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Discussion Starter #1
I see several of you are trying this tire now, so here is a review of the tire at my current 8000 mile mark. (8000 miles was the end of life for my Kuhmo and my best ever mileage BTW)
When I picked this tire out most of the deciding factor was the Low Rolling Resistance feature. To achieve this and increase gas mileage they changed the way a car tire is designed. A normal radial car tire has a stiff tread area and soft sidewalls, so everyone over inflates them to make the sidewall stiff and the tread rounder. Now you have a tire without much give at all, kind of like a runflat ride. Now when you turn the tire has no give and the tire rides up on edge lifting the center of the tread off of the ground. A Low Rolling Resistance tire has a softer more flexible tread area and stiffer sidewalls to make up for it. This moves the center of gravity inwards on the tire which may help a tiny bit but the real cool part is the tread flex. Look at the flex at rest on the side stand, (all photos at 33 psi, my normal pressure)
WP_000081.jpg WP_000089.jpg Click on the photos to make them bigger.
In a turn at speed the sidewall on the outside of the turn extends as far as it can and then it starts to lift the tread like a normal car tire, at the same time the sidewall on the inner side of the turn compresses and gets a slight bulge in it. This allows the tread to flex and follow the sidewall, this in effect makes the inner side of the tire shorter and lets the center of the tread stay on the ground in a turn. When the center of your tire lifts off of the road it is raising the back of the bike up at the same time so you get more ground clearance, but it makes the bike want to stand back up too. At the pressure I am using it never stands back up on its own. It seems more flickable too because the tire is not lifting the bike on turns. (A MC tire has a shorter diameter in a turn also because it is round) See the inside bulge on the side stand and lack of outside edge bulge, it flexes more on the road than it does sitting still in the photo.
WP_000085.jpg WP_000086.jpg
This tire looks like it will out last my front tire, and that has never happened before either.
WP_000080.jpg
It has a little wiggle or flex to it at times at this pressure but it is always gone in an instant for me and it is very stable at high speeds. I don't even notice the very occasional wiggle anymore and it doesn't bother me at all anymore either. It also has a very soft ride at this pressure but the tire runs very cool even at high speeds and lots of turns. it also barely notices uneven pavement because the tread can flex over the high spot. The bike seems to ride more balanced with the front pressure at 33 psi also and both tires are wearing good.
I don't ride 2 up very often but I up the pressure to 35 psi when I do. In my opinion and based on my even tread wear if you over inflate this tire to make the side walls harder you are taking away the best features of the tire and it will wear out in the middle of the tread. There is almost no wear at the edges of the tire either except on the right side when I spun the tire in a peg draging nearly wide open throttle right hand turn onto the freeway. Even with the rear tire broken loose and spinning the back of the bike didn't kick out or want to change direction at all, only my tach and the flat spot on the tire gave it away. I was not even sure it was spinning until I looked at the tire at home. In all I am very happy with this tire, and amazed at the tread life so far.

Just remember that this tire is built differently than what we are used to and be prepared to experiment a little more to find the pressure sweet spot for you and don't be afraid to go down to 32 psi in your testing, not quite enough air for me but if you are lighter than me or ride different who knows.

Our tire distributor at work have told us that in the next few years all tires will be switching to the Low Rolling Resistance design. That is what the new car manufactures are demanding because of the gas mileage savings, and they buy more tires than anyone else does.
 

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jwolffie, thanks for the great write-up & pics. Although I haven't had a chance to introduce the tire to the twisties in earnest yet, your descriptions are inline with what I am feeling through the seat of my pants. So far I have tried 34 psi and 36 psi with almost all of that being slab @ 34.

I am a little concerned over losing any ground clearance in the turns because that is already an issue.

Maybe more thoughts tomorrow. If I can get the big girl back on the road.
 

