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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello all! Here's a bit of tire background first:

When I first bought my used 2002 GL1800B in January, the tires on the bike were about 3/4ths worn in the centers, and still nearly new on the sides. The previous owner obviously did a lot of highway miles. I have some great high speed back-roads nearby, so most of my rides were spent navigating the twisties while enjoying the beautiful back country and mountainous scenery. And now, after 4,000 aggressive miles, the front and rear tires were finally past the wear bars with a good amount of rubber worn off the sides... as well as ground down foot pegs from scraping in the turns.:grin2:

With all the overwhelming positive response from DS riders for our bikes, I thought Id give it a try. I found take-off parts from a local trike conversion and bought a great used rear wheel (which still has a new factory mounted tire) in case I wanted to quickly swap back to a cycle tire. The Wing is my first touring road bike. The rest were modified +one liter sport bikes that have safely carried me more than 200k, so this isnt my first rodeo.

After some research, I decided to start off by going double-dark with balance beads. I mounted the front 130/70R18 Bridgestone BT-45, spinning standard rotation with 41 PSI. Then put 150 miles on it to test its performance on my usual back-road circuit. Reports of easier turn-in is true. It takes less effort to turn the bike, both during aggressive cornering and freeway lane changes. The tires provided a good bit more traction than the old worn G707, although the bike is extremely limited to relatively shallow lean angles, as compared to the sports bikes Ive owned. I set my rear preload @25 when I bought the bike and haven't touched it since. Gone was the annoying deceleration wobble, which became increasingly exacerbated when I exceeded the wear bars of the old rubber. Satisfied with the front end, it now became time to test the dreaded rear CT.

For the rear, I bought a 205/60R16 Bridgestone Driveguard. A lot of you run the 195/55R16 or the 205/55R16. But there are a number of others who were able to stuff the larger, taller tire into the early GL1800's with minimal difficulties. I had always been annoyed with the lack of a 6th gear on my bike while traveling above 50mph. That, and my speedo indicated 6 MPH faster than I was traveling. I've read about the speedo healer, but was far more interested in drop a few RPM's at cruise.

After mounting the new rear tire with 3oz of balance beads and setting pressure at 29 PSI, I laid the bike on its side and used a floor jack under the center stand pivot point to lift the bike for additional clearance. I had already removed the rear wheel during a previous inspection when I first bought the bike, and learned that the breaker bar can break lose the lug nuts with the bike in 1st gear while its on its side. Same when re-torquing the lugs to 80 ft/lbs... this can be done with the bike still on its side in 1st gear without worrying about the engine turning over.

I wrangled that darn wheel for at least an hour! To gain as much gravity assist as possible, I adjusted the height of the bike on its side with the floor jack, almost to the point of nearly flipped it over. The darn wheel just wouldn't slip into place from any angle! So onto the next forum tricks... in goes a garbage bag between the wheel and the bike and letting the air out of the tire. Still no dice! So as a last ditch effort, I doubled up a large heavy duty garden trash bag, so at least 4 layers of plastic could slide against each other (hopefully, further reducing friction), and placed it over the portion of the wheel entering the bike. Another 5 minutes of cursing and then it suddenly slipped into place. After all that, I couldn't believe it actually fit. I was just about to give up and take a lot more of the bike apart to stuff it in.

Once I righted the bike, I put it on its center stand to double check clearances. The rear tire wouldn't spin, so after confirming neutral, my initial thoughts were that it must be rubbing on the small high point of the swing arm... which others had mentioned was a possibility. Then I noticed the tire was still on the ground because of its taller tire height. One benefit of the taller tire is that it is now extremely easy to put the bike on the center stand, and take off. Id say the amount of weight and pressure needed to mount the bike on the stand is now about half what it used to be. Its still firmly in place on the center stand, so wont roll off easily while working on the bike. But it is something to be aware of while exerting forward pressures, even while parked in 1st gear. After all, it is the 900 lb. gorilla in the room.

