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Discussion Starter #21
SO: I did a factory reset on both headsets, reloaded latest (last week's) firmware. Paired BT to bike successfully and bike audio comes to headset properly. Paired my unit with iPhone to adjust settings. When I turn them on, I get the DMC intercom connected message but the DMC intercom will now not activate at all. Checked all cable connections etc. Also, the "Hey Cardo" feature does not work. I'm about ready to throw in the towel, send the units back (Amazon return window), and get another set.
 

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I'm about ready to throw in the towel, send the units back (Amazon return window), and get another set.
Have you called Cardo's customer service or watched any of the Youtube vids?
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Have you called Cardo's customer service or watched any of the Youtube vids?
I've watched numerous Cardo related youTubes. Good info but no solutions for my particular situation. Emailed Cardo customer service but got no answer. I've followed most of the suggestions offered on this forum. Bombed on all of them so far.
Got a little time tomorrow to fool with it & will see if I have any more success.
 

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SO: I did a factory reset on both headsets, reloaded latest (last week's) firmware. Paired BT to bike successfully and bike audio comes to headset properly. Paired my unit with iPhone to adjust settings. When I turn them on, I get the DMC intercom connected message but the DMC intercom will now not activate at all. Checked all cable connections etc. Also, the "Hey Cardo" feature does not work. I'm about ready to throw in the towel, send the units back (Amazon return window), and get another set.
It's not the cardos. It's Hondas sorry BT version 2.1+EDR. You can not use Hondas junk system and the cardos or any sena at full potential with the Wing. You are locked into a certain mode of operation. If you deviate from Honda/Harmon Kardon's mode of operation and protocol, failure is your friend Sir. You have to use cardos very good app to get all your settings right and setup independent of Hondas junk system. Set yours up with your phone and hers with her phone. Then unpair the phones from the cardos. I know it's dumb as can be. Then make sure yours and the wifes cardos are paired on the standard bluetooth. Then pair your cardo to Wing as #1 and hers as #2. Then you can pair the phone to the bike, but if you want to use carplay or the pending android auto you have to turn your cell phone pairing with the bike off. It really is utterly stupid how Honda/HK screwed this up with BT 2.1+EDR from 2008. The 2.1 was the very first version of BT to have hub function. And it's a dumb hub. It has no ability to prioritise channels, nodes or data transfer. The +EDR is a very cheap and dirty way to basically side stream data because 2.1 alone did not have the needed bandwidth to keep the connects/nodes/pairing and through put the data needed in one package. BT version 3.0 was the first smart hub that ran like a little network and priorities became a thing of the past from setup to use and user interface. So with that little bit of knowledge understood and set aside let's look at the Honda system. We have a navi that is a slightly changed honda car navi from 2006. Our units have real memory for storage and are not dvd driven, but we lost the touch screen. So we can only operate them through buttons in a very archaic manor. And if setup correctly we get audio from navi, whoopi. FM reception is bad at best. Both my sena 10s and cardos have better built in FM reception. We have the ability to use the main usb cable for carplay or up coming aa or we can use it as a data port to listen to music. Or add another usb cable for data only. So I really don't gain much by using Hondas truly out of date system. And the cardos are impressive used as stand alone. Pair them up with each other. Wife can have her phone paired, I have mine paired, we both have our cardo app, she can listen to her music. I listen to mine or we can share music or phone calls, txt msg. They will do more than either one of us will ever use and sound pretty good to boot. My old iphone 8 has 256 gig of storage. Just with the 30+ gig of music I have on it now I could listen to music for better than 3 months and never hear the same tune twice if I wanted. I can use phone navi and be just fine. And still use hondas way sub par navi if I needed to because of lost or low cell signal. And if I have to have carplay I can buy it and put it on my phone. Honda put more into the marketing of there infotainment system than they did in tech. Every bit of it is old and outdated tech. On one hand it kind of pissed me of,,,, it did piss me off. But on the other I have a really great cardo duo system that is really good. I still have hondas junk if I need it with a outdated navi, fm from the stone age and a audio system that sounds like a boom box from the dollar tree. It's a win for me...
 

