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Discussion Starter #1
So as to not hijack another thread, I'm putting this in the 2018 forum.

I did some current testing to see how much the bike draws.
These are the results:

The shop manual for the 2018 says the current draw when off is only 1.2mA, but I think this is either incorrect, or at the least very misleading! As Fred said, in the "off" mode, the bike periodically checks for the presence of the FOB. This happens about 100 times per minute. As best I can estimate, the current draw during this check is somewhere around .025 amps, with a duty cycle I'd estimate at maybe 25%. This calculates out to an average current draw of .0625 amps. This pulsed draw continued at least for 24 hours, way beyond the 3 minutes wait time listed in the shop manual. maybe it eventually drops back, but I wasn't willing to wait that long!

Using the rated capacity of a new battery (20 AH), this gives a total of 133 days, or around 4 months to FULLY discharge the battery.

The end result is that Honda's recommendation, listed earlier by Hulkss to charge the battery if it sits more than 30 days should keep the battery reasonably healthy.

As Roadie said: "I don't worry about it during the riding months and put a battery tender on the battery during the winter"

I also found that the bike stays "active", for about 10 seconds after you switch it off, drawing about .5 amp. Not sure what it's doing, but after 10 seconds it drops down to the on/off cycling, checking for the FOB

"Accessory" mode draws about 1 amp, and the "on" mode draws about 2.5 amp, with the engine not running.
 

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Checking your math...

I think your "average current draw of .0625 amps." should be ~0.00625A (e.g. 6.25mA), based on your estimate of 0.025a (25mA) @ ~25% duty cycle.
 

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I did some current testing to see how much the bike draws.
These are the results:

The shop manual for the 2018 says the current draw when off is only 1.2mA, but I think this is either incorrect, or at the least very misleading! As Fred said, in the "off" mode, the bike periodically checks for the presence of the FOB. This happens about 100 times per minute. As best I can estimate, the current draw during this check is somewhere around .025 amps, with a duty cycle I'd estimate at maybe 25%. This calculates out to an average current draw of .0625 amps. This pulsed draw continued at least for 24 hours, way beyond the 3 minutes wait time listed in the shop manual. maybe it eventually drops back, but I wasn't willing to wait that long!
The shop manual doesn’t say the current draw is going to stop, etc. after 3 minutes. It just says that after you turn the ignition switch off, wait 3 minutes before disconnecting the negative cable.

:doorag:
 

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Checking your math...

I think your "average current draw of .0625 amps." should be ~0.00625A (e.g. 6.25mA), based on your estimate of 0.025a (25mA) @ ~25% duty cycle.
62.5mA is written as .0625 amps in decimal form.:smile2:
 

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Checking your math...

I think your "average current draw of .0625 amps." should be ~0.00625A (e.g. 6.25mA), based on your estimate of 0.025a (25mA) @ ~25% duty cycle.
62.5mA is written as .0625 amps in decimal form.:smile2:
Your statement above is correct.

Thus, 62.5mA times four (inverting your estimated duty cycle) is 250mA, not 25mA [0.025A] as you originally wrote.

Correct?
 

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And seems it will quit checking after sitting for a month:

uWhen the 30 days have passed after the ignition switch is turned to OFF or after the
buttons of the Honda SMART Key is operated, the answer back system will no
longer operate. To reset the system, turn the ignition switch ON once and then OFF.
 

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Hello Robert,

The draw you mentioned seems way higher than what my 2018 non-tour showed. I am curious what the differences are - is it a non-tour or tour model?

After installing a Neutrino distribution module, I checked the parasitic draw of the bike only, then the Neutrino module only, then their combined draw. I used a Fluke model 87 on the milliamp scale:
-bike only: .58ma
-Neutrino only: 2.31ma
-combined: 2.91ma

The Neutrino module was the first accessory I installed, so there was nothing extra on my non-tour but the bike's draw itself. Also, the manufacturer of the Neutrino states that the draw should be less than 4ma depending on how it is configured in the stand-by state. I have it configured to wake up with the key on, so it is in a wait state for that (as opposed to my turning it on manually each time I start the bike).

So the readings I got seemed reasonable for the Neutrino module, and for the bike too as the manual states that the 1.2ma is a maximum. I assume (maybe incorrectly) that it can be less than 1.2ma depending on the factory configuration, and possibly factory options?

If the bike is a tour model, or one with some Honda approved options, would that affect the total draw if there were some more modules that didn't fully shut down with the bike off?

Also, I didn't notice my bike searching for the keyfob and I had the meter hooked up for 30-40 second for each of the checks. I'm sure I would have seen the fluctuations from the 100/minute cycling if my bike was doing that, so that's another question. I turn the fob off when I'm done riding or in the garage. My bike was shut down for 10-15 minutes before I disconnected the negative terminal to hook up the meter, and I am careful to hold the knob to the full off position for several seconds when shutting the bike off so it doesn't go into the accessory mode instead of fully off.