Im 6'0", 180 with a 33" inseam, and I didn't notice the taller seating position (although its probably about 3/8" taller than before).

Riding impressions:
Since the previous tire was worn flat across the center from its previous owner, the bike was always susceptible to incurring off center induced turning moments while navigating uneven terrain at low speeds. I especially noticed this while off road when starting out and while crossing irregular surfaces (the bike tried to throw me off to the left or right). From a slow standing start across these nasty surfaces, and after learning that my job was to keep the bike perpendicular to the ground while tip toeing and letting the engine do all the work, these angular traversals became a no-brainer and are now easily anticipated before it becomes a problem. Just look ahead and read the terrain. Others had mentioned the 205 tire width exacerbated the side loading leverage the tire exerted while navigating uneven terrain and to stick with with 195 width CT's. After studying the spec sheets for the Driveguard, it didn't seem at all logical that the small increase in width could even be noticeable... and it wasn't.

I was IMMEDIATELY at home on my new DDS rubber. How comfortable was I? I negotiated a full steering lock 90 degree left hand turn @3mph with both feet on the pegs within the first 50 feet of new DDS tire-dom, while turning from my driveway onto the road. Now with 500 mostly back road miles, I will say there is a minor amount of additional turn-in effort to set the turn. But it takes such a small amount of additional pressure that it would have gone unnoticed, if I hadn't ridden the bike with the cycle tires first to compare. After the first few turns (where I am being extremely critical of the new sensations) I have not noticed it since and dont think about it any longer. IMO, the talk of additional turn-in effort is hugely exaggerated by a few others. That, or the Driveguard lends itself to the Wing better than whatever they were using. Plus, Im running the widest/tallest version that can fit the early GL1800, which should present a worst-case scenario. The tire sticks to the road like its a racing slick, and far better than the stock rubber that gave me 4000 corner-waggling miles. Transitions through tight S-turns with the new CT felt like I was running on a MT. There was never a feeling of "notchiness" as I transitioned from full lean angle, through vertical and into full opposite lean angles. I thought Id at least detect something... a small bump perhaps, as I rolled the tire from the wide flat foot print over onto its edge... but it never happened. This tire just grips and grips, where the MT felt lose when pushed.

As anticipated, there was a slight burning smell that others had reported with the 205/60, which quickly went away after 100 miles. The wide/tall 205/60 tire contacts a small portion of the swing-arm while under engine load, before it gets rubbed down. No rubbing was detected when I put a board under the center stand to get the wheel in the air for initial inspection. Inspection of the tire and inside of the bike whell after the burning smell went away showed no evidence of wear, so I will have to assume it was the noted high spot on the swing arm. Also, setting the bike with 0 preload had no effect.

My speedometer is now about 1 mph slower than GPS speed, and the taller sidewall seems to slightly soften impact bumps incurred on the roadways. That, and/or the slightly taller tire rolls across irregularities better. I didnt notice any lack of hp or low end torque from the taller final, but now find myself in 4th gear more often, where before I was in 5th while taking the same high-bank angle turns at the same lean angles. While I know the engine is now turning slower with the taller CT at the same speed, its not really noticeable in practice while blasting down the freeway. I still wish this bike had another gear to drop the rpm's further. Starting in 1st is ever-so-slightly taller than before. So I often do 1-3-5 shifts when putting around town. Before, starts in 1st were a bit low. While 2nd gear starts were possible, it slipped the clutch unnecessarily for my tastes... not my idea of getting good service life from the friction materials and polluting/heating the oil when it can easily be avoided.

As others on another forum had mentioned, the GL1800 was made for a taller rear tire and sets the geometry of the bike as its designers had intended. This, in combination of properly correcting the speedometer error, seems to solidify their belief. And now, with a steeper steering rake angle and preload set at 25, I would have though the faster steering might have become an annoyance while cruising down the freeway... and that I would probably wind up reducing the preload to reduce rake angles to prevent some hunting while traveling in a straight line. But that was not at all the case. The bike does equally well in the turns as it does on the straights.