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pair your phone to cardo for the phone app.(to make adjustments). but then turn off the pairing connection between phone to headset when connecting to the bike via the cable. bluetooth on the iphone should be turned off when youre connected to the bike. otherwise the multiple BT connections wont play well together
 

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I would tend to agree with blast. While I have minimal experience with the GW bluetooth, my BMW bluetooth sucks. Can't pair the wife's helmet (not a BMW unit), the XM sound quality sucked so bad I let the subscription lapse and the bluetooth cuts out depending on where my head is in relation to the antenna. Same thing with my HD....I refuse to buy their headset module to make my headset work.....even though my wife works for HD and I get a nice discount. A $25K bike should come with a bluetooth that works properly and is not proprietary to the brand.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
It's not the cardos. It's Hondas sorry BT version 2.1+EDR. You can not use Hondas junk system and the cardos or any sena at full potential with the Wing. You are locked into a certain mode of operation. If you deviate from Honda/Harmon Kardon's mode of operation and protocol, failure is your friend Sir. You have to use cardos very good app to get all your settings right and setup independent of Hondas junk system. Set yours up with your phone and hers with her phone. Then unpair the phones from the cardos. I know it's dumb as can be. Then make sure yours and the wifes cardos are paired on the standard bluetooth. Then pair your cardo to Wing as #1 and hers as #2. Then you can pair the phone to the bike, but if you want to use carplay or the pending android auto you have to turn your cell phone pairing with the bike off. It really is utterly stupid how Honda/HK screwed this up with BT 2.1+EDR from 2008. The 2.1 was the very first version of BT to have hub function. And it's a dumb hub. It has no ability to prioritise channels, nodes or data transfer. The +EDR is a very cheap and dirty way to basically side stream data because 2.1 alone did not have the needed bandwidth to keep the connects/nodes/pairing and through put the data needed in one package. BT version 3.0 was the first smart hub that ran like a little network and priorities became a thing of the past from setup to use and user interface. So with that little bit of knowledge understood and set aside let's look at the Honda system. We have a navi that is a slightly changed honda car navi from 2006. Our units have real memory for storage and are not dvd driven, but we lost the touch screen. So we can only operate them through buttons in a very archaic manor. And if setup correctly we get audio from navi, whoopi. FM reception is bad at best. Both my sena 10s and cardos have better built in FM reception. We have the ability to use the main usb cable for carplay or up coming aa or we can use it as a data port to listen to music. Or add another usb cable for data only. So I really don't gain much by using Hondas truly out of date system. And the cardos are impressive used as stand alone. Pair them up with each other. Wife can have her phone paired, I have mine paired, we both have our cardo app, she can listen to her music. I listen to mine or we can share music or phone calls, txt msg. They will do more than either one of us will ever use and sound pretty good to boot. My old iphone 8 has 256 gig of storage. Just with the 30+ gig of music I have on it now I could listen to music for better than 3 months and never hear the same tune twice if I wanted. I can use phone navi and be just fine. And still use hondas way sub par navi if I needed to because of lost or low cell signal. And if I have to have carplay I can buy it and put it on my phone. Honda put more into the marketing of there infotainment system than they did in tech. Every bit of it is old and outdated tech. On one hand it kind of pissed me of,,,, it did piss me off. But on the other I have a really great cardo duo system that is really good. I still have hondas junk if I need it with a outdated navi, fm from the stone age and a audio system that sounds like a boom box from the dollar tree. It's a win for me...
Thanks Blast, Drgsin & b206 driver. You've given me lots to do. May be late today before I can begin this journey you'v outlined.
I appreciate your help.
Greg
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Thanks Blast, Drgsin & b206 driver. You've given me lots to do. May be late today before I can begin this journey you'v outlined.
I appreciate your help.
Greg
Blast, Drgsin, b206 driver & others:
Any suggestions on which areas of the phone app settings I need to change & what those settings should be set to?
 