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I second that, a very good write up. That was one thing l left out on my first review. The lower rolling resistance. I noticed it as soon as I was backing my bike in the driveway. It is smooth concrete and I was very use to the amount of foot power it took to push it in reverse. I can imagine that I should see an appreciatable difference at the pump.
 

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Nice review.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I second that, a very good write up. That was one thing l left out on my first review. The lower rolling resistance. I noticed it as soon as I was backing my bike in the driveway. It is smooth concrete and I was very use to the amount of foot power it took to push it in reverse. I can imagine that I should see an appreciatable difference at the pump.
Mine worked out to about 10-15 more miles per tank of gas with the way I drive, I did leave out that nice bonus.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
jwolffie, thanks for the great write-up & pics. Although I haven't had a chance to introduce the tire to the twisties in earnest yet, your descriptions are inline with what I am feeling through the seat of my pants. So far I have tried 34 psi and 36 psi with almost all of that being slab @ 34.

I am a little concerned over losing any ground clearance in the turns because that is already an issue.

Maybe more thoughts tomorrow. If I can get the big girl back on the road.
A higher capacity rear spring and/or shock maybe? That lifted up the rear of mine to match the Race Tech springs and kit in the front. My bike sits an inch higher front and rear than stock and does not rub on the speed bumps anymore.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
jwolffie, do you know if the EP100 is going to be around for awhile (vs. discontinued)?
The EP 100 is a 1st generation LRR tire. There is already a 2nd generation EP 300 that is also a LRR tire that is for sale already but I wanted to try the first generation technology first.
 

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Hey Wolffie, could you post a picture of it at zero psi?
 

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Nice, thoughtful write up. I will be watching for further reviews, may not
need another this season, but I would like a tire that handles the
uneven slow speed roads better than my current Pirelli.
There are a lot of rutted roads around Mich. didn't notice
much of a problem in NC, but here they use 30,000 lb asphalt,
and let 70,000 lb trucks run on them. 4" tire ruts are common....
dangerous when full of water, and they grab the Pirelli and pull
quite a bit...I have been surprised quite a few times.

I'll be considering the Bridgestone Ecopia EP100, until the next
need arises. Is the tire quiet?...I very much dislike tire whine. I
just put a Stone on the front...and it's makin' noise after about
5-600 miles....32lbs...one up.

I'm committed to CT's either way. The added gas mileage would
be a plus, but not the largest concern for me. I love the security
of a runflat, but I think the stiffer sidewalls are what's causing
the pull I'm getting. Otherwise I'm very happy with the Pirelli.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hey Wolffie, could you post a picture of it at zero psi?
Just imagine the tire flat and the rim near the ground, just like a MC tire. I have a TPMS because I don't like surprises. In 30 years of daily driving every flat I had was flat when I went to get on the bike, not on the road, and even that was only a couple of times. I have a plug kit too so I will take my chances with flats, I had a runflat and I didn't like it so I didn't get another one and tried something else. I am very happy now.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Nice, thoughtful write up. I will be watching for further reviews, may not
need another this season, but I would like a tire that handles the
uneven slow speed roads better than my current Pirelli.
There are a lot of rutted roads around Mich. didn't notice
much of a problem in NC, but here they use 30,000 lb asphalt,
and let 70,000 lb trucks run on them. 4" tire ruts are common....
dangerous when full of water, and they grab the Pirelli and pull
quite a bit...I have been surprised quite a few times.

I'll be considering the Bridgestone Ecopia EP100, until the next
need arises. Is the tire quiet?...I very much dislike tire whine. I
just put a Stone on the front...and it's makin' noise after about
5-600 miles....32lbs...one up.

I'm committed to CT's either way. The added gas mileage would
be a plus, but not the largest concern for me. I love the security
of a runflat, but I think the stiffer sidewalls are what's causing
the pull I'm getting. Otherwise I'm very happy with the Pirelli.
Yes it is a very quiet tire, but it grabs the rain groves on the freeway a little when it is new, but that goes away with time. The only cupping on the tire is from where I spun it on the freeway ramp and feathered it a little but it is quiet still.
 

