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Discussion Starter #1
Been reading for a while, have a question I can’t seem to find the answer to. Run Flat vs regular tire.

Ignoring the fact of being able to drive with a flat tire, is there a reason to use a run flat tire? It seems to me that a regular tire with more pressure should ride smoother and handle a little better. Obviously you’re giving up the advantage of being able to slowly ride to the nearest gas station, but for sake of argument let’s ignore that for now.
 

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In my view,... A non-RunFlat, while stronger than a mc tire, (again in my view) if it blew out or went flat quickly at a high-speed would be more likely to be the cause of an accident before you could slow your speed.
 
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Only other reason I can think of would be the price, but my life's worth more than that. JMHO
 

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IMO, the only way you can make a standard CT work is to run it at higher than normal air pressure to take some of the flex out of the sidewall. I’d rather use a RF and keep the pressure down (28#) for better handling and a smoother ride.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
IMO, the only way you can make a standard CT work is to run it at higher than normal air pressure to take some of the flex out of the sidewall. I’d rather use a RF and keep the pressure down (28#) for better handling and a smoother ride.
What do you mean by higher than normal though?

I would think that the softer sidewall with, say, 36psi, would handle roughly the same as a non-run flat but be cooler running because you’re not relying on the stiff sidewall to support the bike.
 

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The standard tire has a much softer sidewall. I ran a Hankook 426, and at 36psi it rode fine, until I went into a corner. Then I would get a little shimmy. The run flat tires firmer sidewall emulates the feel of a MC tire, and as such can be run at lower pressures and not shimmy. Most run flat tires are designed to support the weight of a car without collapsing, so it is more than capable of supporting a motorcycle and getting you to the side of the road without crashing. If you pick up a nail in a regular tire, you'll not only get the flat tire wiggle as it goes down, but now you also have to deal with the added width and shape of a car tire, making things a lot more exciting.
 

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What do you mean by higher than normal though?

I would think that the softer sidewall with, say, 36psi, would handle roughly the same as a non-run flat but be cooler running because you’re not relying on the stiff sidewall to support the bike.
It varies but most car tires are supposed to run at 32# to carry the normal weight of the car and its load. A Gold Wing's weight is significantly less than a car so, to operate properly, the CT pressure should be set at fewer pounds, not more. I realize that some Wingers are running 36-38# in the CT's and liking the results. Good for them, but that tactic did not work for me because all I had was a worn out chicken strip in the middle of the tire in 8000 miles. I had similar results with darkside tires until I figured out that the tire pressure had to be reduced, not increased, in order to compensate for the lighter weight of the motorcycle. Now, I get much more even wear and 18,000 miles out of the rear CT. .
 

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I change my own tires. I've been doing it for years. The stiffest sidewall tire I have ever changed is the Dunlop E3 motorcycle tire for the Goldwing. Dunlop never advertised it as a run flat, but I suspect it would work like a run flat with a loss of pressure. I'm now running a Pirelli P1 run flat car tire on my '06 Goldwing with 41 psi. I ride solo and might weigh 200 lbs with all my riding gear on and after a stop at DQ. I didn't like the way the ride felt with less pressure. Riding an underinflated tire is more likely to damage a tire than over-pressure. A car tire's weight rating and pressure is based upon placement on a car, not a motorcycle. A car has four tires carrying the weight. A motorcycle only has two tires. In addition a tire on a motorcycle is subject to forces that differ from forces mounted on a car. Any assumptions about the load carrying capacity of a car tire while mounted on a motorcycle are based only upon anecdotal evidence and hence are only assumptions. One only needs to peruse this sub-forum to see the many differing opinions on what tire pressure is best. If you were using a motorcycle tire the recommended tire pressure is clearly printed in the owner's manual and on the inside of the lid of the rear top case. I personally don't care if I don't get 18000 miles on the P1 riding at 41 psi because the cost savings is relatively insignificant in consideration of all the other motorcycle related expenses I incur. The P1 is my first experience with the darkside. Other than the initial cost savings of the tire (again relatively insignificant in relation to all other costs and expenses) and the supposed benefit of a run-flat, I've experienced no great significant benefit of running a car tire. I actually dropped my '06 for the first time this weekend while stopping on the side of a road at the edge of the pavement and I suspect it was the car tire tottering on the pavement edge that pulled me over.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Here's my Non-Run flat thought.

