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136 Posts
Hello all! Here's a bit of tire background first:
When I first bought my used 2002 GL1800B in January, the tires on the bike were about 3/4ths worn in the centers, and still nearly new on the sides. The previous owner obviously did a lot of highway miles. I have some great high speed back-roads nearby, so most of my rides were spent navigating the twisties while enjoying the beautiful back country and mountainous scenery. And now, after 4,000 aggressive miles, the front and rear tires were finally past the wear bars with a good amount of rubber worn off the sides... as well as ground down foot pegs from scraping in the turns.:grin2:
With all the overwhelming positive response from DS riders for our bikes, I thought Id give it a try. I found take-off parts from a local trike conversion and bought a great used rear wheel (which still has a new factory mounted tire) in case I wanted to quickly swap back to a cycle tire. The Wing is my first touring road bike. The rest were modified +one liter sport bikes that have safely carried me more than 200k, so this isnt my first rodeo.
After some research, I decided to start off by going double-dark with balance beads. I mounted the front 130/70R18 Bridgestone BT-45, spinning standard rotation with 41 PSI. Then put 150 miles on it to test its performance on my usual back-road circuit. Reports of easier turn-in is true. It takes less effort to turn the bike, both during aggressive cornering and freeway lane changes. The tires provided a good bit more traction than the old worn G707, although the bike is extremely limited to relatively shallow lean angles, as compared to the sports bikes Ive owned. I set my rear preload @25 when I bought the bike and haven't touched it since. Gone was the annoying deceleration wobble, which became increasingly exacerbated when I exceeded the wear bars of the old rubber. Satisfied with the front end, it now became time to test the dreaded rear CT.
For the rear, I bought a 205/60R16 Bridgestone Driveguard. A lot of you run the 195/55R16 or the 205/55R16. But there are a number of others who were able to stuff the larger, taller tire into the early GL1800's with minimal difficulties. I had always been annoyed with the lack of a 6th gear on my bike while traveling above 50mph. That, and my speedo indicated 6 MPH faster than I was traveling. I've read about the speedo healer, but was far more interested in drop a few RPM's at cruise.
After mounting the new rear tire with 3oz of balance beads and setting pressure at 29 PSI, I laid the bike on its side and used a floor jack under the center stand pivot point to lift the bike for additional clearance. I had already removed the rear wheel during a previous inspection when I first bought the bike, and learned that the breaker bar can break lose the lug nuts with the bike in 1st gear while its on its side. Same when re-torquing the lugs to 80 ft/lbs... this can be done with the bike still on its side in 1st gear without worrying about the engine turning over.
I wrangled that darn wheel for at least an hour! To gain as much gravity assist as possible, I adjusted the height of the bike on its side with the floor jack, almost to the point of nearly flipped it over. The darn wheel just wouldn't slip into place from any angle! So onto the next forum tricks... in goes a garbage bag between the wheel and the bike and letting the air out of the tire. Still no dice! So as a last ditch effort, I doubled up a large heavy duty garden trash bag, so at least 4 layers of plastic could slide against each other (hopefully, further reducing friction), and placed it over the portion of the wheel entering the bike. Another 5 minutes of cursing and then it suddenly slipped into place. After all that, I couldn't believe it actually fit. I was just about to give up and take a lot more of the bike apart to stuff it in.
Once I righted the bike, I put it on its center stand to double check clearances. The rear tire wouldn't spin, so after confirming neutral, my initial thoughts were that it must be rubbing on the small high point of the swing arm... which others had mentioned was a possibility. Then I noticed the tire was still on the ground because of its taller tire height. One benefit of the taller tire is that it is now extremely easy to put the bike on the center stand, and take off. Id say the amount of weight and pressure needed to mount the bike on the stand is now about half what it used to be. Its still firmly in place on the center stand, so wont roll off easily while working on the bike. But it is something to be aware of while exerting forward pressures, even while parked in 1st gear. After all, it is the 900 lb. gorilla in the room.
Im 6'0", 180 with a 33" inseam, and I didn't notice the taller seating position (although its probably about 3/8" taller than before).
Riding impressions:
Since the previous tire was worn flat across the center from its previous owner, the bike was always susceptible to incurring off center induced turning moments while navigating uneven terrain at low speeds. I especially noticed this while off road when starting out and while crossing irregular surfaces (the bike tried to throw me off to the left or right). From a slow standing start across these nasty surfaces, and after learning that my job was to keep the bike perpendicular to the ground while tip toeing and letting the engine do all the work, these angular traversals became a no-brainer and are now easily anticipated before it becomes a problem. Just look ahead and read the terrain. Others had mentioned the 205 tire width exacerbated the side loading leverage the tire exerted while navigating uneven terrain and to stick with with 195 width CT's. After studying the spec sheets for the Driveguard, it didn't seem at all logical that the small increase in width could even be noticeable... and it wasn't.