Cornering:
As I mentioned before, this tire really hooks up, inspires confidence and has never let go. With the MT, the rear always felt vague, and I monitored my limits mostly based upon inputs from the front end and prior experience of learning when the back end would wash out. Now with the CT, I can feel precisely what the back end is doing. The feedback and traction is equal to the front and has completely transformed the back-road riding experience to a new level. AND these CT's are designed for longevity, not gobs of traction, yet they easily outperform the stock rubber. Im happy with them for now and haven't yet felt the calling for the uber-traction Pirelli Snowcontrol or P1 some others are using. But then, they dont make them in 205/60R16 runflat, so they were not considered.

While I never rode this bike with a nice new set of cycle tires to compare, the same occasional yaw can be felt with the CT, as with the worn-out-in-the-middle MT while traversing grooved concrete interstates. Those darn groves can be annoying! Its only a slight annoyance with an occasional lose waggle, with several very smaller waggles in between. Not a huge deal, but noticeable. Increasing speed decreases the yaw tendency... and who doesnt enjoy ridding in the fast lane anyway? I also own an Accord, which does the same waggle across grooved interstate, and its attributable to the tires on the car (which is a known issue with those particular tires and that particular car). Perhaps the same is true with the wide/tall Driveguard on the GL1800 on grooved concrete. Its not enough to prevent me from engaging the cruise control and ridding hands-off while testing the tendency. But it is an annoyance over long distances. So I prefer ungrooved road surfaces. Sure, I could increase the rear tire pressure to try and eliminate the tendency. But others of vast experience have already chosen where I need to run, given my weight and keeping wear even across the tread. Since this is the only real "flaw" Ive found, I feel I need to nit-pic a little bit. But then, this might also be true of running a new MT, or perhaps only certain MT's across grooved interstate. I should also mention that there is no perceptible sidewall deflection during hard cornering with this new CT Driveguard. Braking is noticeably improved during full-on ABS braking (tested around 50 mph), although the front BT45 needed to wear-in some before reaching its potential.

The CT grips tons while traversing something other than tarmac... where the MT was absolutely abysmal, unpredictable and lost traction often. This might give me the confidence to tow my trailer a bit deeper off-road while MC camping next season. I have not ridden in the wet yet so cant comment. Someone told me our bikes shrink when wet over extended periods of time, and Im sticking with it!

Not surprisingly (and just as most all other Wing DS'ers have commented), all my expectations have been far exceeded over what was anticipated. I just hope that when the time comes, the wheel with that tall/fat tire will be easier to remove than put on. Sheesh!

Here's a few tire specs to contemplate:

Model Diameter Depth Load Weight RPM/Mile

D250 Stock Rear 180/60R16 24.81” 9/32 827 lbs.

Elite 4 Radial Rear 180/60R16 24.43” 10/32 992 lbs.

Elite 4 Radial Rear 180/70R16 26.00” 10/32 908 lbs.

Cobra Chrome Rear 180/70R16 25.80” 11/32 908 lbs.

DriveGuard - 195/55RF16 24.4" 5.7" 12/32" 1,201 lbs. 24 lbs. 853rpm

DriveGuard - 205/55RF16 24.9" 6" 12/32" 1,356 lbs. 25 lbs. 837rpm

DriveGuard - 205/60RF16 25.7" 6" 12/32" 1,389 lbs. 28 lbs. 812rpm


Snowcontrol 3 Run Flat 195/55R16 24.5" 6" 10/32" 1,202 lbs. 22 lbs.

Cinturato P1 Run Flat 195/55R16 24.4" 6" 10/32" 1,202 lbs 21 lbs.
 

