GL1800Riders Forums banner
  • Hey everyone! Enter your ride HERE to be a part of MAY's Ride of the Month Challenge!

1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,943 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey everyone ... as some of you may know I've put a lot of miles on my 2004 Wing over the last 7 1/2 years when I bought it new (just passed 230,000) and I wanted to run a couple of issues by those of you that are mechanically inclined (I'm not) for comment.

1) Burning oil - I know with this many miles that's probably to be expected and I estimate I have to put in a pint (16 ounces) for every 1,500 miles I ride now. I see nothing show up on the dip stick at this point. I don't see mass amounts of smoke coming out the rear but the right side exhaust does spit out a lot of sooty oil that I notice on the garage floor during start up so I assume the rings on the piston are worn out. I started noticing the oil usage around the 190K point and now carry oil with me on road trips to add between changes. QUESTION: If I continue to ride it like this what will be the eventual impact besides the obvious to the environment. Will the engine eventually fail?

2) My fans have always worked fine and continue to come on when in heavy traffic on a hot day but I'm beginning to notice that they seem to come on all the time now when slowing to a stop even for a brief amount of time. Temp gauge is fine and is pretty much sits at the half way point while riding and the fans go off once moving. QUESTION: Is it possible I could have a sensor that is bad or is there some other reason possibly for this behavior.

Appreciate any input because I love to ride more than wrench.

Thanks

Donnie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,671 Posts
1. My primary concern would be for the oil that you are leaving on the road for the other guys to slide on. Otherwise, it may be valve guides, too. Do you park it on the side stand? If so, do you notice a cloud from the left bank when you start in the morning? If you do, park on the center stand - an old GL1000 cure.

2. Have you flushed the coolant system recently? They get coated with breakdown and corrosion products over time that reduce heat transfer efficiency. I wouldn't worry too much about them coming on after a high-speed run and then a stoplight. That is normal operation as you have built a lot of heat in the engine and all of the sudden you don't have air flowing over the radiator fins - so the fans kick on until that heat is removed.

BTW, I'm not a mechanic and have never been on TV. I work on cyclotrons and ride GoldWings.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
428 Posts
Check by placing a clean white rag over that exhaust when starting. Is more likely sooty water vapor, not straight oil. Or a small amount oil residue in the cold start vapor. If it were pure oil you would be adding tremedous amounts of oil all the time. KUDOS to you for keeping a close eye on your oil.

Also check the blowby drain tube near the front left cowling make sure it empty. If it gets full of water or blowby residue it will get sucked into the motor and could help cause those symtoms.

Oil consumption over a long period can cause carbon build up and plug fouling. A little techron in the fuel occasionally may get you some extra miles out of her.

As for cooling. Do the easy stuff first. Get a spray bottle and fill with Hydrogen peroxide and spray it into your radiators. Let sit awhile, few minutes, then flush with a hose (use pressure but not too much!!). You may just have alot of bugs and grime on the radiator fins.
 

·
GL1800 Doctor
Joined
·
20,603 Posts
All good suggestions, yes you could have a coolant temp sensor going bad, it's a 2 part toy and half runs the gauge, the other half "talks" to the ECM for the fan running. Have you noticed any differences with it's cold start running? Rough or lower rpm for warm up? This would be another symptom of a bad temp sensor. You also could just need new valve stem seals if the oil is getting burned mainly at startup.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,084 Posts
Oil ---

Donnie, Do you know that the crankcase

breather

system is not restricted? Or blocked?

And what do the spark plugs say?

Without more info ---- ?

Did you say the oil level is OFF the dipstick

in 1500 miles? Are you using 20W50 dino?



 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
18,687 Posts
The oil issue sounds like valve guides to me too. Worn valve guides allow oil to seep past them and "drip" down the valve stem when sitting. During warmup, it is burnt ... thus oil burning or blue exhaust during warm up.

As for you coolant. Have you removed the radiators and had them professionally cleaned? I am assuming all the simple stuff has all ready been checked. The older they get, the less effecent they become. At that age, that should be done as PM.
 

·
GL1800 Doctor
Joined
·
20,603 Posts
I think if the guides were worn too much you would have alot of valve train noise because the valves would be too loose and wobbly. The stem seals will let too much oil down the valves and into the chamber. The seals can be replaced without removing the heads and are alot cheaper than having the guides replaced. I'd try new seals first and see what it does. You should also do a compression test, that will show you how worn the rings are.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,943 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for feedback

1. My primary concern would be for the oil that you are leaving on the road for the other guys to slide on. Otherwise, it may be valve guides, too. Do you park it on the side stand? If so, do you notice a cloud from the left bank when you start in the morning? If you do, park on the center stand - an old GL1000 cure.