I was IMMEDIATELY at home on my new DDS rubber. How comfortable was I? I negotiated a full steering lock 90 degree left hand turn @3mph with both feet on the pegs within the first 50 feet of new DDS tire-dom, while turning from my driveway onto the road. Now with 500 mostly back road miles, I will say there is a minor amount of additional turn-in effort to set the turn. But it takes such a small amount of additional pressure that it would have gone unnoticed, if I hadn't ridden the bike with the cycle tires first to compare. After the first few turns (where I am being extremely critical of the new sensations) I have not noticed it since and dont think about it any longer. IMO, the talk of additional turn-in effort is hugely exaggerated by a few others. That, or the Driveguard lends itself to the Wing better than whatever they were using. Plus, Im running the widest/tallest version that can fit the early GL1800, which should present a worst-case scenario. The tire sticks to the road like its a racing slick, and far better than the stock rubber that gave me 4000 corner-waggling miles. Transitions through tight S-turns with the new CT felt like I was running on a MT. There was never a feeling of "notchiness" as I transitioned from full lean angle, through vertical and into full opposite lean angles. I thought Id at least detect something... a small bump perhaps, as I rolled the tire from the wide flat foot print over onto its edge... but it never happened. This tire just grips and grips, where the MT felt lose when pushed.
As anticipated, there was a slight burning smell that others had reported with the 205/60, which quickly went away after 100 miles. The wide/tall 205/60 tire contacts a small portion of the swing-arm while under engine load, before it gets rubbed down. No rubbing was detected when I put a board under the center stand to get the wheel in the air for initial inspection. Inspection of the tire and inside of the bike whell after the burning smell went away showed no evidence of wear, so I will have to assume it was the noted high spot on the swing arm. Also, setting the bike with 0 preload had no effect.
My speedometer is now about 1 mph slower than GPS speed, and the taller sidewall seems to slightly soften impact bumps incurred on the roadways. That, and/or the slightly taller tire rolls across irregularities better. I didnt notice any lack of hp or low end torque from the taller final, but now find myself in 4th gear more often, where before I was in 5th while taking the same high-bank angle turns at the same lean angles. While I know the engine is now turning slower with the taller CT at the same speed, its not really noticeable in practice while blasting down the freeway. I still wish this bike had another gear to drop the rpm's further. Starting in 1st is ever-so-slightly taller than before. So I often do 1-3-5 shifts when putting around town. Before, starts in 1st were a bit low. While 2nd gear starts were possible, it slipped the clutch unnecessarily for my tastes... not my idea of getting good service life from the friction materials and polluting/heating the oil when it can easily be avoided.
As others on another forum had mentioned, the GL1800 was made for a taller rear tire and sets the geometry of the bike as its designers had intended. This, in combination of properly correcting the speedometer error, seems to solidify their belief. And now, with a steeper steering rake angle and preload set at 25, I would have though the faster steering might have become an annoyance while cruising down the freeway... and that I would probably wind up reducing the preload to reduce rake angles to prevent some hunting while traveling in a straight line. But that was not at all the case. The bike does equally well in the turns as it does on the straights.
Cornering:
As I mentioned before, this tire really hooks up, inspires confidence and has never let go. With the MT, the rear always felt vague, and I monitored my limits mostly based upon inputs from the front end and prior experience of learning when the back end would wash out. Now with the CT, I can feel precisely what the back end is doing. The feedback and traction is equal to the front and has completely transformed the back-road riding experience to a new level. AND these CT's are designed for longevity, not gobs of traction, yet they easily outperform the stock rubber. Im happy with them for now and haven't yet felt the calling for the uber-traction Pirelli Snowcontrol or P1 some others are using. But then, they dont make them in 205/60R16 runflat, so they were not considered.
