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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
A miserable first snow appeared on the ground today, so I decided to catch up on the youtube MCrider channel for his usual safety tips and sound advice. Even if you're an experienced rider, a bit of recap is always time well spent. In this vid (at 10:50), he mentioned that ABS equipped bikes reduce the incident rate by about 38%.

This was news to me, and I found the high numbers to be a bit difficult to swallow. Looking more into it, I found a published report stating that ABS bikes reduce fatal crashes by 37%! Google found many such reports and articles to support the claim. MCrider also mentioned that about 80% of riders believe their ridding skills to be above average, so I guess every bit helps keep us on the safer side of enjoyment.

Although my 02 Wing is ABS equipped, I didn't seek that as an option while looking to buy and didnt think much of it at the time. So far, I've been fortunate not to require hard braking during my rides and always maintain awareness, personal limits and safety distances. I tested the ABS initially before buying the bike (105mph down to 25, while applying more and more pressure to test wheel lockup). I was probably at max decel by 75mph and didnt let up till 25. WOW!! After allowing them to cool, then again from around 65 down to 5mph and was duly astounded at their effectiveness. This bike handles and stops really well for a tank! SOLD! I still test them from time to time to make sure they are working properly, while practicing my riding skills in the parking lots, and they do indeed slow the fat girl down in a hurry without drama or misgivings. If my Wing wasn't an ABS bike, I wouldn't sell it to acquire them. But given the significant reduced probability of a fatality with bikes so equipped, I will certainly make it a priority during my next purchase.

Sorry, but I wont be testing them in the snow any time soon. Needless to say, Im sure many of you already have several times! :grin2:
 

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WOW! thank you for taking your time to give us this speech!!! TRUE'rrr words were never mentioned............Thank you again! This is a wonderful "wake up" call for us all!

I have a very good friend that "thinks" nothing will ever happen to him, I have stopped riding with him, cause he's way too fast for me, passing a long line of cars, all the time and speeding... Everytime were out together, and riding crazy, he always getting stopped by the police for speeding, BUT ALWAYS GET'S AWAY WITH IT :crying: I'm hoping that a cop will give him a ticket, BEFORE, anything thing worse happens to him.. I'm actually surprise that he hasn't crashed before this! All's I can say is that I true'ly wish him luck, because I have a bad feeling that his "luck" will be coming to an end very soon...............

Gary, if your reading this
: Please my friend, slow down, we love you, but you can't keep riding like you do, and expect to live, without an accident, that could occur, any time..:frown2:


Ronnie
 

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LAST 2 BIKES I'VE OWNED HAD ABS. USED IT 3 - 4 TIMES . = SAVED MY AZZ !! IMOP SHOULD BE STANDARD NOT OPTION ! LIKE THE 2018 /19 ARE NOW.:wink2:
 

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My Yamaha Tenere has ABS and it saved me from hitting an elk and going down in the pouring rain out in Idaho a few years ago, even if I didn’t get hurt bad that Alaska trip would have been ruined. I will never buy another bike without ABS.
 

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In a panic situation, I cannot imagine me trying to analyze every inch of pavement while maximizing my braking effort. All it takes is one "life saving event" to be convinced that ABS is an awesome feature to have on such a huge/heavy m/c. I too have never bought a new one without it. If trailering, for me it is a must have feature.
 

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I know that most Wings never see a dirt road, but mine does at times. There have been a few times when I wish I could turn off the ABS. Each time was coming down a fairly steep hill with some loose gravel. Obviously, rear brake only, to keep front wheel from washing out. When the rear ABS kicks in, you got nothing. The rapid pulsing of the system seems to make it worse. Each time, I was able to downshift to 1st to slow it down, but serious pucker factor. Tried using front brake, once. Front wheel got squirlly.

On pavement, I love ABS.
 

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Saved my Bacon twice over the years!
 

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I know that most Wings never see a dirt road, but mine does at times. There have been a few times when I wish I could turn off the ABS. Each time was coming down a fairly steep hill with some loose gravel. Obviously, rear brake only, to keep front wheel from washing out. When the rear ABS kicks in, you got nothing. The rapid pulsing of the system seems to make it worse. Each time, I was able to downshift to 1st to slow it down, but serious pucker factor. Tried using front brake, once. Front wheel got squirlly.

On pavement, I love ABS.
I totally agree, and it is even worst when in steep, gravel, turns :surprise::surprise::surprise:
 

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Very good video and a lot of useful information. However I'm one who disagrees with the 37 percent reduction in fatal crashes, this is a arbitrary number based on very small studies and then passed around in different reports. It's not based on real world data.

This is not to say that I can brake as fast or as controlled as ABS, nor is it to say it isn't a good thing. Lofty claims was made about ABS in the auto industry too years ago, but after decades of real world crash data, it was determined that ABS had zero affect on fatal crashes.

It's a great tool to have, but like the video said the most important piece of equipment is the nut connecting the seat to the handle bars.

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Very good video and a lot of useful information. However I'm one who disagrees with the 37 percent reduction in fatal crashes, this is a arbitrary number based on very small studies and then passed around in different reports. It's not based on real world data.

This is not to say that I can brake as fast or as controlled as ABS, nor is it to say it isn't a good thing. Lofty claims was made about ABS in the auto industry too years ago, but after decades of real world crash data, it was determined that ABS had zero affect on fatal crashes.

It's a great tool to have, but like the video said the most important piece of equipment is the but connected to the handle bars.

