[Crossrodes]

I just posted this question but It's not on the board. So here goes again:

I have install A Traxxion Steel Braided line between the hydraulic pump and the pre-load adjuster (for the rear shock). I have watched Fred's videos on bleeding but I'm not sure it addresses the situation when you install a new hydraulic line.

Does anyone have any info on how to go about this?

 

[WestWing03]

Jump ahead to the disk that has the Traxx install, as I recall. He shows you how to swap the line.

 

[ghump]

I've done it with a new hose. In addition to Fred's method which you already know, I used a syringe with the hose attached to the shock side but not the preload. I fill the hose as much as possible with fluid. Tap or shake to get the bubbles out. Then I attach it to the preload and run the full cycle on the adjuster several times. The adjuster is plugged in but not attached. The preload (an assistant is helpful for this) must be held higher than the shock. After running a few cycles, unbolt the hose from the preload and fill it up again and be sure the reservoir is full also. Re bolt the hose and check that the adjuster starts loading the spring right at #1. I don't know if this is the best way, but it worked for me. The adjuster has been loading and working flawlessly for 2 years.

 

[Crossrodes]

Thanks Gary.

I was actually on my way to the drug store to buy a syringe when you posted. I tried the syringe but it was so slow I gave up on it. Instead I followed your (and Fred's I guess) method of filling and running a few cycles and re-filling. I believe it needs a little more fluid as it changes tone after it gets to number 1 on the display instead of being under load the whole time. I'll refill it tomorrow after it's had a chance for air bubbles to rise and try a few more cycles.

Now I have another problem with the spring. I'll post it in a separate thread.

Westwing thanks for the pointer to the Traxion video but I don't have it. I guess my videos are older than yours.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

Why go to a steel line? What is wrong with the OEM one?

 

[Crossrodes]

Greg there was an article published some time ago by Stu Oatman recommending steed braided lines over the standard ones because the standard ones had too much flex/give. When I took my suspension out the standard lines looked very iffy. It's the same reason people opt for steel braided brake lines.

 

[ghump]

Why go to a steel line? What is wrong with the OEM one?

I think the 2001 thru 2005 experienced many problems with the preload deteriorating. I believe it was primarily hose expansion (just my opinion) I have a friend who bought a 2006 and he has never had a problem. Mine got so bad that it was not loading until 11 on the readout. Honda must have improved that hose, but a braided line should never have that problem.

 

[DDL]

Preload hose expansion....

I think the 2001 thru 2005 experienced many problems with the preload deteriorating. I believe it was primarily hose expansion (just my opinion) I have a friend who bought a 2006 and he has never had a problem. Mine got so bad that it was not loading until 11 on the readout. Honda must have improved that hose, but a braided line should never have that problem.

My 2006 had pro-load hose expansion. When I bought the bike (new), it had full 0-25 adjustment. At 24,000, it lost use of 0-8 and I added oil and put on a Progressive spring. It was perfect again for a few thousand, except it was not finished expanding and I lost 0-3 and then settled. It remained at 3-25 when I sold it at 93,000 miles. My 2010 got a steel braided line. My only problem was failing to fully tighten the banjo bolt at the adjuster and found I had nothing from 0-22 and an ugly oil mess below the adjuster. I refilled it by setting to 0, submerging the bolt and part of the reservoir in oil, loosening the bolt for oil flow, and pulling up the piston with a pair of spring clip spreaders. That was a rather easy fix except for cleaning the crap out of everything going in the oil bath. I only had to loosen the bag and remove the adjuster and separate. It took less than a couple hours. I once again have 0-25 range and no more leaking....

 

[Rocky]

Why go to a steel line? What is wrong with the OEM one?

Greg.It's myth perpetrated by a idiot.(yeah I got a history with oltman too)unfortunately some bought into it.I have never seen a shock hose swell,(And I test them all to see if I could find at least one swell??) when I do any shock replacement or spring swap.

I like SS lines for brakes,But for the shock is totally useless in that no one puts a shock through the hydraulic pressure brakes go through all the time.

You can definitely feel the difference in brakes with SS lines.But we are talking apples n oranges here.

But if it makes you feel better than have at it.:shrug:

BTW:
I have cut open a stock line.It's got a Teflon hose liner in it and can't swell.There just isn't enough pressure from the actuator to the shock pre-loader to cause it to swell.The actuator seal would blow first if that were the case!

 

[ChrisE]

:agree: Thank You

 

[Pigeon Roost]

I like Mr. Oltman. He has been very willing to help me in the past and he is no idiot. But, ya don't have t' be an idiot to be wrong once in a while or to get an odd notion about something or other.

I don't buy into the theory that this certain hydraulic line has significant exapnsion either. Then again, I have not seen any leaking or seepage of fluids to explain why some observers report the lost pre-load range seems to get progressively worse. Any way, I used a bar-b-que syringe to top-up my system and hose when I did the service with the OE hose. I obtained function right of of "0" and that remained constant for about 50,000 miles until Traxxion did the old full monty, including hose and sock. Still functions right off of "0". Did not do any hard to put the braided line on.

prs

 

[Rocky]

I like Mr. Oltman. He has been very willing to help me in the past and he is no idiot. But, ya don't have t' be an idiot to be wrong once in a while or to get an odd notion about something or other.

I don't buy into the theory that this certain hydraulic line has significant exapnsion either. Then again, I have not seen any leaking or seepage of fluids to explain why some observers report the lost pre-load range seems to get progressively worse. Any way, I used a bar-b-que syringe to top-up my system and hose when I did the service with the OE hose. I obtained function right of of "0" and that remained constant for about 50,000 miles until Traxxion did the old full monty, including hose and sock. Still functions right off of "0". Did not do any hard to put the braided line on.

prs

prs.I said he was an idiot from "my" past experiences with him over on the ra board.