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wow that's a big and very good write up, and that's a great result, sounds like it's a really positive change, glad your happy with the set up, well worth it, i could never bring myself to do that and i am sure in the event a any sort of accident there would be major issues with insurance and the police here in Australia, so it's not for me, but great reading your experience with the change
 

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WOW! What a write up here:
If this was me typing this long letter, it would have taking me two weeks just to type anything that long....I'm a one finger type'rrrr

g
lad you found a way to get that tire up in between those shocks, and rear swing bar...Thanks for the post!!

Ronnie
 

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Discussion Starter #4
My write-up probably served as a great way of helping insomniacs fall asleep. Sorry to those who suffered till the end! :shock:

It took a lot of research to convince me to try double dark siding with the wider/taller CT. Information was often incomplete and scattered across forums and dozens of threads. So I thought it might help someone else considering DDS if I put all the information and my experiences in one place. Besides, I had some time to kill while monitoring a job at work, and it didn't take too long... I talk, it types. Hopefully, someone else thinking about the 205/60R16 will find some part of this useful.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
wow that's a big and very good write up, and that's a great result, sounds like it's a really positive change, glad your happy with the set up, well worth it, i could never bring myself to do that and i am sure in the event a any sort of accident there would be major issues with insurance and the police here in Australia, so it's not for me, but great reading your experience with the change

There has already been some interesting discussion concerning insuring a cycle wearing a CT. The consensus was that it would not alter the insureability of a cycle if it were involved in an accident. If it is of concern to anyone, I would suggest emailing the insurance agent and asking specifically if it is permissible and without increased liability to do so. That way, you have a reply in writing in case it is ever challenged in the future. That, or avoid DS all together. As for the visual of the CT on the rear, I doubt anyone would notice unless they were following closely through the back roads while my bike is healed over. And even then, perhaps not.



Just out of curiosity, you might want to follow up with your insurance company and post your results for other Aus riders to consider. Ive spoken with several cycle police in my area, who have all been very friendly and happy to talk about their R1200GS beemers. A few good deals had popped up recently and I was considering buying one. Of unanimous consensus from the LEO's that I learned very quickly is to avoid them, unless someone else is paying their upkeep.
 

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Great write up. Much like what us DS have found by running the right CT and comparing it to the MC tire. I am also one who will likely never go back to the MC tire.


:chat:


Corventure Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Thanks... Im just trying to give back a little to an incredible forum that has been so supportive of others. A proper CT that lends itself towards big bikes is the easiest, least expensive upgrade we can give our Wings. If someone has found another way to easily and immediately bolt-on such performance improvements; from the seat-of-the-pants experience, to the myriad of technical and safety advantages built-in, for $120 or less, please post a link.


And now, I think Ive discovered why so many Wing riders don't participate in DS discussions, where they can continue to learn from others who know better. Look where the admin deliberately BURIED the DS threads! Really?? Its not even in the main index, and I had to use google search to find it. Anyone know why?

This is simply ridiculous!
GL1800Riders > GL1800Riders Sub. Boards > Gl1800 Riders Focus Groups > Darkside Riders >

Ive extensively researched the subject across multiple forums from those who have accumulated millions of miles on car tires. Those who criticize DS are almost unanimously the ones who have never tried, and from an overwhelming number of simple-minded trolls. The smaller percentage that have tried and swapped back, more often didn't run a recommended tire that lent itself to the bike. And now, with the latest gen of recommended car tires that close the gap even further, its just more icing on the cake. By far the most posted comment from DS riders is that they will never go back... as they collectively continue to log MILLIONS of miles on car tires. But then, we already know that... right? And how many times have we seen others offer to mount a spare DS wheel on another riders Wing so they can experience it for themselves? Mind blowing...

I think I'll jump on the freeway and listen in on the CB chatter to find out how my truck driver notice what Ive stuffed under the rear fender! lol
 

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...And now, I think Ive discovered why so many Wing riders don't participate in DS discussions, where they can continue to learn from others who know better. Look where the admin deliberately BURIED the DS threads! Really?? Its not even in the main index, and I had to use google search to find it. Anyone know why?

