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Been away for awhile and was wondering if they have come up with a kit for the DIY riders. This was talked about awhile back but havent heard anything so just wondering if I missed something.


Mark
 

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Hi Mark,

Our charge to install the kit is only $150. That includes

1. Complete disassembly and inspection.

2. The tubes are checked for runout and straightened if necessary.

3. The parts are washed in a $9,000 ultrasonic parts washer.

4. The tubes are polished on a special machine we have to make the finished better than it was new.

5. The left fork tube is modified to accept the kit.

6. The fork are reassembled using new seals (with a special low drag seal grease) and bushings as required, the forks are bled and the oil level set, and the springs installed (this requires a special spring compressor).

The tools alone required to do the installation cost far more than what we charge to do the job, so we haven't really had anyone who decided it wasn't to their advantage to send them in for the initial build.

Currently we still won't even sell the kit to a "Dealer" unless they physically come to our shop to be trained on the installation. We need to insure that anyone we allow to put the kit in, will get the same results as if we did it ourselves here.

So it will be a while before we sell it "over the counter".

We have just finished editing our "GL1800 Suspension Seminar" from Wingstock. I will have it reproduced and available on our website and on a DVD, which we will mail out to folks in the USA for free.

I should have them available within two weeks.

:)
 

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Don't know about the new but they will be short one complete set of 1800 upgrades next week after I leave there.
 

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Max McAllister said:
Hi Mark,

Our charge to install the kit is only $150. That includes
1. Complete disassembly and inspection.
I have done this before
[quote:t3me0f54]2. The tubes are checked for runout and straightened if necessary.
done this too
3. The parts are washed in a $9,000 ultrasonic parts washer.
nope !! just washed by hand...still clean though
4. The tubes are polished on a special machine we have to make the finished better than it was new.
THIS I really dont know about??? jewlers rouge "should work though
5. The left fork tube is modified to accept the kit.
I dont think this is a "killer" deal
6. The fork are reassembled using new seals (with a special low drag seal grease) and bushings as required, the forks are bled and the oil level set, and the springs installed (this requires a special spring compressor).
How do the people install the springs that DONT get the full kit?? & the grease can be sent with
The tools alone required to do the installation cost far more than what we charge to do the job, so we haven't really had anyone who decided it wasn't to their advantage to send them in for the initial build.
I believe that was answered by the original post+ me
Currently we still won't even sell the kit to a "Dealer" unless they physically come to our shop to be trained on the installation. We need to insure that anyone we allow to put the kit in, will get the same results as if we did it ourselves here.

So it will be a while before we sell it "over the counter"
.
Dont you sell the "kit" overseas????
We have just finished editing our "GL1800 Suspension Seminar" from Wingstock. I will have it reproduced and available on our website and on a DVD, which we will mail out to folks in the USA for free.
I REALLY missed coming to wingstock!1 D^%$#
I should have them available within two weeks.
THANK YOU & I really meen it as I am VERY interested
:)[/quote:t3me0f54] My problem is shipping to & from increases the price difference & also as I have but one set of forks IF something happens in shipping!! (LOST &/or damage ) I am out a set of forks untill the problems are solved!!!!! so whenever you decide that we mere mortals in the states can do the same maintanence as people across the pond PLEASE let us know when the do it youself kit is available...thankyou & no disresspect meant & was not trying to be a smart ass...chuck..feel free to pm me if you want!!PS I REALLY wanted to make wingstock!! the dreaded WORK popped up again..
 

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Hi Chuck,

No worries. We did send a kit overseas a couple of times... one of the guys claimed to be expert, have done lots of forks, had a machine shop, etc etc... first thing that happened was the owner got on this board and asked the LISTERS here how to install it.... We haven't sold one that way since.

If you actually did loose your forks, we could ship you another set. We have several we could kit up and get to you the next day.

For the record, we ship hundreds and hundreds of sets of forks each year, and in nine years, we have had one set lost and one set stolen off a doorstep. That would be out of 10,000 roughly sets... so the odds are in your favor I would say.

:wink:

I may do an installation video in the near future.
 

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Max McAllister said:
Hi Chuck,

No worries. We did send a kit overseas a couple of times... one of the guys claimed to be expert, have done lots of forks, had a machine shop, etc etc... first thing that happened was the owner got on this board and asked the LISTERS here how to install it.... We haven't sold one that way since.