I don't know why the big differences in draw, but would appreciate what other's find out about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
As several have noted, I had a decimal error in my numbers, so my average current draw was .00625, or 6.25 mA..

Second, I was measuring the current the bike will draw if the battery is NOT disconnected. This is what happens if you shut the bike off normally.

The Shop Manual procedure has you disconnect the battery, which stops the interrogation of the FOB. This is not what happens normally when you shut the bike off.


In both cases though, the resulting current draw is VERY low, and I don't see it as an issue for battery life. The battery will self discharge much faster. Because of the self discharge, it's still best to leave a smart charger on the battery, particularly if it's going to sit without being ridden. Moral: Ride often!!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
How did you take the measurement? When I tried with a digital meter the readings were all over the place, I assume due to the activities of the Smart Controller. Did you use an analog meter or somehow average the readings?
A digital meter won't work, as you noted. The only way to get a really accurate reading would be an integrating/averaging meter, so an analog and rough estimation is the only reasonable alternative!

With an analog, you can get a pretty good idea, if the meter is reasonably fast responding. I'm not claiming any great accuracy, just "good enough".
 

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So you have an internal clock always running to know if it has passed 30 days?
Nope.

Just additional info from the manual that may or may not matter to those that are forced to let their wing hibernate.

Speaks to how long the battery might last without being on a tender.


Clearly, better on a tender or disconnected, but sometimes that's not he way things work out.


Also might help someone that thinks their bike is dead, when it really just needs the 'wake-up' procedure.
 

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As several have noted, I had a decimal error in my numbers, so my average current draw was .00625, or 6.25 mA..

Second, I was measuring the current the bike will draw if the battery is NOT disconnected. This is what happens if you shut the bike off normally.

The Shop Manual procedure has you disconnect the battery, which stops the interrogation of the FOB. This is not what happens normally when you shut the bike off.


In both cases though, the resulting current draw is VERY low, and I don't see it as an issue for battery life. The battery will self discharge much faster. Because of the self discharge, it's still best to leave a smart charger on the battery, particularly if it's going to sit without being ridden. Moral: Ride often!!
OK - that explains the difference in my readings. It also shows the importance of knowing what is powered and how/when. The manual method is kind of 'old school' for the newer vehicles with all the various modules, etc.


So to get your amperage reading, did you use a dc clamp probe around a battery cable in combination with your meter, or did you do a voltage drop check across a fuse and then a conversion chart to get the fuse resistance to calculate the estimated current, or?


Also, thanks for your posts - I am learning more about the bike.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
OK - that explains the difference in my readings. It also shows the importance of knowing what is powered and how/when. The manual method is kind of 'old school' for the newer vehicles with all the various modules, etc.


So to get your amperage reading, did you use a dc clamp probe around a battery cable in combination with your meter, or did you do a voltage drop check across a fuse and then a conversion chart to get the fuse resistance to calculate the estimated current, or?


Also, thanks for your posts - I am learning more about the bike.
I used an old analog DC meter, in series between the ground terminal and the battery post. Set to a higher amp scale (0-250mA) for the part where the bike is still doing it's interrogation for the FOB. This lets you see the pulses and make a rough estimate of time and duty cycle. Not accurate, but good enough to get a fair idea on how much it's taking from the battery. (Not much!!)

I then switched to a mA scale digital meter after disconnecting the battery for a short time to stop the FOB interrogation. This is the test in the shop manual (Shop Manual 21-7)

As I noted in prior post, the battery will self discharge way before any significant drain from the electronics while sitting. It's just not going to be an issue, unless you have something wrong in the wiring. If that's the case, it should be easy to tell with an decent ammeter that'll read in something like the 50mA range.
 

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I used an old analog DC meter, in series between the ground terminal and the battery post. Set to a higher amp scale (0-250mA) for the part where the bike is still doing it's interrogation for the FOB. This lets you see the pulses and make a rough estimate of time and duty cycle. Not accurate, but good enough to get a fair idea on how much it's taking from the battery. (Not much!!)

I then switched to a mA scale digital meter after disconnecting the battery for a short time to stop the FOB interrogation. This is the test in the shop manual (Shop Manual 21-7)

As I noted in prior post, the battery will self discharge way before any significant drain from the electronics while sitting. It's just not going to be an issue, unless you have something wrong in the wiring. If that's the case, it should be easy to tell with an decent ammeter that'll read in something like the 50mA range.

OK, thanks for the further explanation. For some reason, I thought you didn't disconnect the battery cable to measure the current.
 
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