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I would tend to agree with blast. While I have minimal experience with the GW bluetooth, my BMW bluetooth sucks. Can't pair the wife's helmet (not a BMW unit), the XM sound quality sucked so bad I let the subscription lapse and the bluetooth cuts out depending on where my head is in relation to the antenna. Same thing with my HD....I refuse to buy their headset module to make my headset work.....even though my wife works for HD and I get a nice discount. A $25K bike should come with a bluetooth that works properly and is not proprietary to the brand.
There isn't a universal protocol with these Sena and Cardo Wireless Headsets, which is the main problem with linking all this Infotainment system stuff. Plus, the Manufacturers don't know how the Motorcycle Infotainment Systems work, and what riders are doing, or I should say..TRYING to do with them. The Sena units and the Cardo units work fine if you want to talk to a few other riders in a group, and you all have the same brand units. The problem comes when you want to do anything else that's coupled to the Infotainment systems. That's where the Senas and Cardos don't have a clue.


I know of two guys that have stablished a communications channel with both Sena and Cardo and are working with those companies to incorporate what the RIDER using a Motorcycle with a built-in Infotainment System wants the Headsets to do. One benefit the Hinda Goldwing offers is that you have the unit that connects the headset to the Infotainment system already built-in to the Motorcycle. Harley makes you buy a WHIM, a Wireless Headset Interface Module, that connects your headset to the Infotainment System, as you know.

And if you are a really greedy person that wants STEREO sound too, you have to buy a Harley branded SENA headset. They regular Sena won't give you stereo. LOL!
 

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After reading this thread, I'm grateful my Cardo duo works well in DMC and the BT works with my bike. I get calls (rarely), my Android phone plays music thru the bike and I get the bike's GPS instructions. This is one more reason I stayed with the old Cardo firmware...if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think there have been 2 firmware upgrades since I bought my Duo.

IDK if the new firmware version is part of the conflict with your bike's connections or not. My stuff is working fine and I'm leaving it alone.
 

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If there is a shortcoming with the Cardo units, it's that they are TOO capable. They can be setup in SO many different ways, depending on the equipment that you are pairing with, what you want to do with them, etc, that it can quickly become overwhelming. I've had my Packtalk Bold units for about a year now and I've had them setup in so many different ways during that time. However, one thing seems pretty clear to me. If the "Hey Cardo" isn't working, then there is a problem with your units. Perhaps the microphone isn't plugged in all the way, or you are using the boom mic and speaking into the wrong side (the boom Cardo mics are directional - not omni).

Beyond that, I have always found the easiest way to get the Cardo's working successfully is to pair ONLY the minimal amount of things necessary to do what you want to do. My son and I always FIRST pair our headsets to our respective phones so that we can use the Cardo Connect app to control all of the capabilities on the units (pairing other things, setting up your FM channels, controlling the mixer volumes, sound mixing, JBL mode, etc.). Without the Cardo Connect functionality, you are missing out on too much. From that point, you can choose either Bluetooth Intercom if you plan on adding other non DMC headsets later, or DMC if you only plan on having your two headsets intercom paired.

At this point, because I listen to Spotify and FM music only, I don't even have my headset paired to the bike at all, although this will certainly change next month once Android Auto is released. But if you DO want to pair the bike to the headsets, you can certainly add them as a second "phone" pairing on the Packtalks.

Please do not let the frustration of a complex piece of equipment deter you from taking advantage of everything that it has to offer. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. But it DOES offer more than any other headset on the market. It just takes some patience, time and help in getting setup the perfect way for YOU. Do reach out to Cardo for help. I'm a pretty learned tech guy, and I still needed to get them to clarify a few things to get my setup working optimally.
 

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For your volume problem, make sure the volume on your iPhone is turned all the way up. Low volume on your iPhone will lower the volume to the bike and you will have to turn it way up to hear it.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
If there is a shortcoming with the Cardo units, it's that they are TOO capable. They can be setup in SO many different ways, depending on the equipment that you are pairing with, what you want to do with them, etc, that it can quickly become overwhelming. I've had my Packtalk Bold units for about a year now and I've had them setup in so many different ways during that time. However, one thing seems pretty clear to me. If the "Hey Cardo" isn't working, then there is a problem with your units. Perhaps the microphone isn't plugged in all the way, or you are using the boom mic and speaking into the wrong side (the boom Cardo mics are directional - not omni).

Beyond that, I have always found the easiest way to get the Cardo's working successfully is to pair ONLY the minimal amount of things necessary to do what you want to do. My son and I always FIRST pair our headsets to our respective phones so that we can use the Cardo Connect app to control all of the capabilities on the units (pairing other things, setting up your FM channels, controlling the mixer volumes, sound mixing, JBL mode, etc.). Without the Cardo Connect functionality, you are missing out on too much. From that point, you can choose either Bluetooth Intercom if you plan on adding other non DMC headsets later, or DMC if you only plan on having your two headsets intercom paired.