2. Have you flushed the coolant system recently?
1) I've only use the side stand for short durations and have always put it on the center stand the rest of the time. Never noticed any type of cloud of smoke when starting

2) All of the major coolant hoses were replaced around 200k as they had become brittle with age and the coolant was replaced then as well.

Check by placing a clean white rag over that exhaust when starting. Is more likely sooty water vapor, not straight oil. Or a small amount oil residue in the cold start vapor. If it were pure oil you would be adding tremedous amounts of oil all the time. KUDOS to you for keeping a close eye on your oil.

Also check the blowby drain tube near the front left cowling make sure it empty. If it gets full of water or blowby residue it will get sucked into the motor and could help cause those symtoms.

Oil consumption over a long period can cause carbon build up and plug fouling. A little techron in the fuel occasionally may get you some extra miles out of her.

As for cooling. Do the easy stuff first. Get a spray bottle and fill with Hydrogen peroxide and spray it into your radiators. Let sit awhile, few minutes, then flush with a hose (use pressure but not too much!!). You may just have alot of bugs and grime on the radiator fins.
Think you may be right about the sooty water vapor with some oil mixed in. I will check out the other items you mentioned ... especially the bugs in the radiator as that seems like a good possibility and something I haven't checked before.

Have you noticed any differences with it's cold start running? Rough or lower rpm for warm up? This would be another symptom of a bad temp sensor. You also could just need new valve stem seals if the oil is getting burned mainly at startup.
No ... it starts fine and warms up smoothly ..nothing rough about that process that I can tell.

Donnie, Do you know that the crankcase

breather
system is not restricted? Or blocked? And what do the spark plugs say?

Without more info ---- ?

Did you say the oil level is OFF the dipstick
in 1500 miles? Are you using 20W50 dino?
Using Rotella 5w-40 full Synthetic - Blue Jug. Will check the breather system. Not sure about the plugs.

The oil issue sounds like valve guides to me too.

As for you coolant. Have you removed the radiators and had them professionally cleaned?
Where are these value guides located? ... I assume you have to break the engine apart to get to them to replace or check.

Was a little low on coolant and I topped it off but I think you may be right about needing a through cleaning of the radiators at this stage

Thanks for all the feedback ... really appreciate it.

Donnie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,943 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Oil Check level


Did you say the oil level is OFF the dipstick
in 1500 miles? Are you using 20W50 dino?


No ... using Rotella full Synthetic 5w-40 - Blue Jug

Yes ... after an oil and filter change I check the oil level and it's registering just fine on the dipstick... but once I ride 1,500 miles and check the oil level again it doesn't even register on the dipstick. (little scary to say the least) Even waiting 30 minutes to make sure it has had a chance to drain back down into the case ... not a drop on the dipstick. Add about a pint and check again and levels are back up and look full on the dipstick.

Donnie


 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,084 Posts
using oil

Donnie, When the oil rings wear out oil

burning is the result. When the compression

rings wear out compression is less than

normal and blowby pushes oil vapor into

the intake. Ask a friend to swap rides and

watch your bike when started up and follow

your bike. I think you will see smoke.

At this stage I would change 20W50 however

repair or engine swap or trade seems prudent.








 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,874 Posts
A pint every 1,500 miles is a quart in 3,000. That still ain't bad. If the bike (or any vehicle) was in warranty and you complained to the manufacturer for a warranty claim, they would tell you that's within normal limits.

I would do a compression test and if it were in spec, I would just make a note to check the oil level every 3 or 4 gas fills and not sweat it too much.

For some people if you even mention that it burns a drop of oil they it lessens the bike's value. But as the engines wear, they start to open up and some oil burning does happen. And your bike does have 230K miles on it and it is still on the road, not dead beside it. So continue to enjoy it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,211 Posts
as the owner of a 01 194k, 07 118k, and a 12 with 3200 miles, the first thing I would do is remove the syn, and replace with 20w50 dino. This has already been mentioned and I second that recommendation. Also, when the 1800 goes off the dipstick, you are only at a third of a quart, that is not very much for that engine at that mileage. The radiators need a complete flushing procedure. Other than that just ride it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,070 Posts
As others have said, changing to a heavyer weight oil will reduce the leakage. The down side is that you will have slightly more friction so you may (or may not) experience lower mileage figures (if you even bother to keep that much of a check on them).

Does anyone have an opinion of switching to one of those "high mileage" oils from Penzoil or Quaker State? (Silly me, asking the people on this board if they have an opinion!) Those oils are suppose to have additives that soften and slightly swell old seals so they do a better job of preventing oil from seeping by them. Not sure if they have a blend acceptable for use in motorcycles. Just asking, so don't go all high order on my @ss! Replacing the seals would be a better idea if you have the time or money for that repair.