This is simply ridiculous!
GL1800Riders > GL1800Riders Sub. Boards > Gl1800 Riders Focus Groups > Darkside Riders >
If you were here in the early days, in the days of Whiteboy the hotbox and others, some of the most heated discussions were on the general board. LaMont, the one with the reins, decided it would be best to take the dark side discussions downstairs, to keep peace and any concerned liabilities about the board and CT support separated. The darkside board had a notice, that the info on that forum was at one's own risk.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
If you were here in the early days, in the days of Whiteboy the hotbox and others, some of the most heated discussions were on the general board. LaMont, the one with the reins, decided it would be best to take the dark side discussions downstairs, to keep peace and any concerned liabilities about the board and CT support separated. The darkside board had a notice, that the info on that forum was at one's own risk.[/QUOTE


Thank you for explaining the history. Given its current popularity and mainstream use, perhaps now would be a great time to move DS back into the main index and reiterate that everything we read in this forum is exclusively at our own risk. What do you think? How can I ask the moderator?



Interestingly, I recently acquired a cycle trailer at a low price. It was owned by a local surgeon who had owned several Wings throughout the decades. During one fine sunny day, he was ridding with his wife on board his GL1800 and in a group among several others cycles. When all of a sudden, the rear tire failed catastrophically and immediately dumped the bike on its side while traveling in a straight line @65 mph going down the freeway. They both sustained severe injuries that will require years of therapy. He was meticulous with his bikes and has no idea how it failed. All the riders who saw the accident mentioned that the bike was immediately flipped on its side and ejected its passengers. The laws of physics sound a bit challenged, but many others reported the same observations. They didnt even have a second to react before they were tumbling down the tarmac. I should have asked him the brand and model tire. That event was enough for he and his wife to hang up their helmets permanently and sell off everything cycle related as quickly as possible. It was his testimony that convinced me to seek a safer way to travel while aboard heavy bikes. Ive read that Dunlop E3's and E4's have a descent run-flat capability that goes unadvertised, but they still fail to address all the advantages of why we DS in the first place. If DS continues to grow as it already is, it seems logical that industry will recognize the opportunity to provide modern radial run-flat cycle tires and never turn back.



It all seems so simple and logical to me... so Im sticking with it!! :nerd:
 

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Ive read that Dunlop E3's and E4's have a descent run-flat capability that goes unadvertised, but they still fail to address all the advantages of why we DS in the first place. If DS continues to grow as it already is, it seems logical that industry will recognize the opportunity to provide modern radial run-flat cycle tires and never turn back.



It all seems so simple and logical to me... so Im sticking with it!! :nerd:

Yes, it all sounds very logical, except for one thing: the cost of development. Simply put, to develop such a tire would require a significant expenditure of R&D capital. Any business will expect a reasonable return on investment and, quite frankly, the market size for such a tire will not support the expense. The motorcycle tire companies have already shown that their position is to pay off tire failure suits out of court, as that cost is so much lower than the cost of developing a safer tire. It is simple economics for them, unfortunately for the riding community. The best solution in the US is to use a CT that matches your riding style.
 

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FlashPilot, really glad you have found a good combination that works for you. After wearing out literally dozens of CT’s on 1500’s and now on 1800’s (over 360k on the lately retired yellow) there is a reason most of the riders are using the sizes and tires we have settled into.

Just as a point of information, (very different than argument!) may I share my 205/60/16 nightmare...(?)

