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Discussion Starter #41
Greg, could you go over the procedure of checking the oil pressure? I have a oem filter and would like to know what pressure I'm getting. I would like to monitor the pressure periodically and see if I have any changes occur toward the end of it's life span and the pressure with a new filter after an oil change. I would like to know where you are hooking your gauge into.
First is having a thread pattern to match the OPS's (oil pressure switch) threads. The kit I bought didn't have what I needed. The threads may seem to match the OPS, but will not screw in. I had to take my gauge to Amazon Hose in Tampa, and they instantly knew what the issue was and made the modifications required so my gage hose would screw into the engine case.

As for access ... the OPS sits above the oil filter. To access it the lower center cowl needs removed, its protective boot pulled away, and its wire removed. The remove the OPS and screw in your gauge, which can be done without removing the oil filter; however, it is much faster to remove the filter first. Before running an oil pressure test, be sure to check you oil lever.

To check the oil pressure, the oil needs to be at operating temperature. I always do mine on a center stand, in 'N", I wait for the fans to come on, and the reading is taken at 5,000 rpms. Depending on what year Service Manual you read it is either 76 or 78psi.
 

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Champion Labs make a lot of filters, very good quality filters so I would almost beat they make Honda filters. In the automotive filters not all are equal, I have cut a lot of them open and you would be surprised at how crappy a lot of the cheap filters are made
Super Tech (WalMart Brand) and Honda Oil filter.
SuperTech vs Honda Oil Filters01.jpg SuperTech vs Honda Oil Filters02.jpg SuperTech vs Honda Oil Filters03.jpg
I really like the Honda filter.
 
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Discussion Starter #43 (Edited)
Super Tech (WalMart Brand) and Honda Oil filter.
View attachment 370039 View attachment 370040 View attachment 370041
I really like the Honda filter.
Thanks for posting that. I believe you posted an example of an oil filter that is not cataloged for a 5th gen Wing. That means that the engineers who work for Super Tech, or whoever design their oil filters, are not recommending it for a GoldWing. It also appears that they make no oil filter for the PowerSports industry. The requirements for powersports must be very different they the automotive - Lt Truck world.
 

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Just ask your mechanic friends who do not work for a dealership
how many engines the RIGHT oil filter ever harmed. Buy a BRAND name from a reputable source and you will be find. Last wing had 173,000 miles on it and this wing 33,000 miles between them maybe 5 OE filters. My other bikes over The years probably less then 10 OE filter in maybe 500,000 miles not one filter caused engine problem. Cars and trucks same story, as I said before it there had been a great problem with filters I think I would have seen it because I made my living on building and rebuilding engines for all types of vehicles. But if you are like me a live a hour from a Honda dealer and a guy with what 5 examples of what in his opinion is a blanket across the board problem than you do what you think best. This guy is not drinking the koolaid.


The
 

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Just ask your mechanic friends who do not work for a dealership
how many engines the RIGHT oil filter ever harmed. Buy a BRAND name from a reputable source and you will be find. Last wing had 173,000 miles on it and this wing 33,000 miles between them maybe 5 OE filters. My other bikes over The years probably less then 10 OE filter in maybe 500,000 miles not one filter caused engine problem. Cars and trucks same story, as I said before it there had been a great problem with filters I think I would have seen it because I made my living on building and rebuilding engines for all types of vehicles. But if you are like me a live a hour from a Honda dealer and a guy with what 5 examples of what in his opinion is a blanket across the board problem than you do what you think best. This guy is not drinking the koolaid.


The
What caused the issues for the engines that needed rebuilding? On the basis of your post I hope your answer wouldn't include low oil pressure.

I usually buy OEM filters for my Goldwing from internet vendors along with other parts and supplies, but I'm not adverse to riding my Goldwing to the not so local Honda dealer to buy an OEM oil filter.
 
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Just ask your mechanic friends who do not work for a dealership
how many engines the RIGHT oil filter ever harmed. Buy a BRAND name from a reputable source and you will be find. Last wing had 173,000 miles on it and this wing 33,000 miles between them maybe 5 OE filters. My other bikes over The years probably less then 10 OE filter in maybe 500,000 miles not one filter caused engine problem. Cars and trucks same story, as I said before it there had been a great problem with filters I think I would have seen it because I made my living on building and rebuilding engines for all types of vehicles. But if you are like me a live a hour from a Honda dealer and a guy with what 5 examples of what in his opinion is a blanket across the board problem than you do what you think best. This guy is not drinking the koolaid.


As had as you try to be right.. your not going to be right, everyone has different experiences with different products. I’ll stay with a Honda filter and on my autos RP, Mobil-1 or any filter made by Champion labs. Wix, Fleet guard make a great filter.
 

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Pretty good example of a good filter vs a crappy filter from the media used and the bypass valve.
Pretty good example of a good filter vs a crappy filter from the media used and the bypass valve.
That is exactly where I was going with that example.
 