If you actually did loose your forks, we could ship you another set. We have several we could kit up and get to you the next day.

For the record, we ship hundreds and hundreds of sets of forks each year, and in nine years, we have had one set lost and one set stolen off a doorstep. That would be out of 10,000 roughly sets... so the odds are in your favor I would say.

:wink:

I may do an installation video in the near future.
Thanks for anserwing !! So one guy screws it up for me & everone else who like to work on his own bike D%$#..LOL I like the fact that your stuff is made here (USA)!! Ialso REALLY enjoy working on my own "stuff" & finding out how & why it works & wonder how it can be designed in one area so well & another so crappy (as in forks) it amazes me...... I will be waiting for your "kit" so PLEASE make it available this winter...if not then I might have to use those "other " fork parts (yes I know they are not as good BUT they are better (than stock) & available as a "KIT"/parts...chuck PS still pissed at work for missing wingstock!!!!! I hope you have this next year..THANKS....
 

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I would also love to see a kit for the DIY crowd. Only $150 can quickly turn into $250 counting shipping. I feel more comfortable with wrenches than trying to package a good set of forks for UPS. A kit would open a new market for the DIY crowd. If it were rocket science $150 would not cover the installation. No pun intended, you have a great product from what I have read.
I do have the springs, the instructions were very confusing. Installation was breeze.
 

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1st Wing said:
I would also love to see a kit for the DIY crowd. Only $150 can quickly turn into $250 counting shipping. I feel more comfortable with wrenches than trying to package a good set of forks for UPS. A kit would open a new market for the DIY crowd. If it were rocket science $150 would not cover the installation. No pun intended, you have a great product from what I have read.
I do have the springs, the instructions were very confusing. Installation was breeze.
I also asked Max for a DIY kit. As a machinist with my own shop I felt more than qualified to do the work. Max replied much in the same manner that he did for this post and I decided to send him the tubes for an install. $150 for installation seems very reasonable to me. I assume the price of a DIY kit would be a little higher to recover the cost of packaging and preparing instruction manuals. So the $150.0 savings just became smaller. Just my opinion.

I have to differ with your estimate of $100 for shipping. I just shipped my tubes from Ohio packed in a very heavy box with lots of wrapping for $27.00. This included $1000.00 insurance. I don't forsee return shipping to be much more. Don't forget that you will probably have shipping/handling costs for any "kit" that is sent out.
 

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Max McAllister said:
We have just finished editing our "GL1800 Suspension Seminar" from Wingstock. I will have it reproduced and available on our website and on a DVD, which we will mail out to folks in the USA for free.

I should have them available within two weeks.

:)
Oooooo. I can't wait.
Camera dude didn't interview me though :cry: He looked at my dirty bike, shuddered, and moved over to Paul's bike...
 

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Hi 1st Wing,

It's true that what we do is not rocket science.

Dentistry is not rocket science, either. My dentist charges $150 dollars to fill a cavity, but I am not going to get a drill out to fix my wife's toothache. :wink: :lol:

For all of the DIYers,

Let me explain my position a little further.

When I first founded Traxxion in Feb of 98 I was trained by Race Tech to be an authorized installer of their parts. In the next three years, 50+% of all the service revenue my company generated was repairing badly botched Gold Valve installations. No company in the world, never mind America, installed and serviced more RT forks than Traxxion, except for RT themselves.

There is absolutely NOTHING anyone could do to a GV kit I haven't seen. I have even seen the GV, which is a compression piston, installed onto the end of the cartridge rod (where the rebound piston goes), not less than 10 times! About half of those people thought they had done a "perfect" installation, and didn't know anything was wrong!!! A couple of them had even bragged to their friends just how "easy to do" it was.

This is what happens when people refuse to read instructions. There is no such thing as "Simple instructions" for something like this. Not less than a hundred times, I have see the absolute total destruction of delicate damping components to where they had to be THROWN OUT, and couldn't even be repaired. Can you imagine the LIABILITY associated with this? It simply isn't worth whatever money we stand to make selling a kit to have someone sue us for $10,000,000 because they did the work themselves and then crashed their bike because the forks didn't work.

Not that anyone in America would sue anybody... :wink:

Now you say, "yeah but those people weren't a good mechanic like me" or "my friend who used to work on dirt bikes when he was a pro racer" or "Joe Wrench, the Registered Honda Tech at my local bike shop".