He's just wrong about the stock hose in this case, and from the number of hoses I have inspected in the past looking for the smoking gun.
Trust me if I found any defective hoses-I'd let others know to help them before a problem arose.

BTW:
Fred Harmon is the only person who has has a actuator seal leak fluid past it on his 02 that I have ever read about on this forum.
He said after he took his actuator apart/cleaned/refilled it,that it was fine.This was way before a SS line was ever mentioned in the ra rag by "I got no clue stu".

 

[ghump]

As I mentioned, I had significant deterioration in my preload. It was not loading until 11. There have been too many post to even count that have had this problem. I really have no idea what the cause really is, just a guess. But I never saw any sign of leakage. I think it would be very difficult to actually see expansion of the hose. A very small amount of expansion across the whole length of the hose might be unnoticeable. The volume of fluid is very small in the hose so my guess was expansion. With the number of reported problems, what would be another reason?? Please don't call me an idiot, I'm very sensitive!!

 

[ghump]

My 2006 had pro-load hose expansion. When I bought the bike (new), it had full 0-25 adjustment. At 24,000, it lost use of 0-8 and I added oil and put on a Progressive spring. It was perfect again for a few thousand, except it was not finished expanding and I lost 0-3 and then settled. It remained at 3-25 when I sold it at 93,000 miles. My 2010 got a steel braided line. My only problem was failing to fully tighten the banjo bolt at the adjuster and found I had nothing from 0-22 and an ugly oil mess below the adjuster. I refilled it by setting to 0, submerging the bolt and part of the reservoir in oil, loosening the bolt for oil flow, and pulling up the piston with a pair of spring clip spreaders. That was a rather easy fix except for cleaning the crap out of everything going in the oil bath. I only had to loosen the bag and remove the adjuster and separate. It took less than a couple hours. I once again have 0-25 range and no more leaking....

I wish to amend my statement to include the 2006 models!!

 

[sgmdudley]

My 2009 didn't start on pre-load til 6. Only 11,000 miles at the time. Went thru the service procedure and it started at zero. Since I was ordering Traxxion springs, I also ordered the SS hose. I have installed it just for the heck of it. Maybe the original hose would not expand but the new one won't.

 

[ghump]

I wish to amend my statement to include 2009 models. Oh heck, I wish to include any model that has the problem!!

 

[DDL]

expanding OEM line....

....I have never seen a shock hose swell,(And I test them all to see if I could find at least one swell??) when I do any shock replacement or spring swap....

Then you will have to explain two of them that I have had 2002 & 2006 swell up almost like a clown's balloon for making balloon animals.... Both cases were several K before I serviced them. Let me give a little background....

I ride on 25, I ride fast on winding and very bumpy roads. Both bikes at about 20K lost 0-7 for adjustment. I could take the side cover off and watch the hose as I go from 0 to oh, say 14. The line would expand before my eyes for a few numbers once it hit pressure. The line would be very noticeable for growing in length, but it took your fingers to feel it grow in diameter. When the "active" expansion during this activity stops, you are ready to refill with oil and you will be fine for many thousand miles. I did the refill too soon on the 2006, but the 2002 was still perfect 70K after the refill.

Why is this type of line OK for brakes, clutches, and other high pressure jobs? All of those other applications are NOT closed systems like this one is. There is a reservoir to accommodate a new line finding its functional internal volume.

What am I saying about what a tested line will show? If you test a new one, you will not see anything unusual, it has not started yet. If you test a line old enough to have settled in internal volume, you will not see anything unusual, it found its natural final size. This makes it very possible to not see line expansion. Throw in differences in how one rides, where they ride, and what setting they use and it will vary how slow or rapid the OEM line will grow. Mine would grow quickly, thus, my braided line on my 2010.

 

[31261]

Well do as you like, but I have always thought of this situation as simply a non issue. Just like do you put this brand or that brand of oil in the bike, do as you like.

Even if you think the shock does not move or kick in a bit late, it will keep going past 25 the same amount as it lags behind to begin with.

So the numbers do not match, maybe there is a reason for a bit of an air cushion in the shock actuator. Dunno.

Just never worried about it, if I want the rear up to full height, hey just hold the control button down till it stops .

If you want it in the middle, be in tune with the bike and place it accordingly and if that does not feel right, raise it or lower it a bit. Then look at that setting on your bike and hit the remember button.

Always been nothing to worry about for me.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

Greg.It's myth perpetrated by a idiot.(yeah I got a history with oltman too)unfortunately some bought into it.I have never seen a shock hose swell,(And I test them all to see if I could find at least one swell??) when I do any shock replacement or spring swap.

I like SS lines for brakes,But for the shock is totally useless in that no one puts a shock through the hydraulic pressure brakes go through all the time.

You can definitely feel the difference in brakes with SS lines.But we are talking apples n oranges here.

But if it makes you feel better than have at it.:shrug:

BTW:
I have cut open a stock line.It's got a Teflon hose liner in it and can't swell.There just isn't enough pressure from the actuator to the shock pre-loader to cause it to swell.The actuator seal would blow first if that were the case!

Thanks Rocky. I pretty much always stay away from this bandaid stuff. So far the only products I know of that truely make a GL1800 better are tapered sterring head bearings and undercutting the gears for ghost shifters. Everything else is based on personal choice and not need.

I'm editing this to include aftermarket hose clamps for the upper front radiator hoses. I am defeted trying to make the OEM ones work.

 

[Hazle]

Why go to a steel line? What is wrong with the OEM one?

Marketing is a great tool! Most people are easily influenced by Marketing!

Fred for one is a great marketing tool for aftermarket parts suppliers!