At this point, because I listen to Spotify and FM music only, I don't even have my headset paired to the bike at all, although this will certainly change next month once Android Auto is released. But if you DO want to pair the bike to the headsets, you can certainly add them as a second "phone" pairing on the Packtalks.

Please do not let the frustration of a complex piece of equipment deter you from taking advantage of everything that it has to offer. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. But it DOES offer more than any other headset on the market. It just takes some patience, time and help in getting setup the perfect way for YOU. Do reach out to Cardo for help. I'm a pretty learned tech guy, and I still needed to get them to clarify a few things to get my setup working optimally.
I'm blown away with all the assistance I've been offered on this forum and I'm truly appreciative. I was pretty sure these problems weren't all me (some may have been), as the Hey Cardo function never worked (I plugged & unplugged connectors several times), and the DMC intercom stopped working after day 1. I was able to pair the two sets in bluetooth intercom and that worked. I use Apple car play, so in testing everything, if I pressed the bluetooth intercom button to talk, the background music would mute, as it should, but when talking was complete and one of us would press the button to stop the BT intercom, the audio from the ACP, the bike FM and the Bike CB audio would not return to the headsets. If I shut off bike and turn it back on, the bike audio would return to the headsets. However, if I was listening to FM through the headsets, it would return after BT intercom ending. So, I'm boxing everything up and returning for an exact replacement Duo unit and I will start all over in a few days.

Again, thanks for all the help each of you have offered. That's what I love about this forum.

Have a blessed week.
 

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There isn't a universal protocol with these Sena and Cardo Wireless Headsets, which is the main problem with linking all this Infotainment system stuff. Plus, the Manufacturers don't know how the Motorcycle Infotainment Systems work, and what riders are doing, or I should say..TRYING to do with them. The Sena units and the Cardo units work fine if you want to talk to a few other riders in a group, and you all have the same brand units. The problem comes when you want to do anything else that's coupled to the Infotainment systems. That's where the Senas and Cardos don't have a clue.


I know of two guys that have stablished a communications channel with both Sena and Cardo and are working with those companies to incorporate what the RIDER using a Motorcycle with a built-in Infotainment System wants the Headsets to do. One benefit the Hinda Goldwing offers is that you have the unit that connects the headset to the Infotainment system already built-in to the Motorcycle. Harley makes you buy a WHIM, a Wireless Headset Interface Module, that connects your headset to the Infotainment System, as you know.

