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Not that any of us would ride faster than the posted limit but, hypothetically, when wicking it up in twisties, how do you brake for turns?

I've basically heard of 2 ways to use the brakes. Brake hard just before the turn, release, drop down to apex and throttle out. Being off the brakes effectively giving you a little more ground clearance.

I've also been told to brake hard and into the turn releasing the brakes gradually until the apex, then throttle out. Stayin on the brakes until the apex keeps the suspension more stable.

X-racers, YW, whoever, give me some insights and opinions here, hypothetically :wink: Thanks
 

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Have your speed set before you enter the corner, it is much easier to control your bike with the throttle that with the brake.

If you follow some road racers, the entering speed maybe 1 or 2 mph slower going in but they are 5 or 6 mph faster on the exit do to being able to pick up the throttle much quicker creating faster straightaway speeds and faster lap times.

Roger
 

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Braking in a corner is asking for problems. I would suggest a advanced rider course and learn how its done, as opposed to getting information over the internet that can kill you. But, it that is you choice,...........
 

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If I'm riding hard in the twisties, I like to down shift and use the tranny to slow me more than using the brakes. Though I will use the front brake a bit.

I down shift just as I'm setting up for the corner and prior to hard leaning.
That way I have plenty of rpm's to pull me hard and fast out of the corners. I start to turn the throttle just as I've past the apex of the corner.

No idea if this is the "proper" way to do it, but with a little practice, it's a real blast.
 

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Well, I fit into the whoever catagorie so here goes. When riding aggresively I try to avoid braking hard into any corners. I prefer to have my speed adjusted before getting there and not run into a corner and slam the brakes. I do this by down shifting and or rolling off the throttle and draggin the brake if necessary then I roll into the corner with the engine about 4 grand. Once into the corner I fine tune my speed, if I'm still a little hot just ease up on the throttle and let engine braking do it's thing. If I'm too slow I just roll on the throttle. Either way, all speed corrections are done with the throttle. This is much smoother than switching from brake to throttle or vice versa.

Sorry IR Harry but I don't totally agree with your statement. Just because you learn something somewhere besides a classroom does not necessarily mean you are gonna die from it. There are some very skilled riders in here that have no formal training.
 

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I heard from a racer on the speed channel that one should brake into the turn as braking heats up the tires and throttle out of the turn. He said a common mistake was down shifting into a turn. I don't know, I don't race. I do brake into the turn, let off and accelerate out of the corner, bike seems to respond better that way.

Mike
 

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Styles differ but I would never downshift while going into the curve, like overbraking it can cause a momentarily loss of traction and kick her tailend out on ya. I really don't even agree though some do with trailbraking on the wing because of it's linked braking system. I like to have the revs up and be in the the right gear upon entry, then power out from the apex on to set or hook up the suspension. This method works great for me, few can hang with me. 8) Terry
 

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would suggest a advanced rider course and learn how its done, as opposed to getting information over the internet that can kill you.
I am sure eveybody means well with input but agressive driving is a skill that is learned and practiced. Having been a very agressive rider in my youth my body was more prepared when my backend went out from under me and I spun the bike with me underneath it.

If you have not already done so - Please take the beginers riding course. Even if you have been riding for years it is a great refresher. Then take the advanced reiser course. Nothing beats the added training of professionals.
 

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This is what I answered Paul when we first started talking about it yesterday:

trialsman said:
Your take, please, on something I read about riding aggressively.
Do not release brake as you enter turn because it upsets suspension, but rather continue braking, releasing gradually until apex.
Arn Butt said:
I guess that would depend upon how late you braked, how hard, and how much your suspension had to compress to respond to the inertia.

Ideally, you'll brake before the turn is initiated and enter the turn without braking load imposed on the suspension. Various G-forces will then be unleashed upon the suspension and rolling-on the throttle will help to elevate the suspension via the effect generated by the shaft drive.

Whether or not you feather-off the brake, if you enter the curve too hot you'll be sacrificing some of your available traction somewhere.
So I guess it's dealer's choice. But I wonder how successful one would be at feathering their brakes and rolling on the throttle since it's done simultaneously with the same hand.
In some scenarios it might be a technique that would save your bacon and I suppose that seasoned riders already do it instinctively, abeit with the rear brake...
 

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According to what was taught at the ERC course, you should be at your entry speed prior to the curve, corner, etc. That may mean just braking to slightly reduce your speed, or actually downshifting in order to keep your rpm's optimum. Braking or downshifting in the curve, if it's a really sharp curve is generally not a great idea. Braking prior to entry will set the bike up for greater ground clearance and traction. Downshifting merely slows the bike down.

Besides the above items to consider, there's also the need to use countersteering, adjusting your body position (I like to slide over on the saddle a bit in the direction of the turn in order to lower the CG a bit) and keeping your head level with the road--NOT LEVEL WITH THE BIKE! Using some sportbike techniques you can really make a GL1800 perform some amazing stuff--countersteering, hanging off the seat a bit, pushing down on the inside footpeg, and so on. Works for me.

