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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'll try to make this short.
I had all three brake pads installed and noticed that the rear brake pedal had to pumped twice to get the rear brake hard. Took it back and the guy bleed the hell out of the unit but no luck.

My friend has a car repair shop and we bleed the unit again. Problem still there. It seems that the secondary master cylinder has upward movement with no brake applied. So I was told it was the problem by the guy that installed the brake pads. So I ordered one and installed it. After installing the rear master cylinder bleed the unit again. Problem still there.

My friend says that he thinks it the left front caliper because you hear fuild rushing thru the caliper and it has some left to right movement. He thinks the pistons in the caliper are moving to far back into the caliper. Thus you having to push the foot pedal twice.
is problem
Any one else had this problem.



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Are you bleeding the system per the specific steps in the service manual? You can't just bleed the rear brake caliper due to the linked brakes.
 

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The bleed sequence does not matter. It is just quicker and can use less fluid if air has entered.

What year bike and milage? Some older GL1800s had a brake recall. You can see recalls at JustWings.com > printed material > recalls.

Did you have this problem prior to replacing the pads? Why were the pads replaced? Did you replace with OEM pads?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The bike is an 02 with 35K miles and the pads are OEM. We bleed the brakes by the book and not by the book. There is no air left. Went thru a 6oz bottle of dot 4.

I've had the bike for 2 years and to tell the truth I can't remember if the problem was there before the brake change since most of the time I use the front.

When I bought the bike the local dealer said all the recalls had been done.
 

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Check to make sure ALL the pads are seated in the proper grooves in EACH caliper.If they aren't the rear pedal can act this way.

To avoid future issues,Change out one set of pads at a time and pump up the brake pedal/lever after changing each set of pads.
This way you'll isolate what caliper is giving you issues IF one does pops up.(I doubt it will if done this way).
Been doing it this way for years and never had any issue yet.
 

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The noise your mechanic friend hears, sort of raspy scritch like a hen turkey, is typical of even well bled systems and I think is related to the delay valve. I suggest you DO follow the designated sequence for the rear master associated cylinder bleeders. That you take your time and pump the peddle slowly until it is rock solid and hold, barely crack the bleeder until the peddle drops, close the bleeded and then VERY SLOWLY return the peddle to open. Repaeat several times until your are sure there are no bubbles in your bleed tubing and that bleed tubing should be coursing upward for several inches at least before it turns down to the collection bottle. Forget vacuum tools at this point, use the Honda specified final bleed technique.

prs
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
when the pads where changed the system was not open. Expect the bottles for over flow. So I can't see how air got in. I might believe the seating and will check that tonight.

I noticed this moring that the bango bolts on the fron left caliper has wrench marks on it. Like the wrong side used. Why was that fron caliper removed?
 

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If the banjo bolt has marks on it - That caliper has probably been removed at some time for some reason(can't imagine why:?:). I would make sure it is tightened properly and is not a source of air entering the system!
If you have not used a mighty-vac, I would try that and use the sequence shown in the service manual.
 

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when the pads where changed the system was not open. Expect the bottles for over flow. So I can't see how air got in. I might believe the seating and will check that tonight.

I noticed this moring that the bango bolts on the fron left caliper has wrench marks on it. Like the wrong side used. Why was that fron caliper removed?
I would be suspicious of the entire system and bleed it as if it were opened up and or otherwise contaminated. In fact, if that fluid is more than 2 years old, I would replace all of it with new fresh fluid...I might do just that anyway as it would remove a possible uknown.
 

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Of course the dealer said all the recalls where done. Did you read the recall? It may apply to you. Also, the recall may be newer then when you bought your bike.

6oz does not sound like enough to truely know there is absolutly no air in the system. If I had that problem, I would at least be using a bottle or 2 since it does sound like a possible air problem. Also, you should be bleeding the intire rear peddle braking system.

You can look through the wheel on the left side to verify the inner pad is installed correctly. You may need to spin a spoke out of the way to see.
 

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The bike is an 02 with 35K miles and the pads are OEM. We bleed the brakes by the book and not by the book. There is no air left. Went thru a 6oz bottle of dot 4.

I've had the bike for 2 years and to tell the truth I can't remember if the problem was there before the brake change since most of the time I use the front.

When I bought the bike the local dealer said all the recalls had been done.
If all the pads are seated properly, it sure sounds to me like you have air in the system. I don't know what "by the book and not by the book" means, but before you spend a lot more time and money, take a deep breath, take your time and bleed the brakes by the book. And don't ever go to that original mechanic again!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well it couldn't be that either the front brake pads not being seated proplery because then the hand brake would do the same thing. Since there shared by both systems.

I still believe that one of the pistons are retracking to far thus extra pedal pump. That being the problem then it could be any one of the 3. More likley the left front with the wrench marks on the banjo bolts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
As the pads wear the piston doesn't retrack all the way back right.




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Well it couldn't be that either the front brake pads not being seated proplery because then the hand brake would do the same thing. Since there shared by both systems.
First one must understand how the 1800 system works.






I still believe that one of the pistons are retracking to far thus extra pedal pump. That being the problem then it could be any one of the 3. More likley the left front with the wrench marks on the banjo bolts.
Caliper pistons don't retact.they relax their grip/pressure after a lever or pedal is released.(I think that's what you meant anyways)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I've seen the diagram and thats why I said if the front brake pads weren't seated right then I would have problems with the hand front brake.

I will check the rear brake pads for seating properly and bleed one more time. After that Honda service center.


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I never had a problem with the wing, but I did with one of my cars. I thought I got all the old fluid out, but still had that spongy feeling. You can usually tell with fresh fluid that the old brake fluid is much darker than the new. To be positive I bought some VW fluid, which is blue. It is a DOT 4 and an excellent fluid with high boiling point. The blue fluid let me know for certain when I got the old fluid out. Short version...it worked. Because of the proportional valve & delay valve, a lot of fluid needs to come out. Every other fluid change I go to the VW fluid & I also use speed bleeders. They allow me to bleed the brakes where I can view the reservoir to be sure I don't let it get too low. Just some suggestions from my own experience. I hope yopu get it solved and then go for a nice ride!!!

http://www.blauparts.com/vw/vw_fluid/vw_brake_fluid.shtml#bluevwbrakefluid
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
After talking to a few more people. They said if the alinement pints are off making one of the piston travel further that will happen. Well it seems that the front left caliper move a little and the other 2 don't.
 

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After talking to a few more people. They said if the alinement pints are off making one of the piston travel further that will happen. Well it seems that the front left caliper move a little and the other 2 don't.
The left front caliper is designed to move upward, that's one of the ways the ADV is activated.
 
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