And if you are a really greedy person that wants STEREO sound too, you have to buy a Harley branded SENA headset. They regular Sena won't give you stereo. LOL!
The problem is Hondas/HK's BT version is 2.1+EDR, it's now 12 years old! It has a very basic hub function setup by pairing order. It's basically what a bluetooth keyboard and mouse works on and that's all it was ever intended for,,,, very very basic set and locked hub function. +EDR brings more bandwidth in a very dirty and non efficient way.The cardos use BT 4.1 and specs show the Sena 50 is still BT 4.1 which is really ok for what they want to accomplish. Now operation between the senas and cardos is completely controlled by there internal software and processor. Thats why senas and cardos rarely get along together. I can pair two sena 10s and the two cardos, my iphone and the wifes android phone and phones paired to cardos and senas to the sync3 in my lowly fusion. They all communicate with each other, don't have to unpair the phones from the sync3 to use carplay or android auto. You can be running the sena app and cardo app on there respected paired units. What makes all this happen is a proper BT version 3.0 implementation. BT 3.0 brought Bluetooth out of the digital stone age. It brings a auto hub, expands pairing with prioritizing and polling of paired units/nodes and tons more bandwidth than 2.1 or 2.1+EDR. The cost incurred with BT 3.0 was shorter battery life. Then BT 4.0/4.1 greatly increased battery life and more bandwidth. Thus BT 5.0, 5.1,5.2 expand at huge amounts of 4.1. So Honda used a severly out dated BT version. And the idiots at Harley and BMW properly crippled there units so you have to buy the WHIM/Hub and or there certified com units because the key to the other code needed to make them work with full function is in there proprietary components/software.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
The problem is Hondas/HK's BT version is 2.1+EDR, it's now 12 years old! It has a very basic hub function setup by pairing order. It's basically what a bluetooth keyboard and mouse works on and that's all it was ever intended for,,,, very very basic set and locked hub function. +EDR brings more bandwidth in a very dirty and non efficient way.The cardos use BT 4.1 and specs show the Sena 50 is still BT 4.1 which is really ok for what they want to accomplish. Now operation between the senas and cardos is completely controlled by there internal software and processor. Thats why senas and cardos rarely get along together. I can pair two sena 10s and the two cardos, my iphone and the wifes android phone and phones paired to cardos and senas to the sync3 in my lowly fusion. They all communicate with each other, don't have to unpair the phones from the sync3 to use carplay or android auto. You can be running the sena app and cardo app on there respected paired units. What makes all this happen is a proper BT version 3.0 implementation. BT 3.0 brought Bluetooth out of the digital stone age. It brings a auto hub, expands pairing with prioritizing and polling of paired units/nodes and tons more bandwidth than 2.1 or 2.1+EDR. The cost incurred with BT 3.0 was shorter battery life. Then BT 4.0/4.1 greatly increased battery life and more bandwidth. Thus BT 5.0, 5.1,5.2 expand at huge amounts of 4.1. So Honda used a severly out dated BT version. And the idiots at Harley and BMW properly crippled there units so you have to buy the WHIM/Hub and or there certified com units because the key to the other code needed to make them work with full function is in there proprietary components/software.
Thanks BLAST for your insight. Maybe Honda will address all this in a future firmware update,
 

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The problem is Hondas/HK's BT version is 2.1+EDR, it's now 12 years old! It has a very basic hub function setup by pairing order. It's basically what a bluetooth keyboard and mouse works on and that's all it was ever intended for,,,, very very basic set and locked hub function. +EDR brings more bandwidth in a very dirty and non efficient way.The cardos use BT 4.1 and specs show the Sena 50 is still BT 4.1 which is really ok for what they want to accomplish. Now operation between the senas and cardos is completely controlled by there internal software and processor. Thats why senas and cardos rarely get along together. I can pair two sena 10s and the two cardos, my iphone and the wifes android phone and phones paired to cardos and senas to the sync3 in my lowly fusion. They all communicate with each other, don't have to unpair the phones from the sync3 to use carplay or android auto. You can be running the sena app and cardo app on there respected paired units. What makes all this happen is a proper BT version 3.0 implementation. BT 3.0 brought Bluetooth out of the digital stone age. It brings a auto hub, expands pairing with prioritizing and polling of paired units/nodes and tons more bandwidth than 2.1 or 2.1+EDR. The cost incurred with BT 3.0 was shorter battery life. Then BT 4.0/4.1 greatly increased battery life and more bandwidth. Thus BT 5.0, 5.1,5.2 expand at huge amounts of 4.1. So Honda used a severly out dated BT version. And the idiots at Harley and BMW properly crippled there units so you have to buy the WHIM/Hub and or there certified com units because the key to the other code needed to make them work with full function is in there proprietary components/software.
Wow! You really know a lot about this subject from a technical point. I thank you for your explanation, but it's way over my head. LOL. But what I do know is that right now, the wireless industry and the Bike companies don't have their collective act together for the consumer. The consumer wants the headset units and the Infotainment systems to "play nice" with each other, and at this time they don't.

It's nice to have someone like you around that understands the technical side of it and what the manufacturers are doing/not doing. You can explain to the rest of us where they are making it hard on us.

But really most of maybe not understand technical, nor care, but we know when we are being jacked around. WE don't want to hear their excuses, we just want the problems we're having fixed.
 

