[steve1951.sm]

Are you saying that both your Display AND your Audio unit are bad? When they put the replacement audio unit in the bike, was the display still blank?

What type and brand of lithium battery did you install?

yes the display was blank with good audio unit from a other bike, Battery is brand is NOCO NLP20, ordered a yusa and installed o change

 

[steve1951.sm]

The more you modify any vehicle the more risk you take in getting warranty work done. Adding a trike kit, CB radio, an aftermarket battery with different technology isn't necessarily bad but it does give the manufacturer concern or at least someone to point fingers at. I believe (don't know for sure) that the LCD display is a part of the core motorcycle. It is needed for motorcycle operations. The black box under / behind the seat is the audio / nav equipment not covered in the extended warranty. I would think it could be removed and sent out for repair at the owner's expense.

have not found any service centers foor the unit . Any ideas where/

 

[dbmachine]

The voltage drop (weak battery) you mention interests me. Similar threads of this nature blame a low battery for these fuses to blow. Maybe somebody more knowledgeable can explain, but I cannot see how a low battery can actually increase current flow to the point it blows a fuse (I always thought a low battery would reduce current flow to the connected circuitry). I did a google search "can a low battery cause blown fuses" and got some results that indicated it could, but the explanations did not make sense to me. Does ohms law not apply here?

Ohms law. Voltage drops resistance goes up to offset the difference

have not found any service centers foor the unit . Any ideas where/

there are no service centers that repair these units. Couple guys in the Goldwing community are working on this issue to see if it’s possible to repair these faulty Audio Units. One guy reported that his dealer told him that Honda had over 100+ of these shorted out units in a warehouse stockpiled.

 

[almostretired]

Ohms law. Voltage drops resistance goes up to offset the difference

there are no service centers that repair these units. Couple guys in the Goldwing community are working on this issue to see if it’s possible to repair these faulty Audio Units. One guy reported that his dealer told him that Honda had over 100+ of these shorted out units in a warehouse stockpiled.

Voltage dropping does not cause resistance to change - As voltage is reduced, current is reduced unless something else independently changes the DC resistance (or AC reactance). Ohms law (E = I * R) simply states the relationship between voltage (E), current (I) and resistance (R).

 

[Al P.]

Today's bike computers/Can-Bus systems considered sensitive electronic devices, more then ever before. Lots of data runs through them per second. I am in the semi-conductor business and in my field, all of our equipment have so many voltage and spike stabilizers/protectors + UPC computer control distributions. Now, although you can't compare the applications, its the same principle. It's possible that Honda, a bit, under estimated the sensitivity of it's electronic equipment on board under normal condition/environment vs lab environment, we don't know. It's also possible that the main computer/GPS/screen info will need a filtered electronic regulator to satisfy the over/under supply. CPU's love even and steady power supply, that is the bottom line. This might wake Honda or may not. We are learning more and about our machines. My protection will be to replace the batt like a filter cabin in my Jeep. I am ok with that.

 

[almostretired]

Today's bike computers/Can-Bus systems considered sensitive electronic devices, more then ever before. Lots of data runs through them per second. I am in the semi-conductor business and in my field, all of our equipment have so many voltage and spike stabilizers/protectors + UPC computer control distributions. Now, although you can't compare the applications, its the same principle. It's possible that Honda, a bit, under estimated the sensitivity of it's electronic equipment on board under normal condition/environment vs lab environment, we don't know. It's also possible that the main computer/GPS/screen info will need a filtered electronic regulator to satisfy the over/under supply. CPU's love even and steady power supply, that is the bottom line. This might wake Honda or may not. We are learning more and about our machines. My protection will be to replace the batt like a filter cabin in my Jeep. I am ok with that.

We may be talking about two different issues - it's been a while since I've been involved in this sort of thing, but in the commercial airplane industry, aircraft systems are these days similarly interfaced via a network bus structure. We used CAN bus to interface flight control computers to the servos that move the control surfaces on some airplanes. Here we test for EMI, High intensity RF, Power quality, vibration and other things with the idea being that such upsets do not cause undetected data corruption on the bus resulting in unintended flight surface movement among other issues (basically any unexpected anomalous behavior of the system). Of course, the standards for aircraft certification are stratospherically higher than for automotive electronics, but I would guess that there are some standards followed by the Honda's. Toyota's, Ford, etc. How a device behaves under too high and too low power input conditions is a basic quality test.