While I never rode this bike with a nice new set of cycle tires to compare, the same occasional yaw can be felt with the CT, as with the worn-out-in-the-middle MT while traversing grooved concrete interstates. Those darn groves can be annoying! Its only a slight annoyance with an occasional lose waggle, with several very smaller waggles in between. Not a huge deal, but noticeable. Increasing speed decreases the yaw tendency... and who doesnt enjoy ridding in the fast lane anyway? I also own an Accord, which does the same waggle across grooved interstate, and its attributable to the tires on the car (which is a known issue with those particular tires and that particular car). Perhaps the same is true with the wide/tall Driveguard on the GL1800 on grooved concrete. Its not enough to prevent me from engaging the cruise control and ridding hands-off while testing the tendency. But it is an annoyance over long distances. So I prefer ungrooved road surfaces. Sure, I could increase the rear tire pressure to try and eliminate the tendency. But others of vast experience have already chosen where I need to run, given my weight and keeping wear even across the tread. Since this is the only real "flaw" Ive found, I feel I need to nit-pic a little bit. But then, this might also be true of running a new MT, or perhaps only certain MT's across grooved interstate. I should also mention that there is no perceptible sidewall deflection during hard cornering with this new CT Driveguard. Braking is noticeably improved during full-on ABS braking (tested around 50 mph), although the front BT45 needed to wear-in some before reaching its potential.
The CT grips tons while traversing something other than tarmac... where the MT was absolutely abysmal, unpredictable and lost traction often. This might give me the confidence to tow my trailer a bit deeper off-road while MC camping next season. I have not ridden in the wet yet so cant comment. Someone told me our bikes shrink when wet over extended periods of time, and Im sticking with it!
Not surprisingly (and just as most all other Wing DS'ers have commented), all my expectations have been far exceeded over what was anticipated. I just hope that when the time comes, the wheel with that tall/fat tire will be easier to remove than put on. Sheesh!
Here's a few tire specs to contemplate:
Model Diameter Depth Load Weight RPM/Mile
D250 Stock Rear 180/60R16 24.81” 9/32 827 lbs.
Elite 4 Radial Rear 180/60R16 24.43” 10/32 992 lbs.
Elite 4 Radial Rear 180/70R16 26.00” 10/32 908 lbs.
Cobra Chrome Rear 180/70R16 25.80” 11/32 908 lbs.
DriveGuard - 195/55RF16 24.4" 5.7" 12/32" 1,201 lbs. 24 lbs. 853rpm
DriveGuard - 205/55RF16 24.9" 6" 12/32" 1,356 lbs. 25 lbs. 837rpm
DriveGuard - 205/60RF16 25.7" 6" 12/32" 1,389 lbs. 28 lbs. 812rpm
Snowcontrol 3 Run Flat 195/55R16 24.5" 6" 10/32" 1,202 lbs. 22 lbs.
Cinturato P1 Run Flat 195/55R16 24.4" 6" 10/32" 1,202 lbs 21 lbs.
When I first bought my used 2002 GL1800B in January, the tires on the bike were about 3/4ths worn in the centers, and still nearly new on the sides. The previous owner obviously did a lot of highway miles. I have some great high speed back-roads nearby, so most of my rides were spent navigating the twisties while enjoying the beautiful back country and mountainous scenery. And now, after 4,000 aggressive miles, the front and rear tires were finally past the wear bars with a good amount of rubber worn off the sides... as well as ground down foot pegs from scraping in the turns.:grin2:
With all the overwhelming positive response from DS riders for our bikes, I thought Id give it a try. I found take-off parts from a local trike conversion and bought a great used rear wheel (which still has a new factory mounted tire) in case I wanted to quickly swap back to a cycle tire. The Wing is my first touring road bike. The rest were modified +one liter sport bikes that have safely carried me more than 200k, so this isnt my first rodeo.
After some research, I decided to start off by going double-dark with balance beads. I mounted the front 130/70R18 Bridgestone BT-45, spinning standard rotation with 41 PSI. Then put 150 miles on it to test its performance on my usual back-road circuit. Reports of easier turn-in is true. It takes less effort to turn the bike, both during aggressive cornering and freeway lane changes. The tires provided a good bit more traction than the old worn G707, although the bike is extremely limited to relatively shallow lean angles, as compared to the sports bikes Ive owned. I set my rear preload @25 when I bought the bike and haven't touched it since. Gone was the annoying deceleration wobble, which became increasingly exacerbated when I exceeded the wear bars of the old rubber. Satisfied with the front end, it now became time to test the dreaded rear CT.
For the rear, I bought a 205/60R16 Bridgestone Driveguard. A lot of you run the 195/55R16 or the 205/55R16. But there are a number of others who were able to stuff the larger, taller tire into the early GL1800's with minimal difficulties. I had always been annoyed with the lack of a 6th gear on my bike while traveling above 50mph. That, and my speedo indicated 6 MPH faster than I was traveling. I've read about the speedo healer, but was far more interested in drop a few RPM's at cruise.