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I'm keeping this in mind..sounds like what I will be looking for.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I second that, a very good write up. That was one thing l left out on my first review. The lower rolling resistance. I noticed it as soon as I was backing my bike in the driveway. It is smooth concrete and I was very use to the amount of foot power it took to push it in reverse. I can imagine that I should see an appreciatable difference at the pump.
Here is a real world review with the tires used on a car instead of a bike: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=121
Here are the tests in graphs: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=121
The EP 100 scored well:
Tire Line Test MPG* Gallons/[email protected] 15,000 Miles % vs.Baseline

Michelin Energy Saver A/S 53.8 278.8 +4.74%
Bridgestone Ecopia EP100 53.5 280.4 +4.12%
Yokohama dB Super E-Spec 52.8 284.0 +2.81%
Goodyear Assurance Fuel Max 51.6 290.7 +0.37%
Goodyear Integrity 51.4 291.8 ---
Michelin HydroEdge with Green X 51.1 293.5 -0.59%
Goodyear Assurance ComforTred 50.0 300.0 -2.64%

It scored well in traction too.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Here is a photo of the lack of edge wear: WP_000084.jpg
With the tread flexing like it does at lower pressures this tire does not climb up on the edge like other tires.
 

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Hey Jon,you still working at this place?



The Pirelli has the same bulge.So I guess a Run flat can flex too huh.




Here is a side profile of the Pirelli RF.32 psi




Here is a Pirelli with O air.As you can see,It's rim doesn't touch the ground?..Hmmm



Lets see that tire with the valve core out.:thumbup:

Now Jon.We both know where you live,And we both know that you have no choice but to ride the busiest traffic corridor on 67 & 8 west in the mornings to get to el cajon blvd,and then the same bumper to bumper traffic with great neck speeds of single digits again on the way home.
So where is it that you ride high speeds again.

Wait a dam minute.you live 12 miles from work.(lakeside to 70th st & el cajon blvd san diego ca) http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Lakes...code_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CDwQ8gEwAA

High speeds--ROTFLMAO.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Hey Jon,you still working at this place?



The Pirelli has the same bulge.So I guess a Run flat can flex too huh.




Here is a side profile of the Pirelli RF.32 psi




Here is a Pirelli with O air.As you can see,It's rim doesn't touch the ground?..Hmmm



Lets see that tire with the valve core out.:thumbup:

Now Jon.We both know where you live,And we both know that you have no choice but to ride the busiest traffic corridor on 67 & 8 west in the mornings to get to el cajon blvd,and then the same bumper to bumper traffic with great neck speeds of single digits again on the way home.
So where is it that you ride high speeds again.

Wait a dam minute.you live 12 miles from work.(lakeside to 70th st & el cajon blvd san diego ca) http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Lakes...code_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CDwQ8gEwAA

High speeds--ROTFLMAO.
That is the nice part of my commute, I start late and I leave work late so there is not too much traffic. I know where most of the cops hide and my detector points out quite a few of them too. If you go that fast most people move over because they think a white bike is a cop anyway. The end part of 67 is straight and often empty which is nice too. My average commute is 12 minutes and it isn't all freeway. If I drove slower maybe I could get more than 150 miles on a tank of gas too, but what fun is that?

I am the first to admit you can not ride on my tire with no air in it, no way, no how, but I can plug or patch my tire and be on my way. If I can't patch it then it is new tire time. If I pick up something on the road most of the time the object plugs the hole and you just have a slow leak anyway. If something goes in and out the air only leaks out as fast as the hole is big anyway. That is what a TPMS is for anyway. I have some very good metal stems with inside grommets so that shouldn't be a problem either. If it is something really big and goes flat really fast then I am no worse off than I was with the stock MC tire.
The runflat tire is just to heavy and ill handling for my use. If you ride on your runflat with no air in it then according to the tire manufactures you need to replace the tire, not repair it. Mine can be patched. I know some people like a run flat tire and those people that like one should run one, It just isn't the tire for me. We all know some people almost never check there air pressure and you can ride a run flat dangerously low on air and not see a difference in the tire visually too.
 