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Low oil pressure has in my experience been mechanical in nature with the exception of one build, on the run in oil pressure dropped to 0 within a couple of minutes. I totally tore the engine back down looking for the cause and found nothing, I then went a sample of the oil to be tested and found out that it contained kerosene and ash. This was too of the line break in oil from a major brand. Found out that a problem had occurred in the refinery and that one whole lot of oil was recalled, they played the entire bill for 2 engine builds and my customer got an engine for nothing. By the way we had a flow tested for checking all filters after run in, all filters were tested before and after run in and the difference in flow was the .micro particles from the build and then we cut the filters apart to check for particulates. On rebuilds we would always do the same if the engine no longer ran as this was the way to gauge the condition of the engine before teardown to give the customer some idea of the cost. I have never seen a loss of pressure due to an oil filter. The Wal-Mart filter seen above is not note have I ever said that I would use. What I was trying to say is you cannot say that all filters that are not OE are dangerous for your wing. Most of us have been there done that and you can get a bad anything. What makes me mad is there are new riders with their first bike that read this as gospel. If you are going to make a statement name brand, mileage, if the main bearings are shot, is the oil the right weight and was it contaminated if it was with what. Also find and report that brand x filter was found not to have this or that and here is the proof. Until such time I stick to my opinion use a BRAND name filter from a reputable dealer that is designed for your bike and you will be fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #50
That is exactly where I was going with that example.
Believe it or not, SuperTech is a popular oil filter on the forum here.
 

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Believe it or not, SuperTech is a popular oil filter on the forum here.
I wonder if the popularity of the Super Tech is due to the low price? They sell for under $4.00 these days.
Back when Honda OEM filters were selling for $6.95 each, if you bought ten or more, the Super Tech was under $3.00 each no matter how many you bought.
After dissembling the two filters I can see where Super Tech is saving money by skimping on quality and filter media.
 
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Discussion Starter #52 (Edited)
Update ... the only print on the oil filter is what is shown below. To Mr/Mrs google, it appears to be a Wix 92010 oil filter. According to Wix.com, the oil filter for a GL1800 is WL10000.


This is probably an example of using the oil filter Bill Bob, or Joe Six-Pack uses, or choosing one by length/width/thread type, or using a cross reference.

As for his clutch, the friction thickness is 0.152" which is healthy with no burnt plates. It appears he's been using a synthetic oil (late clutch grab noticed on test ride), but it can be cause by low oil pressure too. However, it been my experience late clutch grab is caused from using a synthetic oil.

As for the oil relief valves, both inspect good at this point. Eventually they will be disassembled, cleaned, and inspected further. There was nothing in either causing either piston to bind.

Although the air filter looked like it had about 12,000 miles on it, the insides of this engine show a completely different story. To me it is very obvious that this engine didn't get frequent air filter changes. Dirt is everywhere :( Hopefully most know that forensics is very hard to argue against.

Hopefully the take aways here are ... 5th gen Wings need air filter changes at least every 12k, the best oil for them continues to be Honda's GN4 conventional oil, and be sure to use an oil filter's manufacture's catalog with choosing an oil filter.
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Update ... the only print on the oil filter is what is shown below. To Mr/Mrs google, it appears to be a Wix 92010 oil filter. According to Wix.com, the oil filter for a GL1800 is WL10000.


This is probably an example of using the oil filter Bill Bob, or Joe Six-Pack uses, or choosing one by length/width/thread type, or using a cross reference.

As for his clutch, the friction thickness is 0.152" which is healthy with no burnt plates. It appears he's been using a synthetic oil (late clutch grab noticed on test ride), but it can be cause by low oil pressure too. However, it been my experience late clutch grab is caused from using a synthetic oil.

As for the oil relief valves, both inspect good at this point. Eventually they will be disassembled, cleaned, and inspected further. There was nothing in either causing either piston to bind.

Although the air filter looked like it had about 12,000 miles on it, the insides of this engine show a completely different story. To me it is very obvious that this engine didn't get frequent air filter changes. Dirt is everywhere :( Hopefully most know that forensics is very hard to argue against.

Hopefully the take aways here are ... 5th gen Wings need air filter changes at least every 12k, the best oil for them continues to be Honda's GN4 conventional oil, and be sure to use an oil filter's manufacture's catalog with choosing an oil filter.
View attachment 370104
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This looks like extend oil service and a break down of the oil making the Volitales in the oil evaporate causing this mess. Could synthetic cause this and the answer is yes with cheap low group synthetic oils, regular oils will cause this same issue inside any engine when they are not service properly And with quality oils, air and oil filters.
 
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Discussion Starter #55
I'm sure on this thread someone asked what oil pressures should be, but I cannot find who asked.

Below are notes from my last transmission/engine repair. Although Honda only gives one spec (76-78psi at 5,000 rpms, hot oil), I check and record under the following conditions.
  • cranking with spark plugs out, cold oil = 15psi
  • initial start up, cold oil, high idle (16-1,700rpms) = 68psi
  • hot oil (fans have cycled on), idle 730rpms = 14-18psi
  • hot oil 5,000rpms = 78psi
 
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