My learning experience started much like yours. Liked the height, lower rpms, and stability of the wider tire. My nightmare began a few months into the enjoyment, while ignoring periodic whiffs of rubber I ,too, checked out and wrote off. Late at night on the way back from a 3000k trip, in the middle of a rainstorm, two-up pulling a trailer we were cruising down the road when electrical gremlins began showing up. My buddy reported tail lights disappearing, stereo dropped out, etc. The cause was defined when the inner fender( the part that extends from just aft of the relay boxes under there the seat, and extends back under the seat and mounts behind the rear fender) shed a chunk that folded back and started making a horrible racket. (The agressive tread on the too tall tire caught a loose corner of the inner fender that had been rubbed through and folded the front part down and forward under the joint behind the relays laying it on top the tire.). I stopped in the rain and beside the road pulled the seat and found that the main wiring harness had been laying on the tire and had an 8” section rubbed through where it had been laying on the right side of the inner fender, just inside the frame roughly where the seat bolts brackets mount to the subframe. The wiring harness at that point basically just lays on top the inner fender plastic. When that got compromised the harness was allowed to sag down and the burning was not only the inner fender, but now was the wiring. We stopped in the rain and taped things up to get to the next canopy at a truck stop. Emergency repairs were made, the remains of the damaged inner fender were removed and we limped home with no taillights. (Followed by a buddy) I chose to splice and repair the damaged section of the loom, but most would have replaced the harness, which would have required a complete tear down of the bike.

My suggestion would be to not run any tire that rubs anything, but if you choose to, at least make sure you have the wiring tied up to the frame tightly away from the area where the top of the tire would contact the inner fender.... If it ever rubs through, you’ll need wire, wire ties, electrical tape and possibly an umbrella. (These things always go south when you’re needing to get somewhere in the rain!) Re: Murphy...

Not telling you what to do. Your bike, your ride! Just sharing another 205/60 story...

Hope it all works out for you... ride happy!!

:thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Yes, it all sounds very logical, except for one thing: the cost of development. Simply put, to develop such a tire would require a significant expenditure of R&D capital. Any business will expect a reasonable return on investment and, quite frankly, the market size for such a tire will not support the expense. The motorcycle tire companies have already shown that their position is to pay off tire failure suits out of court, as that cost is so much lower than the cost of developing a safer tire. It is simple economics for them, unfortunately for the riding community. The best solution in the US is to use a CT that matches your riding style.

So, you are saying they are crooks!:grin2:

P&L and marketing have everything to do with it. They can probably profit far more through the sales of current generation cycle tires than just about any other tire they currently manufacture. The development costs for run-flat cycle tires has already been incurred and would likely require only minor tweaking. But then, they'd have to market a tire that costs slightly more to manufacture than their already-outrageously-overpriced-non-run-flats... while trying to convince consumers that $300-350 per cycle tire is worth the added cost.


The E3 and E4 may already be designed as run-flat tires, even though Dunlop hasn't (yet) labeled them as such. Car tire manufacturers invest millions in limited production super car tires that only fit one extremely limited production hyper-car. Then there are other applications, such as limited production runs of odd-ball sized aircraft tires derived through new technologies that didnt require improvements to the older tech that successfully shoed the fleet for better than half a century.


Either way, Im more than happy with my Driveguard and pleased to have discovered the additional handling, confidence, enjoyment and comfort it added to my Wing.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
revrunt.


Thank you for the warnings with your 205/60. What model tire was yours? What year is/was your bike? Im glad you were able to effect repairs while under way.
After the burning smell disappeared on my Wing, I drove around with my preload set to zero and didnt smell any new rubber burning. Reports from others with the early GL1800 and 205/60 seemed to indicate that I probably wouldn't rub; other than the tiny high spot on the swing-arm, which should wear away in 100-200 miles. So I assumed thats where the rubber smell was coming from before it disappeared. I should also add that it only did it while turning, I think in a left turn. So that seemed to indicate the suspected swing-arm rub. I'll put the bike up on the lift in the next few days and look for any new rub marks on the upper inner fender panel, as you had suggested. Do you think I will be able to see if Im still rubbing any plastic without removing that darn wheel again?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
@Revnut had me worried about potentially rubbing the inner fender with the 205/60... so I removed the tire to inspect the inner fender well for any new rub marks. Luckily, the only new rubs came from the very left lower corner of the fender (which is insignificant), and the small contact area on the swing arm (again, expected with the 205/60 and nothing to worry about) as it quickly wears down. I did go ahead and drill a few holes in the plastic inner fender well to secure some zip ties, just to make sure everything remained in place and away from the tire.
As expected, the tire took some wrestling to remove but wasn't too bad. But putting it back on was A REAL MOTHER!!! I had to let the air out of the tire and use a garbage bag to help slip it into place. For some reason, it was more difficult this time than the first time, and took the better part of an hour to get it in. What a workout. Im glad I wont have to do that again for another 20-30k.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Another advantage of the taller 205/60 Driveguard is its now much easier to put the bike on the center stand. Compared to the stock cycle tire, Id guess it requires 2/3rds the amount of downward force to lift the bike onto the stand. Free Easylift anyone? I should also mention that I keep my suspension setting at the max 25 and keep it there, regardless of the rear tire mounted or weight on the bike. It has always handled better that way and remained compliant enough for me.