Again, I admit this is ignoring the benefit of being able to ride a little ways without air to get to a spot to fix the tire.


Here's a video of a standard non run flat tire. It seems to work very well, and he's running 38 psi according to the comments. Wouldn't a RF tire's stiff sidewalls be fighting the flexing at steeper lean angles? I know it works both ways, as many many people here have thousands of miles on each tire. But it just seems to me that a standard tire with proper pressure would ride and handle better than a RF tire with less pressure.

 

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It varies but most car tires are supposed to run at 32# to carry the normal weight of the car and its load. A Gold Wing's weight is significantly less than a car so, to operate properly, the CT pressure should be set at fewer pounds, not more. I realize that some Wingers are running 36-38# in the CT's and liking the results. Good for them, but that tactic did not work for me because all I had was a worn out chicken strip in the middle of the tire in 8000 miles. I had similar results with darkside tires until I figured out that the tire pressure had to be reduced, not increased, in order to compensate for the lighter weight of the motorcycle. Now, I get much more even wear and 18,000 miles out of the rear CT. .
Tire pressure has more to do with how and were you ride. We don't all ride in the same environment and we sure don't all ride the same way. Both those factors have an impact on tire pressure.

Here is a Pirelli SnowControl with 5,108 miles of riding in the Ozarks its entire life. I ran it mostly at 38 PSI.

369562


As you can see the edges are gone ... and the center is passed the wear bars.
 

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I've got several old posts regarding CTs, run flat vs non.

Short version regarding above comments. More pressure in any tire makes for a harsher ride, less sidewall flex to absorb the bumps. Too low of a pressure, excessive sidewall flex which makes the tire squirmier and increased tire temps due to the excessive flexing.

Manufacturers base tire pressure on two main considerations. Ride comfort vs handling, and strike a balancing act between the two. Anyone remember Ford and Firestone? Our company did the post NHTSA testing determination.

Overall, a tire is at the proper inflation when there is equal contact force across the face of the tire which is reflected in even tire wear.

Now to the original question - the reason to use a runflat. #1 reason - safety. A RF or non-RF will both give higher load capacity, longer life, cheaper to buy, more traction, ability to get Darkside cookies 😁. The difference in flickability in turns due to weight difference between the two is negligible in my opinion.

But the inherent safety of not having a catastrophic event from loss of air pressure is the #1 advantage of a RF. On a car they're rated at 50 miles at 50 mph with zero pressure. I've known guys that have ridden them over 120 miles in order to get home from booneyville in the middle of the night. My wife is important to me, when she rides I want to maximize our chances.

I've had sudden flats on MC tires at speed. I survived (obviously). Not sure what the results would have been with wife on back. I now have over 200k miles on CTs, and am a believer.

Everyone needs to ride their own ride - these are just my personal opinions.
 

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I've got several old posts regarding CTs, run flat vs non.

Short version regarding above comments. More pressure in any tire makes for a harsher ride, less sidewall flex to absorb the bumps. Too low of a pressure, excessive sidewall flex which makes the tire squirmier and increased tire temps due to the excessive flexing.

Manufacturers base tire pressure on two main considerations. Ride comfort vs handling, and strike a balancing act between the two. Anyone remember Ford and Firestone? Our company did the post NHTSA testing determination.

Overall, a tire is at the proper inflation when there is equal contact force across the face of the tire which is reflected in even tire wear.

Now to the original question - the reason to use a runflat. #1 reason - safety. A RF or non-RF will both give higher load capacity, longer life, cheaper to buy, more traction, ability to get Darkside cookies 😁. The difference in flickability in turns due to weight difference between the two is negligible in my opinion.

But the inherent safety of not having a catastrophic event from loss of air pressure is the #1 advantage of a RF. On a car they're rated at 50 miles at 50 mph with zero pressure. I've known guys that have ridden them over 120 miles in order to get home from booneyville in the middle of the night. My wife is important to me, when she rides I want to maximize our chances.

I've had sudden flats on MC tires at speed. I survived (obviously). Not sure what the results would have been with wife on back. I now have over 200k miles on CTs, and am a believer.

Everyone needs to ride their own ride - these are just my personal opinions.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I've got several old posts regarding CTs, run flat vs non.

Short version regarding above comments. More pressure in any tire makes for a harsher ride, less sidewall flex to absorb the bumps. Too low of a pressure, excessive sidewall flex which makes the tire squirmier and increased tire temps due to the excessive flexing.

