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Discussion Starter #1
For those who claimed I'm a bit "Nuts", there is now photographic evidence. Actually, the mice :rat: (and their nuts) would have belonged to the previous owner, so maybe I'm off the hook this time.....:grin:


A new air filter and the screen trick on the inlets will fix the above issue.

Any chance that the restricted airflow (and subsequent possible vacuum) would cause all this oil in the airbox?


The oil up by the intake is really foamy. Not sure if this indicates anything other than air and/or moisture being pulled through it.

I do have a somewhat unrelated question: the bike stays revved between 2,500 and 3,000 rpm when the temps are below freezing (stays revved even after a half hour ride). A couple of folks have indicated it could be a miss-routed vacuum line with frozen water trapped in it. As deep as I am into the bike, I'm not sure where the vacuum lines might be. Could anyone point me in the right direction as to what I am looking for? I do have a service manual which I've started to dig through also to see what I might find.


Thanks much,
Mike
 

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If you pour in 4 qts instead of the recommended 3.9, it's possible that the extra oil could contribute some to the problem due to the oil frothing in the crankcase more from the overfull condition, though I can't say for sure if .1 qt would be enough to make a difference. High speed riding over long periods may also contribute to it.

It's "normal" to find some oil in the air box, as the oil rich vapors get sucked in from the crancase, and mix with any water that gets in the airbox from riding in the rain or condensation. That's why they put a drain on the airbox and tell you to check and drain the tube out occasionally.

I'd just clean it all up and not worry about it. I would also reccomend putting screens on the intake runners to keep mice out. I cut the bottom screen off an old air filter and use it to make screens.



 

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You definitely need a new CAT, or quit feeding the one you have so much. :lol::lol:
 

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Discussion Starter #4
If you pour in 4 qts instead of the recommended 3.9, it's possible that the extra oil could contribute some to the problem due to the oil frothing in the crankcase more from the overfull condition, though I can't say for sure if .1 qt would be enough to make a difference. High speed riding over long periods may also contribute to it.

It's "normal" to find some oil in the air box, as the oil rich vapors get sucked in from the crancase, and mix with any water that gets in the airbox from riding in the rain or condensation. That's why they put a drain on the airbox and tell you to check and drain the tube out occasionally.

I'd just clean it all up and not worry about it. I would also reccomend putting screens on the intake runners to keep mice out. I cut the bottom screen off an old air filter and use it to make screens.
The previous owner claims the oil was changed at the dealer. No way to know, but they probably wouldn't overfill. As you say, I'll clean it up and see how it looks on my next maintenance cycle.

I'd seen your wire trick a while back and definitely plan to block any further attempts those little critters might have to make a nest in my air filter.

I'd also like to say thanks for making the "entertainment" videos. I watched the air filter removal segment to make sure I wouldn't miss anything. It definitely helps to see what needs to be done instead of just digging through the manual and trying to figure out what they mean.
 

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As for your question about vacuum hoses, the only one I can think of to check would be the one that goes the fuel pressure regulator.

Engine idle speed is mostly controlled by the Idle Air Control Valve (IAC). There is a procedure for checking it in the manual (page 5-78 in the 2002 manual and 6-92 in the 2009 manual).

The IAC gets it's commands from the ECU based on a variety of sensors including coolant temp, IAT, Baro, and MAP sensors, amoung others. If the coolant sensor is bad, it might be getting fooled into thinking the engine is still cold even though it is fully warmed up.

The clogged air cleaner could also be messing up the MAP sensor readings. You might find that just replacing the air filter and doing an ECM reset procedure will cure the problem.
 

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Here is another thought I just had. There are two air ports for the idle air on top of the throttle bodies. I haven't looked where the intake holes for those ports are in the air box, but I suppose it's possible you may have sucked oil into the idle air ports. You might check them and make sure they are clean and free of oil residue. I don't know if it could have gotten in the IAC valve or not and damaged it, but I suppose it's possible. You might want to pull out the air box entirely and inspect everything real good and make sure the idle air ports and free of any restriction. Although you will probably have to remove the gas tank if you want to pull out the air box.

Though from what I can see, if the ports were clogged, that should make your idle low, not high. SO I might be sending you on a wild goose chase.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yea, I did some digging while eating supper and found the same pictures of the vacuum line under the air box, fuel section from 5-60 through 5-78. I also read about pulling the fuel tank to get the air box out (bummer that I have a full tank of fuel). Hopefully, I can get all this done without feeding the Black Hole Fraggles.

Having a full tank of fuel, I decided to work on wrapping the air intakes with the wire mesh instead. At least I'm accomplishing something while I'm procrastinating.:roll:

It does look like there are a couple of vent holes of some kind on top of the throttle body where all the foamy oil is. They look to be full of oil, so I'll clean it all up and see what happens. Considering that it only revs when the temps are below 30, I probably don't have anything seriously wrong from this angle.