To lift both tires for long term storage or maintenance, a 3/4 inch piece of plywood under the center stand, with a small scissor jack under the font of the engine case does the trick.
 

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If DS continues to grow as it already is, it seems logical that industry will recognize the opportunity to provide modern radial run-flat cycle tires and never turn back. It all seems so simple and logical to me... so Im sticking with it!! :nerd:
This is resurrecting an old thread, and I'd like to be wrong about this, but I'm thinking that we won't see a CT developed for motorcycles anytime soon because there's a negative feedback loop. I don't foresee any motorcycle manufacturers close to specifying a CT for a motorcycle, which will discourages the tire manufacturers from researching/designing/marketing one. And why should they? They're already selling car tires they have to motorcycles darksiders, so I don't see that there's an incentive for tire manufacturers to spend the R&D, marketing, and distribution money to make an auto-style motorcycle tire. I wish this weren't true, but I think it is.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
This is resurrecting an old thread, and I'd like to be wrong about this, but I'm thinking that we won't see a CT developed for motorcycles anytime soon because there's a negative feedback loop. I don't foresee any motorcycle manufacturers close to specifying a CT for a motorcycle, which will discourages the tire manufacturers from researching/designing/marketing one. And why should they? They're already selling car tires they have to motorcycles darksiders, so I don't see that there's an incentive for tire manufacturers to spend the R&D, marketing, and distribution money to make an auto-style motorcycle tire. I wish this weren't true, but I think it is.

My opinion has changed and I tend to agree. After spending more time flogging my Driveguard and reading all the positive comments concerning this tire and the Pirelli Snowcontrol and P1 offerings, I doubt experienced DS riders would swap unless something truly miraculous came to market. A stiffer/less compliant carcass to allow run-flat capabilities on high performance heavy touring motorcycle tires would probably challenge the limits of technology and physics. As I mentioned in another thread, if I somehow destroy my Driveguard while away from home and have to get a motorcycle tire mounted to get home, it will be replaced with another Driveguard (or similar) upon my return before my Wing is ridden again.:grin2:
 

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loved your write up on darkside experence

My opinion has changed and I tend to agree. After spending more time flogging my Driveguard and reading all the positive comments concerning this tire and the Pirelli Snowcontrol and P1 offerings, I doubt experienced DS riders would swap unless something truly miraculous came to market. A stiffer/less compliant carcass to allow run-flat capabilities on high performance heavy touring motorcycle tires would probably challenge the limits of technology and physics. As I mentioned in another thread, if I somehow destroy my Driveguard while away from home and have to get a motorcycle tire mounted to get home, it will be replaced with another Driveguard (or similar) upon my return before my Wing is ridden again.:grin2:


