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Discussion Starter #1
Hi & thanks for the add!

My 2005 Gl1800 clutch is slipping when engine has been ticking over for 30mins.
New clutch and friction plates fitted
New clutch fluid & Slave cylinder
Re-sealed Master cylinder
No blocked hole in Master cylinder.
Fresh Motul 10W 40 and filter
Oils fluids at correct levels
The clutch engages perfectly when the engine is cold, but when you have been ticking over for some time, the clutch slips or won't engage, depending how long you have been ticking over and stationery.
As the engine cools down when travelling the clutch stops slipping in relation to the heat loss.
Any ideas would be gratefully received.
If I had hair, I would have pulled it out by now !
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Clutch slip when hot

That sure sounds like air in the clutch system.


Rayjoe
Hi Rayjoe,
The clutch fluid has been changed for new fluid to try and cure the problem, no air in the system.
The clutch disengages perfectly, but seems to have trouble re-engaging when hot, i.e. slips !
 

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You say oils/fluids are at the correct levels, but please be certain and for sure your clutch fluid level is not too high in the handlebar master. Otherwise, try switching out to a 100% non-synthetic motor oil to see if you get better results. I know oil is a hot topic, but I have never experienced slipping clutch when using Rotella 15w40 T4 in all my bikes.

I don't think this problem has anything to do with trapped air. An air bubble would probably cause limpness in the clutch lever, and/or having it jump forward as you put it into gear even though you had a hand full of clutch lever when shifting.
 

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Here is what Honda says:

Clutch slips
• Stuck piston
• Clogged hydraulic system
• Discs worn
• Weak clutch spring
• Clutch regulator valve stuck open (page 11-15)
• Low oil pressure (page 5-4)

Here is what I would add to their list. Because of various problems when using a synthetic oil, one of which can be a slipping clutch, 5th gens do best when using a conventional oil m/c specific oil, and the best oil for them continues to be Honda's GN4. For a 2001-06, Honda recommends a 10w-40.

Other things to check for
- the use of an incorrect oil filter (do an oil pressure test) or install and OEM one
- incorrect stacking of parts during reassembly ???
- are the sharp side of the clutch plates all facing rearward ???
- is the lock-nut torqued and stacked correctly at the back of the clutch pack ???

Why was the old clutch replaced ???
 

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My clutch engages when the lever is only an inch from the grip since day one. I have tried to get the dealer to address this issue. Even complained to factory reps at Daytona Bike Week. If the clutch does not completely disengage (like air in the line)the plates will rub, get hot, and slip. I use neutral, rather than hold the lever, at every stop. Been to busy riding to do Honda's job. Hope I don't need their warranty.
 

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My clutch engages when the lever is only an inch from the grip since day one. I have tried to get the dealer to address this issue. Even complained to factory reps at Daytona Bike Week. If the clutch does not completely disengage (like air in the line)the plates will rub, get hot, and slip. I use neutral, rather than hold the lever, at every stop. Been to busy riding to do Honda's job. Hope I don't need their warranty.
Does changing the lever adjustment wheel make any difference?
 

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I have a new 2014 Valkyrie. I finally bled the clutch and front brakes, today. Helped a little. I may try a different lever because there is a little looseness.
Thanks for the tip.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Clutch slip when hot

Here is what Honda says:

Clutch slips
• Stuck piston
• Clogged hydraulic system
• Discs worn
• Weak clutch spring
• Clutch regulator valve stuck open (page 11-15)
• Low oil pressure (page 5-4)

Here is what I would add to their list. Because of various problems when using a synthetic oil, one of which can be a slipping clutch, 5th gens do best when using a conventional oil m/c specific oil, and the best oil for them continues to be Honda's GN4. For a 2001-06, Honda recommends a 10w-40.

Other things to check for
- the use of an incorrect oil filter (do an oil pressure test) or install and OEM one
- incorrect stacking of parts during reassembly ???
- are the sharp side of the clutch plates all facing rearward ???
- is the lock-nut torqued and stacked correctly at the back of the clutch pack ???