For our Goldwing audio units, we are specifically talking about the theory that low battery voltage is somehow "frying" the audio unit into a permanent fault state due to physical damage of a component in the audio unit. Here my thought is that lower battery voltage should result in lower current and therefore less power required to be dissipated in an electronics box. The most common parts failure in electronics is caused when the device is required to dissipate more power than it can handle. I've seen the tops blown completely off ICs when some failure caused too much voltage to be applied to a power or input pin, but never during a power quality test were a lower than rated voltage was applied to a box (but just because I've never seen it does not mean it has never happened, just trying to understand the failure condition).

Nonetheless, I tried poking around the internet - some of the ideas expressed about low power damaging electronics either envisioned this problem along with an additional wiring problem, or some theory that didn't make sense to me (such as the thought that low voltage somehow destroyed capacitors). Admittedly I'm not an expert on these types of failure modes (so one would naturally ask then why the heck am I even "chiming in"), so there may be something I'm missing.

 

[Al P.]

We may be talking about two different issues - it's been a while since I've been involved in this sort of thing, but in the commercial airplane industry, aircraft systems are these days similarly interfaced via a network bus structure. We used CAN bus to interface flight control computers to the servos that move the control surfaces on some airplanes. Here we test for EMI, High intensity RF, Power quality, vibration and other things with the idea being that such upsets do not cause undetected data corruption on the bus resulting in unintended flight surface movement among other issues (basically any unexpected anomalous behavior of the system). Of course, the standards for aircraft certification are stratospherically higher than for automotive electronics, but I would guess that there are some standards followed by the Honda's. Toyota's, Ford, etc. How a device behaves under too high and too low power input conditions is a basic quality test.

For our Goldwing audio units, we are specifically talking about the theory that low battery voltage is somehow "frying" the audio unit into a permanent fault state due to physical damage of a component in the audio unit. Here my thought is that lower battery voltage should result in lower current and therefore less power required to be dissipated in an electronics box. The most common parts failure in electronics is caused when the device is required to dissipate more power than it can handle. I've seen the tops blown completely off ICs when some failure caused too much voltage to be applied to a power or input pin, but never during a power quality test were a lower than rated voltage was applied to a box (but just because I've never seen it does not mean it has never happened, just trying to understand the failure condition).

Nonetheless, I tried poking around the internet - some of the ideas expressed about low power damaging electronics either envisioned this problem along with an additional wiring problem, or some theory that didn't make sense to me (such as the thought that low voltage somehow destroyed capacitors). Admittedly I'm not an expert on these types of failure modes (so one would naturally ask then why the heck am I even "chiming in"), so there may be something I'm missing.

I am limited to the electronics on the bike. Its surly pretty much involved per the service book I have. I just hope that Honda is already sleeping on this without taking ZZZZ Quall 🍷

 

[dbmachine]

All the information that I have gathered from all the failures with the audio systems whether it be on Goldwing forums or Goldwing FB groups is that almost every failure was due to a battery voltage problem. Starting the bike with a weak battery, starting the bike with loose battery terminals, using a lithium battery for the first time, using a batteries + store Duracell brand battery for the first time. Yes one dealer actually told an owner that the Duracell battery caused his audio unit to fail. There was one instance that the optional power harness that is used for adding the upgraded Honda high power amplifier was cracked causing the power and ground pins inside the harness to touch causing the audio fuse to blow. This harness is located underneath the passenger grab handles. The owner remembered hitting a large size bump on the hwy when his display went blank. Took quite a while for the dealer to figure out what was causing the issue. Fuses popped even after using a good audio module from Honda. They traced every wire and that’s when harness plug was discovered to be cracked which the repair fixed the fuse blowing issue and also there was NO damage to the audio unit. Everything was back to normal. That was the only account I can remember having audio fuses to pop but his audio unit was never damaged through the ordeal. Heck one guy on the forum installed a lithium battery in reverse polarity for almost a minute which completely melted down his main fuse holder. He replaced the damaged parts and started the bike and had no issues at all except for his pride for hooking up the terminals backwards.

 

[almostretired]

All the information that I have gathered from all the failures with the audio systems whether it be on Goldwing forums or Goldwing FB groups is that almost every failure was due to a battery voltage problem. Starting the bike with a weak battery, starting the bike with loose battery terminals, using a lithium battery for the first time, using a batteries + store Duracell brand battery for the first time. Yes one dealer actually told an owner that the Duracell battery caused his audio unit to fail. There was one instance that the optional power harness that is used for adding the upgraded Honda high power amplifier was cracked causing the power and ground pins inside the harness to touch causing the audio fuse to blow. This harness is located underneath the passenger grab handles. The owner remembered hitting a large size bump on the hwy when his display went blank. Took quite a while for the dealer to figure out what was causing the issue. Fuses popped even after using a good audio module from Honda. They traced every wire and that’s when harness plug was discovered to be cracked which the repair fixed the fuse blowing issue and also there was NO damage to the audio unit. Everything was back to normal. That was the only account I can remember having audio fuses to pop but his audio unit was never damaged through the ordeal. Heck one guy on the forum installed a lithium battery in reverse polarity for almost a minute which completely melted down his main fuse holder. He replaced the damaged parts and started the bike and had no issues at all except for his pride for hooking up the terminals backwards.