I'm just starting on the darkside experience. Just mounted a Bridgestone Potenza 195/55/16 liked the symmetrical tread pattern. I'm am also getting ready to go double dark with a BT 45 front,thanks for the info.
As I read your article I realized I had the same exact experience as you. from the mounting problems to the first wonky ride feel on uneven terrain. I thought I would never get the tire into the wheel well. Bike on its side and the tire would not fit I tried everything Windex, furniture polish. plastic bag, eventually a 2 foot crow bar. all to no avail.
Exasperated and in total frustration I was ready to give up. How could it be that others had mounter the same size tire and I could not get it to fit, also I thought If I ever got it up in how the **** would I ever get it out.
I finally took that frustrated pause I couldn't believe the experiment was going to end unfinished to say I was upset was an understatement. I decided the only thing I had not done was change the suspension setting. I to was set at 25 so I lowered it to 0 I knew it wasn't going to help but it was the only thing I hadn't tried, and if that didn't work I was done with the whole thing reinstall the MT and be done with it. To my surprise the tire slid right in no effort at all as easy as done.
I think what happened with the swing arm pushed all the way down as it would have been at the 25 setting the distance between the fat edge of the tire and the first tight spot the inner fender and amplifier regulator was to close together and the hub and lug nut studs could not pass. By lowering the suspension setting to zero the distance between the tire and the tight was increased allowing the tire and rim to slide right in.


Thanks again for your great write up. Try lowering the suspension next time:wink2:
 
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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
I'm just starting on the darkside experience. Just mounted a Bridgestone Potenza 195/55/16 liked the symmetrical tread pattern. I'm am also getting ready to go double dark with a BT 45 front,thanks for the info.
As I read your article I realized I had the same exact experience as you. from the mounting problems to the first wonky ride feel on uneven terrain. I thought I would never get the tire into the wheel well. Bike on its side and the tire would not fit I tried everything Windex, furniture polish. plastic bag, eventually a 2 foot crow bar. all to no avail.
Exasperated and in total frustration I was ready to give up. How could it be that others had mounter the same size tire and I could not get it to fit, also I thought If I ever got it up in how the **** would I ever get it out.
I finally took that frustrated pause I couldn't believe the experiment was going to end unfinished to say I was upset was an understatement. I decided the only thing I had not done was change the suspension setting. I to was set at 25 so I lowered it to 0 I knew it wasn't going to help but it was the only thing I hadn't tried, and if that didn't work I was done with the whole thing reinstall the MT and be done with it. To my surprise the tire slid right in no effort at all as easy as done.
I think what happened with the swing arm pushed all the way down as it would have been at the 25 setting the distance between the fat edge of the tire and the first tight spot the inner fender and amplifier regulator was to close together and the hub and lug nut studs could not pass. By lowering the suspension setting to zero the distance between the tire and the tight was increased allowing the tire and rim to slide right in.


Thanks again for your great write up. Try lowering the suspension next time:wink2:

Thanks for your input and welcome to the Dark Side. I understand your frustration in trying to get the wheel well to accept the car tire. Sometimes they seem to go right in, other times not. My car tire is a good deal wider and taller than yours (205/60R16) and initially refused to go in. But others were able to get their early model GL1800's (bikes without rear external audio amp) to accept the same size, so I persevered till it finally went in. It was simply a matter of finding the sweet spot (angle and position) for it to slide on a large doubled-up heavy duty garbage bag. The slippery plastic-to-plastic surface provides very little friction and definitely helped identify the area where the tire would slide in. I never thought to change the suspension setting because it only changes the preload, which has no effect on the swing arm position until the bike is upright and laden with weight. With the bike on its side, it makes no difference. So I suspect you just happened to find the "sweet-spot".:grin2:
I removed my car tire once to check for possible inner fender clearance issues and was astounded how difficult it was to remove and put back on the bike. As with the first time it went on, pressure and leverage weren't the only critical factors that lead to my success. It mostly came down to finding that sweet-spot again for it to slide into position. At the moment it FINALLY started to slide into place, I couldn't see where the tire was to replicate the maneuver in the future... because I was moving the tire every which way with the bike on its side when it finally went in. My greatest assistance came from letting the air out of the tire, the large heavy duty garbage bag and not giving up.

Most importantly, how do you like your new tire so far? Is it a run-flat model? Ive read that the Potenze can take 3,000 miles to wear-in so it tracks properly on the GL1800, but YMMV.
 
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