After mounting the new rear tire with 3oz of balance beads and setting pressure at 29 PSI, I laid the bike on its side and used a floor jack under the center stand pivot point to lift the bike for additional clearance. I had already removed the rear wheel during a previous inspection when I first bought the bike, and learned that the breaker bar can break lose the lug nuts with the bike in 1st gear while its on its side. Same when re-torquing the lugs to 80 ft/lbs... this can be done with the bike still on its side in 1st gear without worrying about the engine turning over.
I wrangled that darn wheel for at least an hour! To gain as much gravity assist as possible, I adjusted the height of the bike on its side with the floor jack, almost to the point of nearly flipped it over. The darn wheel just wouldn't slip into place from any angle! So onto the next forum tricks... in goes a garbage bag between the wheel and the bike and letting the air out of the tire. Still no dice! So as a last ditch effort, I doubled up a large heavy duty garden trash bag, so at least 4 layers of plastic could slide against each other (hopefully, further reducing friction), and placed it over the portion of the wheel entering the bike. Another 5 minutes of cursing and then it suddenly slipped into place. After all that, I couldn't believe it actually fit. I was just about to give up and take a lot more of the bike apart to stuff it in.
Once I righted the bike, I put it on its center stand to double check clearances. The rear tire wouldn't spin, so after confirming neutral, my initial thoughts were that it must be rubbing on the small high point of the swing arm... which others had mentioned was a possibility. Then I noticed the tire was still on the ground because of its taller tire height. One benefit of the taller tire is that it is now extremely easy to put the bike on the center stand, and take off. Id say the amount of weight and pressure needed to mount the bike on the stand is now about half what it used to be. Its still firmly in place on the center stand, so wont roll off easily while working on the bike. But it is something to be aware of while exerting forward pressures, even while parked in 1st gear. After all, it is the 900 lb. gorilla in the room.
Im 6'0", 180 with a 33" inseam, and I didn't notice the taller seating position (although its probably about 3/8" taller than before).
Riding impressions:
Since the previous tire was worn flat across the center from its previous owner, the bike was always susceptible to incurring off center induced turning moments while navigating uneven terrain at low speeds. I especially noticed this while off road when starting out and while crossing irregular surfaces (the bike tried to throw me off to the left or right). From a slow standing start across these nasty surfaces, and after learning that my job was to keep the bike perpendicular to the ground while tip toeing and letting the engine do all the work, these angular traversals became a no-brainer and are now easily anticipated before it becomes a problem. Just look ahead and read the terrain. Others had mentioned the 205 tire width exacerbated the side loading leverage the tire exerted while navigating uneven terrain and to stick with with 195 width CT's. After studying the spec sheets for the Driveguard, it didn't seem at all logical that the small increase in width could even be noticeable... and it wasn't.
I was IMMEDIATELY at home on my new DDS rubber. How comfortable was I? I negotiated a full steering lock 90 degree left hand turn @3mph with both feet on the pegs within the first 50 feet of new DDS tire-dom, while turning from my driveway onto the road. Now with 500 mostly back road miles, I will say there is a minor amount of additional turn-in effort to set the turn. But it takes such a small amount of additional pressure that it would have gone unnoticed, if I hadn't ridden the bike with the cycle tires first to compare. After the first few turns (where I am being extremely critical of the new sensations) I have not noticed it since and dont think about it any longer. IMO, the talk of additional turn-in effort is hugely exaggerated by a few others. That, or the Driveguard lends itself to the Wing better than whatever they were using. Plus, Im running the widest/tallest version that can fit the early GL1800, which should present a worst-case scenario. The tire sticks to the road like its a racing slick, and far better than the stock rubber that gave me 4000 corner-waggling miles. Transitions through tight S-turns with the new CT felt like I was running on a MT. There was never a feeling of "notchiness" as I transitioned from full lean angle, through vertical and into full opposite lean angles. I thought Id at least detect something... a small bump perhaps, as I rolled the tire from the wide flat foot print over onto its edge... but it never happened. This tire just grips and grips, where the MT felt lose when pushed.
As anticipated, there was a slight burning smell that others had reported with the 205/60, which quickly went away after 100 miles. The wide/tall 205/60 tire contacts a small portion of the swing-arm while under engine load, before it gets rubbed down. No rubbing was detected when I put a board under the center stand to get the wheel in the air for initial inspection. Inspection of the tire and inside of the bike whell after the burning smell went away showed no evidence of wear, so I will have to assume it was the noted high spot on the swing arm. Also, setting the bike with 0 preload had no effect.