I'm not saying this will work for everybody, but I've spent lots of time working on this technique. I suggest taking the ERC course. You'd be surprised what you'll learn from that. I was.
 

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What Galute was talking about downshifting and braking this is done prior to the curve and get your RPM set to around 3500 to 4000 this allow quick acceleration once you are into the corner. You keep your eyes on the exit of the curve and this will aid you in being a whole lot smoother. Being able to read the curve and never have to make a noticeable correction in the bike will greatly increase your exit speed. Slid off the seat like a road racer this reduces the lean angle allowing you to go through the corner at a greater speed. This takes a lot of practice to prefect.

Ride with a pro like YW and they can tell you what you are doing wrong and what you need to improve on. Be really careful with the brake after you enter the curve on the wing (linked brakes can get you in big trouble) if I feel I am too hot I will feather brake with the real brake while increasing the throttle. With the shaft drive this will shave off some speed and pick the front of the bike up just a tad.

To many people put to much stock in speed, I have rode with some really fast riders but they got there last because they lost so much time in correcting mistakes and trying to recover. I started riding with Galute 2 summers ago in the mountains of Ga and NC he was slow but keep working on his style and form now it is all I can do to keep up with him and sometimes I cant He is so smooth in the curves you never see his bike being pick up or push down in the curve because he misread it.

Work on being smooth and you will be surprised at the unbelievable exit speed you achieve
 

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I am certainly not a knee draggin Yellow Wolf and not the best or fastest out there but for what it's worth...after taking five MSF ERC's in the past 7 years, studying David Hough's Proficient Motorcyling, Redge Pridmore's Smooth Riding and practicing with about 50,000 of my last 80,000 miles spent in the twisty hills, this is what works for me... I will approach a turn at relatively high speed and brake with intent before entering the turn. I always use both front and rear brake siumltaneously as this stabilizes and sets up my suspension for my lean into the curve and provides near equal traction on both front and rear contact patches. I enter the curve from the outside at a speed where I can continually roll on throttle throughout the curve. I use the delayed Apex method that Hough recomends while Pridmore does not. I believe in the theory of maximizing my site distance through the curve as the best management of the risk involved here. The delayed apex also gets me the best "seat of the pants" feel and I really like that. Occasionally, I will find myself too hot in the curve and there, I will use Pridmore's trail braking method where he uses the rear brake deep into the apex. There are differing theories, however, it seems that entering the turn with a stabilized suspension at the proper speed (that which allows for continued throttle roll on) provides for the most fun for me.
Obviously, this is over simplified as bikes are all different with differing rider weights, tricked out suspensions, different tires and wear, etc., all of which is way the heck over my head.
I'm enjoying reading every one elses take here. Thanks Trialsman.
 

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Where is YW? I thought for sure he would be here by now....
 
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I had the privaledge of riding with an AMA teacher (sp2pilot here) and he got me off the transmission braking and into using the brakes themselves.
Brake technique he showed me was your first solution. It lets the bike power lift the front and gives a touch me clearance, heats the tires into the corner (as others mentioned) and atually adds to the control of the rearend of the bike.
I gained almost 5 mph in corners I'd felt maxed out in, and can eally tell the difference when done correctly.
Start slow and do the same area adding a few mph each time until you build confidence because it does feel entirely different.
Good luck.

Pat
 

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No bad techniques, just practice (a lot) and use whatever works for you...

Just whatever you do, if you get in over your head; Don't Panic and grab the brake. Bad things are guaranteed to happen.

An instructor told me once, "If you get into trouble, the throttle is your friend. It will get you out of 95% of the problems you get into, and for the other 5% it will end the suspense..."

:D :D

Stay safe,



Lance
 

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I suggest you pick up a copy of David Hough's "Proficient Motorcycling".Some very good info there.

He suggests that when you brake in the turn,you're weight shifts more to the front tire,so you will have less traction on the rear creating the potential for a slide out.

By cutting speed before the turn,and gently rolling on the throttle through the turn,you keep the weight evenly distributed on both wheels.
Too much throttle will shift your weight to the rear,reducing traction on the front.
 

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Everyone has their own technique. The ones with the best technique are the fastest.

Always remember the percentage game, You only have 100 per cent traction for each wheel, When you exceed that, you fall down. If your in a turn and are at 100 per cent traction and you add brake, you WILL fall down !!

If you gear down in a curve, it is important how you use the clutch in the process. Jerky can wreck ya !!

No magic in going around a curve, only good technique and use of a brain will do it.

JMHO 8)
 

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Something to remember, braking is always the most efficent when the bike is up right, also the bike is always fastest when the bike is up right and not powering thru a corner.

Trail braking is using the rear brake in a corner, it is hard to do. It will let you get the back end around quicker that way is shortens the corner and let you get up right quicker. Only a few can do it correctly, if not done right it can cause a high side. Don't ask me how I know. It can't be done correctly with linked brakes.
 

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As wehave discussed before Paul, I brake hard going in, set up and throttle hard and I amean hard going out of the turn. Works for me. I believe alot of people feel comfortable doing what makes them the most confident. I more than likely go thru a set of pads sooner than average, but it sure is fun.
 
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