Manufacturers base tire pressure on two main considerations. Ride comfort vs handling, and strike a balancing act between the two. Anyone remember Ford and Firestone? Our company did the post NHTSA testing determination.

Overall, a tire is at the proper inflation when there is equal contact force across the face of the tire which is reflected in even tire wear.

Now to the original question - the reason to use a runflat. #1 reason - safety. A RF or non-RF will both give higher load capacity, longer life, cheaper to buy, more traction, ability to get Darkside cookies 😁. The difference in flickability in turns due to weight difference between the two is negligible in my opinion.

But the inherent safety of not having a catastrophic event from loss of air pressure is the #1 advantage of a RF. On a car they're rated at 50 miles at 50 mph with zero pressure. I've known guys that have ridden them over 120 miles in order to get home from booneyville in the middle of the night. My wife is important to me, when she rides I want to maximize our chances.

I've had sudden flats on MC tires at speed. I survived (obviously). Not sure what the results would have been with wife on back. I now have over 200k miles on CTs, and am a believer.

Everyone needs to ride their own ride - these are just my personal opinions.
Thanks for that post.

Might I ask what you’re currently running? I’m about 50/50 between the pirelli P1 and the Bridgestone Drivegaurd. If I had to buy right now I’d probably go Bridgestone.
 

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SSNCOB ...this is great information and a great response. I am flirting with moving toward the Darkside. I appreciate your experience (200k miles) and your opinion. I say "LET THE DATA TELL THE STORY"....that said
  • Manufactures state RF will carry a car 50 miles @ 50 mph, hence I could see 100+ miles on a Goldwing, given there is much lighter weight to manage
  • More surface contact in wet weather (safety)
  • Data indicates shorter stopping distance
  • Handling / cornering - negligible (your comments , as well as, many other Darksiders)
  • MC Tire 8K to 12K miles per tire vs CT Tire 20K+ miles
  • Prices point of RF vs MC tire - same
I have had the experience of attending Wingding, purchase a set of tires, picked up a nail in rear…$120 + install, times 2 (just bought the dang tire), 150 miles from home I-85S, a squirrely feeling in the rear of the GL1800 - a nail running about 80 mph. I struggle to understand why a person would NOT take a hard look at the Darkside. ...but what do I know, I'm just a local boy - trying to make good. :)
 

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Thanks for that post.

Might I ask what you’re currently running? I’m about 50/50 between the pirelli P1 and the Bridgestone Drivegaurd. If I had to buy right now I’d probably go Bridgestone.
I don't have any experience with the pirelli p one, so I can't really talk about it. In regards to the driveguard it's a good tire I personally prefer the symmetrical tread design of the Yokohama avid invignor. I've run the invignir for three tires now and just ordered another one.

I've gone through several different types of tires the drivegard and the invignor both are good for cornering without having a drop off or roll off apparent.
 

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This is as good a time as any for another long time darksider to say something again about tire weight. The example I will use is the Michelin Alpin. I used that tire several years ago and really loved it at the time. Went through 8 of those tires.

On a whim, I got to wondering about the different tires and how much they weigh. The Michelin was a 25 pound tire. I thought it handled just fine, until I tired one of the Pirelli's. As a result of my experience with the Pirelli, I could not go back and finish up my last Michelin. Had to give it away to another darksider. The difference is more noticeable when riding what I call compound curves where you have to transition left to right quickly. The lighter tire is so much easier to flick back and forth than the heavier tires.

When selecting tires, if the transition handling in the curves is important to you, check out one of the 21-22 pound tires. It is only a few pounds, but it makes a difference.
 

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Y'all do realize, ya can't do Twisties with a car tire, especially if you be pulling a trailer ??

Ya just gonna crash and burn... 😈

.
369582
369583
 

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Discussion Starter #18
  • I don't have any experience with the pirelli p one, so I can't really talk about it. In regards to the driveguard it's a good tire I personally prefer the symmetrical tread design of the Yokohama avid invignor. I've run the invignir for three tires now and just ordered another one.

    I've gone through several different types of tires the drivegard and the invignor both are good for cornering without having a drop off or roll off apparent.
  • Thanks. Just ordered that Yokohama.

  • Might I ask what front you’re running? I haven’t thought much about what front to use.
 
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