My speedometer is now about 1 mph slower than GPS speed, and the taller sidewall seems to slightly soften impact bumps incurred on the roadways. That, and/or the slightly taller tire rolls across irregularities better. I didnt notice any lack of hp or low end torque from the taller final, but now find myself in 4th gear more often, where before I was in 5th while taking the same high-bank angle turns at the same lean angles. While I know the engine is now turning slower with the taller CT at the same speed, its not really noticeable in practice while blasting down the freeway. I still wish this bike had another gear to drop the rpm's further. Starting in 1st is ever-so-slightly taller than before. So I often do 1-3-5 shifts when putting around town. Before, starts in 1st were a bit low. While 2nd gear starts were possible, it slipped the clutch unnecessarily for my tastes... not my idea of getting good service life from the friction materials and polluting/heating the oil when it can easily be avoided.
As others on another forum had mentioned, the GL1800 was made for a taller rear tire and sets the geometry of the bike as its designers had intended. This, in combination of properly correcting the speedometer error, seems to solidify their belief. And now, with a steeper steering rake angle and preload set at 25, I would have though the faster steering might have become an annoyance while cruising down the freeway... and that I would probably wind up reducing the preload to reduce rake angles to prevent some hunting while traveling in a straight line. But that was not at all the case. The bike does equally well in the turns as it does on the straights.
Cornering:
As I mentioned before, this tire really hooks up, inspires confidence and has never let go. With the MT, the rear always felt vague, and I monitored my limits mostly based upon inputs from the front end and prior experience of learning when the back end would wash out. Now with the CT, I can feel precisely what the back end is doing. The feedback and traction is equal to the front and has completely transformed the back-road riding experience to a new level. AND these CT's are designed for longevity, not gobs of traction, yet they easily outperform the stock rubber. Im happy with them for now and haven't yet felt the calling for the uber-traction Pirelli Snowcontrol or P1 some others are using. But then, they dont make them in 205/60R16 runflat, so they were not considered.
While I never rode this bike with a nice new set of cycle tires to compare, the same occasional yaw can be felt with the CT, as with the worn-out-in-the-middle MT while traversing grooved concrete interstates. Those darn groves can be annoying! Its only a slight annoyance with an occasional lose waggle, with several very smaller waggles in between. Not a huge deal, but noticeable. Increasing speed decreases the yaw tendency... and who doesnt enjoy ridding in the fast lane anyway? I also own an Accord, which does the same waggle across grooved interstate, and its attributable to the tires on the car (which is a known issue with those particular tires and that particular car). Perhaps the same is true with the wide/tall Driveguard on the GL1800 on grooved concrete. Its not enough to prevent me from engaging the cruise control and ridding hands-off while testing the tendency. But it is an annoyance over long distances. So I prefer ungrooved road surfaces. Sure, I could increase the rear tire pressure to try and eliminate the tendency. But others of vast experience have already chosen where I need to run, given my weight and keeping wear even across the tread. Since this is the only real "flaw" Ive found, I feel I need to nit-pic a little bit. But then, this might also be true of running a new MT, or perhaps only certain MT's across grooved interstate. I should also mention that there is no perceptible sidewall deflection during hard cornering with this new CT Driveguard. Braking is noticeably improved during full-on ABS braking (tested around 50 mph), although the front BT45 needed to wear-in some before reaching its potential.
The CT grips tons while traversing something other than tarmac... where the MT was absolutely abysmal, unpredictable and lost traction often. This might give me the confidence to tow my trailer a bit deeper off-road while MC camping next season. I have not ridden in the wet yet so cant comment. Someone told me our bikes shrink when wet over extended periods of time, and Im sticking with it!
Not surprisingly (and just as most all other Wing DS'ers have commented), all my expectations have been far exceeded over what was anticipated. I just hope that when the time comes, the wheel with that tall/fat tire will be easier to remove than put on. Sheesh!
Here's a few tire specs to contemplate:
Model Diameter Depth Load Weight RPM/Mile
D250 Stock Rear 180/60R16 24.81” 9/32 827 lbs.
Elite 4 Radial Rear 180/60R16 24.43” 10/32 992 lbs.
Elite 4 Radial Rear 180/70R16 26.00” 10/32 908 lbs.
Cobra Chrome Rear 180/70R16 25.80” 11/32 908 lbs.
DriveGuard - 195/55RF16 24.4" 5.7" 12/32" 1,201 lbs. 24 lbs. 853rpm
DriveGuard - 205/55RF16 24.9" 6" 12/32" 1,356 lbs. 25 lbs. 837rpm
DriveGuard - 205/60RF16 25.7" 6" 12/32" 1,389 lbs. 28 lbs. 812rpm
Snowcontrol 3 Run Flat 195/55R16 24.5" 6" 10/32" 1,202 lbs. 22 lbs.
Cinturato P1 Run Flat 195/55R16 24.4" 6" 10/32" 1,202 lbs 21 lbs.