Why was the old clutch replaced ???
Hi Greg,
I was going on a long journey with a passenger, fully loaded with a loaded camping trailer on tow, so as the trike had done 52,000 miles, many of which was slipping the clutch in slow parades, in my wisdom, I thought I would change the clutch, I'm sorry the day I did now, as no problems prior to changing it.
We have tested everything you suggested and every thing is still the same.
My Mechanic has 30+ years experience working on Goldwings, as a Honda franchise principal Goldwing mechanic.
We have gone over the bike from top to bottom and he is still scratching his head.
We have now taken the new clutch out again, to look at the condition after slipping so much.
The new clutch is now out and not overheated. The assembly is in the correct order.
As I suspected the clutch would have something wrong with it, I purchased new friction plates and steel plates, so we may as well now re-assemble and fit the new gear.
The only thing we have not been able to check whilst hot, is the push rod, it is operating quite smoothly when cold, but It could possibly be binding when hot, just my thought.
As my mechanic has now gone on holiday, do you know how I would get the clutch push rod out and would it be easy.
Regards, Dave...………..
 

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As my mechanic has now gone on holiday, do you know how I would get the clutch push rod out and would it be easy.
Regards, Dave...………..
If you're referring to the rod #19 that pushes on part #14, then to remove it, remove the slave cylinder and just pull the rod out with your fingers. For clearance, you might have to remove the front tire. I've never removed a rod that way and the center of it is a little larger in diameter then the ends. Therefore, it might be best to have seal available. The seal might need to be removed first. The seal would come out easy with a pick. To reinstall it, put the rod in first, oil and grease the seal per the Service Manual, and install it with your thumbs.

https://www.mrcycles.com/oemparts/a/hon/5053ed9af870021c54be4aa3/clutch

The seal is part #30.

https://www.mrcycles.com/oemparts/a/hon/5053ed9af870021c54be4aac/cylinder-block

Are you by chance over filling the clutch m/c ??? The full line is much lower than in any other clutch master cylinder probably made. If it's over filled, it can cause clutch slippage. Do not fill it like it is the front brake m/c ... full barely covers the sight glass.

When releasing your clutch lever, does it fully move the lever out, or is it still engaged a little ??? Another way of asking that, with the lever off, and the boot at the back of the m/c removed, is the clutch piston/washer seating against the e-clip ??? With the engine off, and when pulling in on the clutch, can you hear the normal "squishing" from the oil assist chamber ???

What trike kit do you have ???
Is your trike independent or solid ???
How much payload are you carrying and what is max weight of your trailer pull ???
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
If you're referring to the rod #19 that pushes on part #14, then to remove it, remove the slave cylinder and just pull the rod out with your fingers. For clearance, you might have to remove the front tire. I've never removed a rod that way and the center of it is a little larger in diameter then the ends. Therefore, it might be best to have seal available. The seal might need to be removed first. The seal would come out easy with a pick. To reinstall it, put the rod in first, oil and grease the seal per the Service Manual, and install it with your thumbs.

https://www.mrcycles.com/oemparts/a/hon/5053ed9af870021c54be4aa3/clutch

The seal is part #30.

https://www.mrcycles.com/oemparts/a/hon/5053ed9af870021c54be4aac/cylinder-block

Are you by chance over filling the clutch m/c ??? The full line is much lower than in any other clutch master cylinder probably made. If it's over filled, it can cause clutch slippage. Do not fill it like it is the front brake m/c ... full barely covers the sight glass.

When releasing your clutch lever, does it fully move the lever out, or is it still engaged a little ??? Another way of asking that, with the lever off, and the boot at the back of the m/c removed, is the clutch piston/washer seating against the e-clip ??? With the engine off, and when pulling in on the clutch, can you hear the normal "squishing" from the oil assist chamber ???

What trike kit do you have ???
Is your trike independent or solid ???
How much payload are you carrying and what is max weight of your trailer pull ???
Hi Greg,
The clutch lever releases all the way, the piston also.
I will have a go at the pushrod when I have the clutch back in, more than likely Friday.
My trike kit is an EML IRS, same as Eurowing USA all made in Holland.
Trailer gross weight 240kg + fully loaded bike and passenger, but never slips if the bike hasn't been standing ticking over.
Even with a full load it does not slip, only if it has been standing with the engine running for some time.
Thanks for your very comprehensive advice Greg. I will report back when I have it back together.
Regards, Dave ……..
 