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That is the nice part of my commute, I start late
and I leave work late so there is not too much traffic. I know where most of the cops hide and my detector points out quite a few of them too. If you go that fast most people move over because they think a white bike is a cop anyway. The end part of 67 is straight and often empty which is nice too. My average commute is 12 minutes and it isn't all freeway. If I drove slower maybe I could get more than 150 miles on a tank of gas too, but what fun is that?

I am the first to admit you can not ride on my tire with no air in it, no way, no how, but I can plug or patch my tire and be on my way. If I can't patch it then it is new tire time. If I pick up something on the road most of the time the object plugs the hole and you just have a slow leak anyway. If something goes in and out the air only leaks out as fast as the hole is big anyway. That is what a TPMS is for anyway. I have some very good metal stems with inside grommets so that shouldn't be a problem either. If it is something really big and goes flat really fast then I am no worse off than I was with the stock MC tire.
The runflat tire is just to heavy and ill handling for my use.
You saw first hand how heavy & ill handling it was on my bike huh? lol.
We can both agree that is just BS talking.In theory yes a Rf does have a few extra pounds,but in reality it doesn't make a difference when all you can see are tail lights (when the guy your trying to keep up with has to slow down to see if your still there?).Then you realize them few pounds aren't a handi cap to the bike or rider at all.lol

If you ride on your runflat with no air in it then according to the tire manufactures you need to replace the tire, not repair it.
Jon.I think you are basing this thought on the literature when reading about runflats?.
Keep in mind RF's were designed for much heavier vehicles than a wing.(Cages) that will put stress on theses tires because the owners are not cognizant of what a low tire feels like.This is why the government mandated these tires have a TPMS.
Some people are oblivious to the fact they have a flat and continue to ride on it until it self destructs.

I highly doubt anyone would argue that riding a RF tire for hundreds of miles with no air should continue to be used if plugged.
The difference between a RF and a NRF is that we all know that a NRF will TELL you in short order you have a loss of Psi vs a RF will need the experience of a trained arse or a TPMS to warn you of a loss of PSI,and to inspect/repair said tire to continue on down the road.

Yes I have ridden my RF with no valve core in it.So I'd know what my tire feels like with low PSI-
But come on you know better than to say "You have to throw away a RF if it gets a flat".That isn't true and we both know it.It too can be plugged/patched and continue on down the road.



Mine can be patched. I know some people like a run flat tire and those people that like one should run one, It just isn't the tire for me. We all know some people almost never check there air pressure and you can ride a run flat dangerously low on air and not see a difference in the tire visually too.
Naturally you'll know PDQ when a non RF will have a flat due to it's sidewall construction more so than a RF.But RF's are no different in being able to be patched.
It boils down to "Do I need a TPMS because I can't trust my seat of the pants feel as I get older".No one wants to experience a flat no matter what is under them.
So a TPMS should be considered as an aid or warning device if you think it will help save not only you the rider/passenger,but the tire as well!

But as is described here in this thread,and as I and many others have said through the years. "NO Tire is Created Equal".That has always been true in MT's as well.

I look at tires like this:
"Choose your tires as if your Life depends on it-Because it does"
 

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Discussion Starter #19


You saw first hand how heavy & ill handling it was on my bike huh? lol.
We can both agree that is just BS talking.In theory yes a Rf does have a few extra pounds,but in reality it doesn't make a difference when all you can see are tail lights (when the guy your trying to keep up with has to slow down to see if your still there?).Then you realize them few pounds aren't a handi cap to the bike or rider at all.lol

I just didn't like the shake that the extra weight from the runflat has in a hard turn with bumps, It is just a personal preference, it just feels better to me.