Well, 75% of those repairs we did weren't caused by DIYers. They were done by Race Tech Centers, and by factory trained Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki and Yamaha technicians, working professionally on motorcycles, in well equipped shops.

There's not less than 10 things you could do wrong just assembling the base valve (in a cartridge fork) that you would never even know you had screwed up. They aren't written in any instructions.

How do I know this? Because I too have screwed up lots of things inside of forks while I was learning. BTW, I was a professional, factory trained mechanic for 15 years before I ever even opened a fork cartridge. I have personally changed more fork seals than every DIYer reading this forum COMBINED. I thought I knew what I was doing...

I have found it to be a fact that people simply won't read instructions, regardless of how clearly or simply they are written. That is how RT kits are pretty much never installed properly.

As a result of watching that, I decided when we first had piston kits, we wouldn't sell them over the counter. RT claims "if you can install a fork seal, you can install our kit". That simply couldn't be farther from the truth. We have made a lot of money over the years from this simple statement. :lol:

The bottom line is, if you don't work on suspension daily, as a profession, then you won't even know the things you screw up, because it isn't your profession.

When we evolved our kits into complete subassemblies, I still wouldn't sell our kits over the counter. I have seen the destruction that takes place of people just trying to get into and out of the cartridges.

Think about it.... do a search on this site, and see just how many times some guy on here has posted a thread "FORK OIL CHANGE" and then asked "HOW DO I GET THE BOTTOM DRAIN BOLT OUT". You will be surprised. That is exactly the guy who shouldn't be working on his suspension. The bottom bolt isn't a "drain". IT HOLDS THE WHOLE FORK TOGETHER!!! :shock:

Now that we have a complete, total replacement component, that is pretty much bolt up, I found right away, people will claim to be totally competent, and can rebuild their Wing every nut and bolt... when I sell a kit, they get on an internet list and start asking chat room visitors how to install a fork cartridge kit... I simply can't have that.

One key reason people are so happy with our kit is because up until now, I know they have all been installed properly and checked.

Over the course of 9 years, I can only recall less than 5 people who absolutely insisted if they couldn't work on their own bike, that they would go buy someone else's parts. While you hate to loose a potential customer, it isn't exactly an epidemic.

In the past, we were roughly comparing apples to apples, as we both (RT and Traxxion) sold "rebuild upgrades". But now, there is no comparison to the parts they sell for a GL and our complete set of replacement cartridges.

What I have thought about doing for die hard DIYers is to make an installation video, and then have a test they have to mail or fax in so that I know they watched the DVD and paid attention. THEN we would mail out a kit. If that wouldn't offend them, I would probably be willing to do that.

I will have my GL1800 suspension video (that explains how it works, and what's wrong with it) available any day (for free) and I will mail you a copy. Send me your mailing address to my email, [email protected]

Hope this explains a little more the basis of my fears, and why we don't want to mail out our kits for DIY installation.

:)
 

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Max, do you post a list of those shops or installers who have completed your training? I don't see any links on your website.

thanks,
Jerry
 

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azjerry said:
Max, do you post a list of those shops or installers who have completed your training? I don't see any links on your website.

thanks,
Jerry
That's coming soon. Right now the list is short, so I can tell you!

JBJ Cycles in Santa Ana, CA
Wingworx in Sacramento, CA will be here next Monday
Southwest Suspensions in Phoenix
Lithium Motorsports in Iowa
G&D Trikes in Illinois
Motovation Cycles and Accessories in Maryland
Raceworx in Texas
Gary's Hobbies in Atlanta
Verhulst Bikes-n-Trikes in Commerce, GA
and last...
We are in Woodstock, GA
 

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Raceworx

Max, When are you going to be at RaceWorx! I need to know, I may bring you a bike!
 

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Max,
As you could tell by my post I was trying to sway you to the DIY side. I think the wrenching is part of the whole motorcycle experience.
Turning wrenches is what I do for a living, not on something clean as a Motorcycle. Worked for 17 years as a toolmaker so I like the mechanical. Agreed America has become feeding gounds for lawyers. I can see your point on a kit but agree to disagree. Still would like to see one.
If nothing changes my next major purchase will be your suspension. Your springs made a large difference in holding a line thru a curve but still not there as far the ride goes. Looking forward to the next step. :D
 

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Re: Raceworx

bnickle said:
Max, When are you going to be at RaceWorx! I need to know, I may bring you a bike!
I am not likely to be there anytime soon. The owner Jim Cambora, happens to ride a wing himself... but then again he weighs in at over 400#, so a Nighthawk 250 wasn't really suited to him! :wink: Jim is a BIG fella!