Cheers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,581 Posts
......Does anyone have an opinion of switching to one of those "high mileage" oils from Penzoil or Quaker State? (Silly me, asking the people on this board if they have an opinion!) Those oils are suppose to have additives that soften and slightly swell old seals so they do a better job of preventing oil from seeping by them. Not sure if they have a blend acceptable for use in motorcycles.....
Mark,

I think that your caution is well founded. If it were my bike, I would not be dumping any of those "high mileage" oils into the crankcase.....I'd be worried that one or more of the additives in those oils would wreak havoc on the clutch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
697 Posts
One comment.
You mention that the temp guage stays steady.
Honda (in fact most) temp guages are designed with a dead spot on center. The engine temp can vary over a fairly large range during normal operation and manufactureers like Honda have concluded that you do not need to watch those variations. The important part is that they are designed to register when the temp approaches the danger zone.

Point is that you can actually be running a bit hot and the guage would not indicate anything abnormal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,841 Posts
A pint every 1,500 miles is a quart in 3,000. That still ain't bad. If the bike (or any vehicle) was in warranty and you complained to the manufacturer for a warranty claim, they would tell you that's within normal limits.

I would do a compression test and if it were in spec, I would just make a note to check the oil level every 3 or 4 gas fills and not sweat it too much.

For some people if you even mention that it burns a drop of oil they it lessens the bike's value. But as the engines wear, they start to open up and some oil burning does happen. And your bike does have 230K miles on it and it is still on the road, not dead beside it. So continue to enjoy it.
+1. It does not sound to me like you have a problem. With 230k miles, a pint of oil usage in 1500 miles is nothing to worry about. You said you weren't sure about how long the plugs have been in there I think. If my bike had that many miles and was using a little oil like yours, I would be sure and change the plugs at 16,000 miles, as recommended, and not stretch it. That might even help with your little soot-in-the-start-up condensation water thing. That might be just soot out coming of the tailpipe. If you burn a little oil, you will have a little soot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,090 Posts
QUOTE:
Using Rotella 5w-40 full Synthetic - Blue Jug. Will check the breather system. Not sure about the plugs.


Has the valve clearence been checked recently ? If not I would have them checked. Also, if the plugs haven't been changed recently that is another thing I would do.

Also, it could just be carbon build up on the rings causing the burn, I'd go the easy route first. Get a couple cans of Seafoam and put a half can into the oil and the other half in a full tank of gas then ride the bike for that tank, fill it up and add another half can of Seafoam to the gas. Ride that second tank then change the oil/filter and plugs. If it is carbon build up, 300 - 400 miles with a half can of Seafoam in the oil will clean it and maybe free up the oil rings. For the price of two cans of Seafoam it's worth a try, definately can't hurt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,943 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Update - Aging 2004 wing - now 261K

I see my old thread here regarding my aging 2004 Wing has gotten some recent attention so thought I'd give an update on it since it's been over a year ago.

- My fan/temp problems with the bike went away late last year after I replaced the Water Pump that was leaking coolant out of the Weep hole and had gone bad. After fixing that and tightening a few hoses I've had no more fan or temp rising problems with the bike and it runs good and stays within the normal range at all speeds now.

- Bike has 261,386 miles on it now and I've taken it on several long road trips this year with no problems. It is still burning some oil so I now travel with a little jug to add some when it needs it and I check in more often between oil changes to make sure it stays topped off.

I currently have no plans to replace it and plan to continue to ride it for as long as she will go. There will be another Goldwing in my future at some point down the road but for now this one has proven to be one hell of a bike over the last 8+ years since I bought it new in March 2004.

Take Care

Donnie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,766 Posts
Don't waste your time with a compression test. It will tell you what your compression is, but thats all. And even then, its very subjective.

Find a shop that can do a leak-down test. It will tell you if the rings and/or valves are worn.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
18,687 Posts
I see my old thread here regarding my aging 2004 Wing has gotten some recent attention so thought I'd give an update on it since it's been over a year ago.

- Bike has 261,386 miles on it now and I've taken it on several long road trips this year with no problems. It is still burning some oil so I now travel with a little jug to add some when it needs it and I check in more often between oil changes to make sure it stays topped off.

Donnie
I am always amazed that a m/c will get this kind of life out of a motor. It says much about improved designs, better oils, and certaily the purity metals that are used. In the 70s, are Chrysler motor was pretty much worn out at 100k. It was also acceptable to use 1qt of oil every 800 miles according to Chrysler.
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top