The couple of times when the bike died though, the bike barely idled after getting is started. (maybe 300 rpm). That could be related to the plugged idle air ports you mentioned. Possibly 2 separate issues? :shrug:

Thanks for the help. :thumbup:
 

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Nuts and more

I looked at this post and thought, hmmmmmmmmmm as I found a mouse nest above the rear wheel. I pulled the air filter yesterday and OMG, I could not believe it. It is an '01 with 20K on it. I think I bought it this way. I did find the skeletal remains of the varmit though.
 

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I looked at this post and thought, hmmmmmmmmmm as I found a mouse nest above the rear wheel. I pulled the air filter yesterday and OMG, I could not believe it. It is an '01 with 20K on it. I think I bought it this way. I did find the skeletal remains of the varmit though.
Looks to me like ya should have extra clean air goin' into your bike, lots of extra "filter media" for it to pass through:wrong:!
 

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mice are a big issue with anything that sits more then a few days. My mom had her car towed when it stalled oun the highway and in traffic. The dealer found the air filter had a hole chewed threw it and a leaf was in the mass air flow sensor ! A few days later I was at her house and watched a chipmunk go into the front fender where the air box inlet is....... Decon put a stop to that , looked around the house found 15~20 holes in the ground so it wasnt a one man army!
 

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Regarding the high idle while cold; don't overlook the small stuff. Could be a throttle cable in a minor bind or even the inside rubber flange of the throttle grip rubbing its housing.

Let us knkow what you eventually find.

prs
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I looked at this post and thought, hmmmmmmmmmm as I found a mouse nest above the rear wheel. I pulled the air filter yesterday and OMG, I could not believe it. It is an '01 with 20K on it. I think I bought it this way. I did find the skeletal remains of the varmit though.
Wow Jwingkc :eek:, that sure was packed full. I can believe you found a skeleton, this looks like it could have been a lifetime task for a single mouse. Of course, they don't usually come in a one-pack, so it was probably just a little weekend getaway for the family.

Not sure if you've seen this trick of Fred's, but be sure to wrap the air intakes to prevent a repeat. The wrap material is the wire mesh from the back of the old air filter.
 

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Even though I normally don't suggest ECM resets for curing most problems, this is a case where I would give it a try before doing too much troubleshooting. Since the only purpose for resetting ECM parameters is for idle control, and this only happens at low temperatures, a reset may indeed fix the problem.

You have a lot more fluid sitting in that airbox than most people, but you obviously got a lot of water in there as well. Fred mentioned riding a lot in the rain, but even high humidity swings can cause it as well.

I agree that I doubt it is a problem. Just clean it up and put the new filter in.

Have you checked your oil to make sure it isn't milky colored? It is unlikely to be the problem, but a leaky head gasket could make the oil milky like that, and could also cause a vacuum leak which will cause the idle to be higher at certain temperatures. I only mention it because it is easy enough to check the oil.
 

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Open airbox drain and get rid of that crud every so often. I also used some automotive EFI-specific spray throttle body cleaner to get the black guck off the throttle plates and body bores..............just make sure to hold throttle open after reassembly while cranking to get some air in there and burn off the TB cleaner. It made a noticeable difference on my '04 Wing.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Even though I normally don't suggest ECM resets for curing most problems, this is a case where I would give it a try before doing too much troubleshooting. Since the only purpose for resetting ECM parameters is for idle control, and this only happens at low temperatures, a reset may indeed fix the problem.

You have a lot more fluid sitting in that airbox than most people, but you obviously got a lot of water in there as well. Fred mentioned riding a lot in the rain, but even high humidity swings can cause it as well.

I agree that I doubt it is a problem. Just clean it up and put the new filter in.

Have you checked your oil to make sure it isn't milky colored? It is unlikely to be the problem, but a leaky head gasket could make the oil milky like that, and could also cause a vacuum leak which will cause the idle to be higher at certain temperatures. I only mention it because it is easy enough to check the oil.
I did an ECM reset last night after the bike was back together. The drain hose was full of water (which I drained). I'll keep an eye on it.

I'll watch the fuel economy to see if the new air filter and ECM reset helps. The engine revving won't show up again till the temps get back below freezing. I've decided to wait till next winter to pursue this. There really isn't any point to go further until I see if the problem comes back next winter.
 

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Yeppers on the trick

Not sure if you've seen this trick of Fred's, but be sure to wrap the air intakes to prevent a repeat. The wrap material is the wire mesh from the back of the old air filter.
[/quote]

Yeah Shiver, I went to the hardware store and bought screen wire and plugged the holes as it were...I anticipate no more problems and expect my gas mileage will raise!

Thanks to all.
Jerry
 

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Had the same problem on a Kawasaki 650 Prairie quad......

You should see the snorkle system that critter had to navigate to get in there!

 

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Jwingkc
gotta say I have never seen that much pretty wild

hey guys click on that little picture and make it bigger pretty wild
 
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