, I stumbled upon this forum. I read until my vision blurred and then read some more. I read about the slowing down wobbles, the antique anti-dive system and some other suspension issues that slip my mind today.

I also read about the Traxxion equipment. There seemed to be a lot of praise for the product from high time posters on this forum that were using the product. I elected to purchase the complete system of the day and have the Honda dealer install "completed fork tube assemblies" and the Traxxion modified Honda rear shock along with all the other farkles.

The dealer spent over a month setting up the bike. I took delivery and I noticed that the suspension seemed strange (compared to my H-D experiences). The problems continued to worsen, so I called and talked with Max. I verified tire pressures in the Metzler 880 tires and that there appeared to be no play in the all-balls bearing area. We chatted more and he suggested I go to their specialist in Santa Monica.

I arrived at the specialist and he started to take a 30 minute test ride. He got about 500 yards and returned, stating that there was someting seriously wrong. He pulled the cover over the gages and inspected the top of the triple tree. He discovered one fork tube was an inch higher in the tree than the other. The Honda mechanic had not properly tightened the bolts (maybe during a coffee break or a weekend closing he forgot where he was working) on the fork tubes as well as the Kuryakyn fork brace. That was not the only Honda dealer accessory installation error I discovered after riding the new bike awhile.

After properly setting up the suspension, the driveability issues disappeared.

I had the first front end suspension service done by the Phoenix area authorized service rep and the second done at Traxxion in Atlanta after Wing Ding in Greenville, NC. At that service, I replaced the Traxxion modified Honda rear shock with the Traxxion designed rear shock. I had the rear spring rating increased 100 pounds (at least it was the next stronger spring). That made for a better ride for two up with trailer behind. The third suspension service will be done this fall by the Phoenix rep and he will install the new Traxxion front fork brace while doing the service.

With 000004.5 miles on the 2010 Wing, I trailered the partially dis-assembled bike to the Phoenix rep and a complete Traxxion system with stronger rear shock spring was installed. I trailered the bike home after the suspension work was completed. After installing all the trim and electrical "modifications" myself, I took the bike into an independent local shop to have the tires changed from Dunlop 250s to Dunlop E3s along with CentraMatics wheel balancers (at 80 miles on the odometer).

All my personally owned Gold Wing experience has been on a Traxxionized bike and I have throughly enjoyed every mile.

I even tried their front fork conversion on a Harley CVO Classic to try and subdue the tank slapping issues. That was not enough to overcome the Harley chassis design issues I experienced and that bike was sold as I did not wish to endure another tank slapper experience.

YMMV
 

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I would offer that although the tire tread design will have some effect on tracking on these types of road surfaces, the front end wandering is primarily due to the flex and lack of ridgidity of the front forks and OEM setup. You can demonstrate that flexing on the stock set-up by moving the forks almost an inch either way at highway speeds and noticing that there is minimal or no change in effect to steering. Though a fork brace will help resolve some of these issues, nothing completely eliminates fork flex with the exception of the installation of Traxxion's billet triple trees. Its a pretty amazing change in the front forks and handling characteristics.
 
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