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"it was determined that ABS had zero affect on fatal crashes."

I'm confused about this statement. How could they count the number of times ABS prevented a fatal crash, or for that matter, any crash??

No one reports near misses.


Thanks,

Rayjoe
 

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WOW! thank you for taking your time to give us this speech!!! TRUE'rrr words were never mentioned............Thank you again! This is a wonderful "wake up" call for us all!

I have a very good friend that "thinks" nothing will ever happen to him, I have stopped riding with him, cause he's way too fast for me, passing a long line of cars, all the time and speeding... Everytime were out together, and riding crazy, he always getting stopped by the police for speeding, BUT ALWAYS GET'S AWAY WITH IT :crying: I'm hoping that a cop will give him a ticket, BEFORE, anything thing worse happens to him.. I'm actually surprise that he hasn't crashed before this! All's I can say is that I true'ly wish him luck, because I have a bad feeling that his "luck" will be coming to an end very soon...............

Gary, if your reading this
: Please my friend, slow down, we love you, but you can't keep riding like you do, and expect to live, without an accident, that could occur, any time..:frown2:


Ronnie
Me thinks that your friend needs more than ABS brakes to keep him alive. Maybe an Intervention :grin2: is in order! I hope he follows your advice.
 

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"it was determined that ABS had zero affect on fatal crashes."

I'm confused about this statement. How could they count the number of times ABS prevented a fatal crash, or for that matter, any crash??

No one reports near misses.


Thanks,

Rayjoe
By Analyzing real world crash data, near misses are not reported, even when it's on a non ABS motorcycle.


"Abstract

Fatal crash rates of passenger cars and vans were compared for the last model year before four-wheel antilock brakes were introduced and the first model year for which antilock brakes were standard equipment. Vehicles selected for analysis had no other significant design changes between the model years being compared, and the model years with and without antilocks were no more than two years apart. The overall fatal crash rates were similar for the two model years. However, the vehicles with antilocks were significantly more likely to be involved in crashes fatal to their own occupants, particularly single-vehicle crashes. Conversely, antilock vehicles were less likely to be involved in crashes fatal to occupants of other vehicles or nonoccupants (pedestrians, bicyclists). Overall, antilock brakes appear to have had little effect on fatal crash involvement. Further study is needed to better understand why fatality risk has increased for occupants of antilock vehicles"



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Me thinks that your friend needs more than ABS brakes to keep him alive. Maybe an Intervention :grin2: is in order! I hope he follows your advice.

I seriously doubt that will happen, I've been riding with this gent for many, many years, and all these years, "off he goes" passing everything in site, I mean long lines of traffic, on not only the legal passing zones, BUT also, on NON LEGAL passing on windy roads, where it's impossible to see any on coming vehicles... 80/90 mph speeds, quite often....Anyways I have stopped riding with him,as often, but when I do I just let him go, and hope for the best...Quite often, as I round a corner, I see a blue flashing light, and sure enough, a police car has him pulled over....But he always seems to talk is way out of a ticket/I don't know how but he does!! BUT I guess a police officer, stopping him is still better then seeing him under a tractor trailer....

Ronnie

Me, I will continue to ride nice and slow, and enjoy my ride!
 

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About 30+ yrs ago while attending a bike rally BMW had a demonstration about ABS on their bikes. One bike was outfitted with outriggers on it and the other bike had none but was equipped with ABS.
They had a fire hose that was flooding a long stretch of concrete and had the bike with the outriggers on it speed down that area and brake very hard and the bike flopped down on the outriggers. Same test on the bike with abs and no outriggers and it had no problem coming to a controlled stop. Very impressive demonstration.
 
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About 30+ yrs ago while attending a bike rally BMW had a demonstration about ABS on their bikes. One bike was outfitted with outriggers on it and the other bike had none but was equipped with ABS.
They had a fire hose that was flooding a long stretch of concrete and had the bike with the outriggers on it speed down that area and brake very hard and the bike flopped down on the outriggers. Same test on the bike with abs and no outriggers and it had no problem coming to a controlled stop. Very impressive demonstration.
We've all seen videos of that demonstration, very impressive, but IMO a little misleading. The motorcycle in the demo was purposefully locked up. It would have been more impressive to me if it showed how much faster it could stop with the rider applying proper braking technique. It is the superior braking system, there was no need for the dramatic effect.

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By Analyzing real world crash data, near misses are not reported, even when it's on a non ABS motorcycle.


"Abstract

Fatal crash rates of passenger cars and vans were compared for the last model year before four-wheel antilock brakes were introduced and the first model year for which antilock brakes were standard equipment. Vehicles selected for analysis had no other significant design changes between the model years being compared, and the model years with and without antilocks were no more than two years apart. The overall fatal crash rates were similar for the two model years. However, the vehicles with antilocks were significantly more likely to be involved in crashes fatal to their own occupants, particularly single-vehicle crashes. Conversely, antilock vehicles were less likely to be involved in crashes fatal to occupants of other vehicles or nonoccupants (pedestrians, bicyclists). Overall, antilock brakes appear to have had little effect on fatal crash involvement. Further study is needed to better understand why fatality risk has increased for occupants of antilock vehicles"



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That "study" is typical of many "studies" I've read. It proves nothing other than more studies (read dollars) are needed in order to keep the study participants working. In other words, I don't have much faith in the results of government studies. I do have a gut feeling that ABS helps prevent locking wheels, that may otherwise result in serious crashes.

Glen
 
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