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Hi Greg,
The clutch lever releases all the way, the piston also.
I will have a go at the pushrod when I have the clutch back in, more than likely Friday.
My trike kit is an EML IRS, same as Eurowing USA all made in Holland.
Trailer gross weight 240kg + fully loaded bike and passenger, but never slips if the bike hasn't been standing ticking over.
Even with a full load it does not slip, only if it has been standing with the engine running for some time.
Thanks for your very comprehensive advice Greg. I will report back when I have it back together.
Regards, Dave ……..
I doubt this is an oil type issue; however, are you using Honda GN4 oil ??? Because it is a trike, it is very important to not be using a synthetic oil.
I'm not familiar with your trike's drive shaft ... is it an altered OEM drive shaft with the rubber damper inside a tube ???
What is your oil pressure:
- after starting cold at high idle ???
- when oil is not at operating temp but engine has run long enough to reached idle ???
- when engine at operating temp (fans cycling) and at idle ???
- when engine at operating temp at 5,000 rpms ???
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I doubt this is an oil type issue; however, are you using Honda GN4 oil ??? Because it is a trike, it is very important to not be using a synthetic oil.
I'm not familiar with your trike's drive shaft ... is it an altered OEM drive shaft with the rubber damper inside a tube ???
What is your oil pressure:
- after starting cold at high idle ???
- when oil is not at operating temp but engine has run long enough to reached idle ???
- when engine at operating temp (fans cycling) and at idle ???
- when engine at operating temp at 5,000 rpms ???
I'm using Motul 10W 40 semi synthetic as recommended by my local Honda dealer, but I will change to GN4 oil if you think that will help.
I have not checked my oil pressure. If my latest fix doesn't work, I will check it.
The drive shaft is an EML modified Honda OM shaft.
On Wednesday I will collect new oil & filter, the remaining clutch plate. Put it all back together and see if I can borrow an oil pressure gauge.
Thanks once again Greg, onwards and upwards as they say !
 

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I'm using Motul 10W 40 semi synthetic as recommended by my local Honda dealer, but I will change to GN4 oil if you think that will help.
I have not checked my oil pressure. If my latest fix doesn't work, I will check it.
The drive shaft is an EML modified Honda OM shaft.
On Wednesday I will collect new oil & filter, the remaining clutch plate. Put it all back together and see if I can borrow an oil pressure gauge.
Thanks once again Greg, onwards and upwards as they say !
To test the drive shaft, remove the right side cover. Once it starts slipping, pull over and stop and see if you can see the output shaft spinning when stopped with the rear brake applied while letting the clutch out in a high gear. You can see the output shaft with the side cover off.
 

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If this problem only started immediately after exchanging all the clutch steels & pressure plates, what are the odds that the new steels & fibers total slightly too much thickness, and after heating slightly with normal engine temps, they are simply too thick to release totally?

I know nothing about total clutch thickness requirements, but have seen dragster bike guys sitting for hours reassembling "clutch packs" to be ready for race day changeouts between nearly each 1/4 mile pass, and for them, total thickness in each pack plays a critical part of their race pass.
 

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It sounds to me like the clutch fluid is heating up and expanding and applying the clutch. Two things I can think of that would cause that. One would be if the clutch reservoir was overfilled. It needs an air gap in it to allow for fluid expansion. Try removing some fluid from the reservoir and see if that helps.


The second thing would be a blocked return port orifice in the clutch master cylinder not allowing the fluid to return to the reservoir properly.
 

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This may be "off-topic" a bit, but, I'm a little spooky about clutches. I had an old '85 Yamaha Venture once that would act-up whenever things got a little hot. Bled the hydraulic clutch with limited success. Then I totally replaced the fluid with DOT 4 ( highest boiling point I could find at the time). That worked!

Since then, I only use DOT 5.1 in all my bikes. It, typically, has higher boiling point temperature ratings...but not always. Check your bottle. Just did a complete replacement yesterday as a matter of fact. Thank you Mr. SpeedBleeder!
 
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