Jon.I think you are basing this thought on the literature when reading about runflats?.
Keep in mind RF's were designed for much heavier vehicles than a wing.(Cages) that will put stress on theses tires because the owners are not cognizant of what a low tire feels like.This is why the government mandated these tires have a TPMS.
Some people are oblivious to the fact they have a flat and continue to ride on it until it self destructs.

Lets see, A mini-cooper weighs 2568 lbs, divided by 4 tires = 642 lbs per tire.
A 1000 pound Goldwing (and some people load them above that) with 2 tires = 500 pounds per tire so we are pretty close in weight. if you have only 10-15 lbs in a runflat and don't check your pressure you can and will drive on a way under-inflated tire and may not notice. A under-inflated tire builds heat and heat destroys tires from the inside out.

I highly doubt anyone would argue that riding a RF tire for hundreds of miles with no air should continue to be used if plugged.
The difference between a RF and a NRF is that we all know that a NRF will TELL you in short order you have a loss of Psi vs a RF will need the experience of a trained arse or a TPMS to warn you of a loss of PSI,and to inspect/repair said tire to continue on down the road.

Yes I have ridden my RF with no valve core in it.So I'd know what my tire feels like with low PSI-
But come on you know better than to say "You have to throw away a RF if it gets a flat".That isn't true and we both know it.It too can be plugged/patched and continue on down the road.


Is it possible to repair a Run-Flat tire that has been punctured?
It depends on how far and at what speed the car was driven after the puncture was sustained. Repair is possible only if deemed so by the tire sales store.
Preconditions include a puncture of less than 6mm for both side-reinforced type and support-ring type Run-Flat tires, plus minimal damage to the support ring in case of the latter.
However, it is strongly recommended that the tire is replaced as its durability will have been weakened after being repaired. Source: http://www.bridgestone.com/sc/runflat-system/qa/




Naturally you'll know PDQ when a non RF will have a flat due to it's sidewall construction more so than a RF.But RF's are no different in being able to be patched.
It boils down to "Do I need a TPMS because I can't trust my seat of the pants feel as I get older".No one wants to experience a flat no matter what is under them.
So a TPMS should be considered as an aid or warning device if you think it will help save not only you the rider/passenger,but the tire as well!


Actually TPMS is REQUIRED on cars with run flat tires, not RECCOMENDED.
Can Run-Flat tires and systems be equipped on any car?
Technically, it is possible to equip Run-Flat tires on any type of car. However, we recommend using them on cars specifically designed for Run-Flats, or at least, cars designed with that option in mind, as it is necessary to fit the tire pressure monitoring system. Source:
http://www.bridgestone.com/sc/runflat-system/qa/


But as is described here in this thread,and as I and many others have said through the years. "NO Tire is Created Equal".That has always been true in MT's as well.

I look at tires like this:
"Choose your tires as if your Life depends on it-Because it does"
I do, I want a tire that works like I want it to, not just a tire that everyone else likes. If you like a run flat, then great, run a run flat. It just isn't the tire for me.
 

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I just didn't like the shake that the extra weight from the runflat has in a hard turn with bumps, It is just a personal preference, it just feels better to me.


Jon. your tire weighs 19 pounds and a Pirelli RF weighs 20 pounds.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...R6EUFORI&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

What did that RF you tried weigh?



I do, I want a tire that works like I want it to, not just a tire that everyone else likes. If you like a run flat, then great, run a run flat. It just isn't the tire for me.
Why does it bother you what anyone else uses?.I only posted my pictures to show everyone what a Pirelli RF looks like on a side stand.

I never tried to tell you or anyone else what tire to use.

I have said that a RF is the safest tire currently made.If you like a different tire then go for it.That's what's great about tires.there are tons of tires to try.:thumbup:
 
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