I have known him from the racing side for probably 8 years. He is an ace tuner with a bike.

His shop is located on the Cresson Motorsports Ranch. Call him and get on him to come test drive his bike. 817-512-4393.
 

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I'm one of those overseas guys who installed the traxxion kit (front only) himself. Allthough I don't claim to be an expert mechanic I will do some wrenching on my own bike.

The install didn't go smooth. As allways there's a 50/50 split in who is to 'blame'. I installed the right side and that went pretty good, allthough I had only an email with specific 1800 instructions. The standard instruction that came with the set did not mention anything specific for the 1800 adjustments so that's why there were some instructions in the email.

The left leg went bad. At first I replaced the inner stuff without the adjustments mentioned in the instruction because I couldn't figure out what the machining part would achieve. After a discussion on the phone with Traxxion staff, I took the left fork apart again and ... screwed it up by machining too much off so it couldn´t be reinstalled. That was expensive.

Second attempt went as planned and the fork is in one piece again and working great.

I did ask for pictures or a movie on the install, that would have been a great help but maybe my question was just to soon. I never received pictures. To make matters more difficult it appeared that the standard set was sent which obviously missed some special 1800 parts, allthough the packing had GL1800 written on it. Last point: you better take into account you have to fabricate some kind of tool to get the top spacer on and push/pull it down to reinstall the nut holding the spacer permanently down. On the OEM right side it's a breeze, not so on the traxxion kit.

In hindsight I can appreciate Max´s doubts because no one can display the required knowledge by e-mail or phone. If Max could SEE you work on your bike he might get the confidence needed, but that would be impossible or he would have to offer a working space in his shop for DIY types.

On the plus side on things: my bike is better than before AND I can install traxxion front fork kits in Europe if I would apply as a mechanic <G>.
 

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For those wanting to save the money, I recommend you save it by doing your own RR of the rear shock (generally about $250) and RR the front forks (about $100). Why take a chance making a mistake on installation and smelling up your garage with dirty fork oil for $150? The cleaning of the forks alone is a messy job when you don't have a shop set up for it. But the RR is not hard, especially with Fred's entertainment videos.
 

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gpick said:
For those wanting to save the money, I recommend you save it by doing your own RR of the rear shock (generally about $250) and RR the front forks (about $100). Why take a chance making a mistake on installation and smelling up your garage with dirty fork oil for $150? The cleaning of the forks alone is a messy job when you don't have a shop set up for it. But the RR is not hard, especially with Fred's entertainment videos.
IF I decide to do my own forks then I will do the R&R ALSO!!!..............IT IS NOT (ALL) ABOUT MONEY!!!!!!! NOBODY cares about my A$$ more than me!!!! not you not max not ANYBODY ..I like to do all my own work..If I screw it up I pay the bill one way or another!!!!! ,,I am 51 years old have been working on bikes since I was about 12...yep I have had some BIG screwups I PAID..& hopefully I learned.....chuck..PS MAX I got your PM thanks for the offer I am thinking on it !! but as you say you want to make sure its rite so do I cause its MY a$$ If I have you do them what makes you think I couldnt screw them up at a later date..I dont plan to send them to you every 20,000 miles. ...one more time it is not all about the cash!!!!
 

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We are going to come up with an AK-20 Fork Oil Change DVD (as soon as I get the bill paid for the production of the Wingstock DVD). I do understand that changing the oil isn't hard for a decent mechanic.

Our kit does require a spring compressor. If you live in the US, we will have a "loaner tool" we can send out to DIYers as long as they pay the freight each way. That tool is $399, so I don't think most people will want to buy it. We do have a set of hand tools, that are only $35, but it will take two people and it will be a wrestling match. The shop tool we have you can use one finger to operate.
 

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Max
Since my preload does not kick in until 12 I'm considering removing my rear shock and sending/bringing it to y'all sometime this winter. How long does the front rebuild last and does this rebuild cure the problem with seal leaks on the front forks?? I ride an 02 with 35,000 mile on the clock and have yet to have a seal leak.
 
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