Sounds like from what you are saying, if Honda was really interested in this problem, that it should be easily repeatable? How many separate failures have you been able to gather info on?

 

[dbmachine]

Sounds like from what you are saying, if Honda was really interested in this problem, that it should be easily repeatable? How many separate failures have you been able to gather info on?

At least 6 that I recall.

 

[dbmachine]

Sounds like from what you are saying, if Honda was really interested in this problem, that it should be easily repeatable? How many separate failures have you been able to gather info on?

I wouldn’t think Honda would be interested at all, but hopefully to the ones that have had a failure out of warranty and to the ones of us that could have this issue in the future out of warranty that someone with the electronics knowledge can repair the audio unit at a reasonable cost.3000$ for the audio unit and 2500$ for the display is absurd with labor on top of that

 

[Freyr]

I would be very surprised if the circuit board of the “dead” component doesn’t show visible signs of heat or component failure. You can’t blow a 15 Amp fuse without an equal reaction, somewhere else in the circuit. The power supply/regulator on the circuit board would be a good place to start.

 

[dbmachine]

For the ones that are more knowledgeable in circuits here is a link to pics of the boards of the audio unit.

MKCAU Infotainment headunit Teardown Internal Photos External Photos Harman Automotive Electronic Systems (Suzhou)

Infotainment headunit Internal Photos v1 details for FCC ID 2ACRLMKCAU made by Harman Automotive Electronic Systems (Suzhou) Co., Ltd. Document Includes Internal Photos External Photos

fccid.io

 

[Fred H.]

yes the display was blank with good audio unit from a other bike, Battery is brand is NOCO NLP20, ordered a yusa and installed o change

Please check the two fuses next to the battery. If the ACC fuse is blown or has dirty contacts, it will prevent the display from coming on, even after a known good audio unit is installed. This fuse holder is known to get filled with road dirt and cause issues.

 

[mrmagloo]

We need to 'encourage' some enterprising GW vendor to come up with a way to weather-proof these two fuses. Seems very odd that Honda would intentionally leave these exposed.

 

[Al P.]

Very simple fix. Its an area we usually don't touch. Permatex RTV. Open the 2 fuse housing covers, clean with IPA all around it's lips. Take a Q-Tip or very fine craft brush and run a THIN coat all around. Close it back up, she is sealed. No issue to re-open once its dry. Permatex also have quick try, Black RTV. You could even use GE, outdoor Silicon.

 

[Roadie]

Why couldn't you simply take a plastic bag and place it over the fuse box using a wire tie at the bottom to hold the baggie in place.

 

[Al P.]

Why couldn't you simply take a plastic bag and place it over the fuse box using a wire tie at the bottom to hold the baggie in place.

Not sure if it will block condensation as well. Dirt and dust, yes. Not sure if the wires going into the fuse box are sealed too. If not, then its a good approach too. Going check that out. Never thought about it.

 

[Fred H.]

Very simple fix. Its an area we usually don't touch. Permatex RTV. Open the 2 fuse housing covers, clean with IPA all around it's lips. Take a Q-Tip or very fine craft brush and run a THIN coat all around. Close it back up, she is sealed. No issue to re-open once its dry. Permatex also have quick try, Black RTV. You could even use GE, outdoor Silicon.

I haven't thoroughly investigated it, but the moisture instrusion may be coming in from the bottom of the fuse holder assy where the wires come thru it. If that's the case, sealing the top won't solve the problem. Mine has a large rubber sheath coming up to the bottom side, so it's a little hard to access to see whats going on there. The plastic baggie trick might be a good solution. Or dare I say it, use a condom on it.

 

[Al P.]

I haven't thoroughly investigated it, but the moisture instrusion may be coming in from the bottom of the fuse holder assy where the wires come thru it. If that's the case, sealing the top won't solve the problem. Mine has a large rubber sheath coming up to the bottom side, so it's a little hard to access to see whats going on there. The plastic baggie trick might be a good solution. Or dare I say it, use a condom on it.

6th Gen Trojan for GW. I like that....!!!! For sure, if the bottom is not sealed, I might as well shove my idea somewhere. I will check too, this weekend. I believe, the whole housing can click out, not much wire play.