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It's not the cardos. It's Hondas sorry BT version 2.1+EDR. You can not use Hondas junk system and the cardos or any sena at full potential with the Wing. You are locked into a certain mode of operation. If you deviate from Honda/Harmon Kardon's mode of operation and protocol, failure is your friend Sir. You have to use cardos very good app to get all your settings right and setup independent of Hondas junk system. Set yours up with your phone and hers with her phone. Then unpair the phones from the cardos. I know it's dumb as can be. Then make sure yours and the wifes cardos are paired on the standard bluetooth. Then pair your cardo to Wing as #1 and hers as #2. Then you can pair the phone to the bike, but if you want to use carplay or the pending android auto you have to turn your cell phone pairing with the bike off. It really is utterly stupid how Honda/HK screwed this up with BT 2.1+EDR from 2008. The 2.1 was the very first version of BT to have hub function. And it's a dumb hub. It has no ability to prioritise channels, nodes or data transfer. The +EDR is a very cheap and dirty way to basically side stream data because 2.1 alone did not have the needed bandwidth to keep the connects/nodes/pairing and through put the data needed in one package. BT version 3.0 was the first smart hub that ran like a little network and priorities became a thing of the past from setup to use and user interface. So with that little bit of knowledge understood and set aside let's look at the Honda system. We have a navi that is a slightly changed honda car navi from 2006. Our units have real memory for storage and are not dvd driven, but we lost the touch screen. So we can only operate them through buttons in a very archaic manor. And if setup correctly we get audio from navi, whoopi. FM reception is bad at best. Both my sena 10s and cardos have better built in FM reception. We have the ability to use the main usb cable for carplay or up coming aa or we can use it as a data port to listen to music. Or add another usb cable for data only. So I really don't gain much by using Hondas truly out of date system. And the cardos are impressive used as stand alone. Pair them up with each other. Wife can have her phone paired, I have mine paired, we both have our cardo app, she can listen to her music. I listen to mine or we can share music or phone calls, txt msg. They will do more than either one of us will ever use and sound pretty good to boot. My old iphone 8 has 256 gig of storage. Just with the 30+ gig of music I have on it now I could listen to music for better than 3 months and never hear the same tune twice if I wanted. I can use phone navi and be just fine. And still use hondas way sub par navi if I needed to because of lost or low cell signal. And if I have to have carplay I can buy it and put it on my phone. Honda put more into the marketing of there infotainment system than they did in tech. Every bit of it is old and outdated tech. On one hand it kind of pissed me of,,,, it did piss me off. But on the other I have a really great cardo duo system that is really good. I still have hondas junk if I need it with a outdated navi, fm from the stone age and a audio system that sounds like a boom box from the dollar tree. It's a win for me...
Thanks for the great explanation of what's going on. I ditched the JBL speakers that came with my Packtalk Bold as they were subpar at best and custom fit my helmet with a set of 40mm drivers that work remarkably well. The first thing I noticed is the high frequency roll-off. I paired my phone directly, a Samsung Note 9, to the Packtalk and quickly noticed the amazing highs and bass. Man, this sounds great. The Packtalk has really good frequency response so I ruled that out of the equation. Came back to the bike's Bluetooth and found it sucked, but didn't know why until your explanation. I even thought Honda might have programmed an equalization curve into the sound system because you're not going to hear any highs or bass with the onboard speakers, so why waste energy on amplifying them. Using the phone I get amazing sound, proper indexing of my music library, and better navigation with Waze
 

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Discussion Starter #40
UPDATE ON MY ISSUES:
I returned the Duo units and received the new set today. I also got a response from the support team, (pasted below). The Cardo Duo set actually worked right out of the box. I updated the firmware, tweeted the settings with the Cardo app and it's almost working properly. The only issue I've run across is that the "Hey Cardo" function works about one in ten tries. Not sure if a setting will help that. Will fiddle with it tomorrow.

Technical Support response: If I read it correctly it says: If you want to use your Goldwing on board audio functions, you can't use the intercom or Hey Cardo! WHAT??
****
Thank you for contacting Cardo Support.

The way to connect to a bike would be to connect the phone to the bike, then the Cardo to the bike, and then the Cardo to the GPS.

When connected to the bike you will lose functionality on the device. The device becomes basically a headset for the bike and will only have access to what the bike allows. So when connected to the bike you will have no natural voice commands.

There are only two connections available through the Cardo unit that is the reason one is getting kicked out, you cannot connect all three.

The Community will no longer work for the PackTalk or Freecom devices, all of the settings on your device will be on the Cardo Connect app.

Best regards,
XXXX
Cardo Systems Technical Support
 
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