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For fans of the hose culprit (me too!): Visual hose inspection at lunch time: nothing glaring. One retaining clip near the steering head is slightly out of place but not deforming the hose (pic later), probably hasn't moved in 13 years, but I'll tweak it back to correct. Couldn't readily see a part of the hose run behind inner cowl.

Follow up to post #71, Greg's keen eye spotted that I put the seal on the face of the slave piston in backwards. I guess that explains why the slave was stuck slightly more on the push rod for my second disassembly. I suppose it could rob me of a few mm of travel which might be my whole problem (grit for round 1, backward seal for round 2). I'll inspect the hose more (visual and pressure) before I fall in love with that magic pill.

I couldn't tell orientation from the service manual or fiche. No help from prior seal which was an act of demolition to remove. Best guide is this pic from the full assembly part, not the piston itself. It shows the little lip up. It looked to me like that lip went down to seat into the two step cutout in the piston face. D'oh.

View attachment 378204
Unless a hose is smashed or pinched, rarely will one be able to spot a bad flexible clutch/brake hose. If a hose goes bad, it deteriorates from within, and its inner can become like a trap door allowing clutch lever fluid pressure to pass one way, but pressure from the clutch's pressure-plate spring is not enough to force it back when the clutch lever is released. However, one can test for a bad hose ... see post #65 for that. Prior to that post, it was determined that when working the clutch lever, fluid was returning into the m/c's reservoir. If the piston at the back of the m/c is touching the c-clip, and if the fluid level is correct in the reservoir, and fluid pressure is found at the m/c banjo, that means that fluid pressure is coming from below ... it is not coming from the m/c piston or trapped fluid under the m/c cover. But no pressure was found ... it appears to be a relaxed system. Next was checking the banjo at the slave. If pressure was found there, but no pressure was found at the upper banjo ... walla ... trapped pressure somewhere in the hose. If there was pressure at the lower banjo, and the hose was good, pressure would be found at the upper banjo too. The hose tested good in post #65.

As for the seal at the back of the slave piston. The flatter part of the seal faces rearward. As stated in post #65, I doubt a seal that is installed backwards or crooked can over come the fluid pressure forces from the m/c or the spring pressure from the pressure plate. However, if part of its lip was torn and ended between the piston and the rod, that would be like having a longer push rod which would cause clutch slippage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #83 ·
I'm tracking the logic of the test. I just don't trust the tester. I will try it again to see if I get the same result. It's gotta be either the hose or the (grit the first time / backwards seal the second time) deal. The KISS principle / Occam's razor is betting on the hose.
 

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I didn't go back and re-read this thread, but didn't you indicate that you were surprised how dark some of the fluid was?

Might be a sign that the hose between the master and slave is deteriorating....which fits with the idea that a failure of the hose liner is blocking/restricting the return flow.
 

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Hi big bird with out going back and reading the whole blog again. Did you check the master cylinder where the pushrod goes int the sealing boot to see if it was tarred up inside it ???
 

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Any updates Big Bird? Hopefully you got this resolved. Sitting on the sidelines cheering for you brother!!!
 
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Discussion Starter · #89 · (Edited)
Any updates Big Bird? Hopefully you got this resolved. Sitting on the sidelines cheering for you brother!!!
Nope. Not really. The hose FINALLY got here Friday. So much for "Availability: 2 to 3 days." It's snowing here now and nothing in the 10-day forecast is going to melt it. It will be a while before I get a test drive in.

It was a nice day yesterday. I thought about quickly slapping it together because "I gots to know." But I've got it apart doing some farkle wiring for the warm weather ahead, so I took the other bike out for a couple of hours.

 

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Discussion Starter · #90 ·
Update. Not a great one.

I FINALLY finished putting this together, with the new clutch hose. It still slips. WTF?

So now I've done about everything that's doable on the hydraulics. Starting to think that maybe I didn't man up enough in the "test it with the slave cylinder removed and see if you can make it slip" test. It doesn't slip really bad, but it slips. And that I may never have had a hydraulic problem at all.

My immediate plan is to try some SeaFoam in the oil for 150 miles or so, then some fresh Honda oil and see if a miracle happens. Perhaps there will get rid of an additive from its prior life (I doubt it) or magically free up the oil regulator (doubt that, too), but it's a cheap lottery ticket.

After that, I'll look for a bigger hammer.
 

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Update. Not a great one.

I FINALLY finished putting this together, with the new clutch hose. It still slips. WTF?

So now I've done about everything that's doable on the hydraulics. Starting to think that maybe I didn't man up enough in the "test it with the slave cylinder removed and see if you can make it slip" test. It doesn't slip really bad, but it slips. And that I may never have had a hydraulic problem at all.

My immediate plan is to try some SeaFoam in the oil for 150 miles or so, then some fresh Honda oil and see if a miracle happens. Perhaps there will get rid of an additive from its prior life (I doubt it) or magically free up the oil regulator (doubt that, too), but it's a cheap lottery ticket.

After that, I'll look for a bigger hammer.
Just drive it gently down to Greg and let him replace the clutch. You鈥檒l be glad you did.
 

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That's a long way from DC
Since they come here from all over the United States and Canada, for maintenance and repair, I label him a local.
  • neighbors - with in the state of FL
  • locals - within 5 states away
 

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Clutch slipping. It came on all of a sudden. So much for a beautiful day to ride.

25K on a 2006. 8K of that by me in the last year. Prior to me, it wasn't ridden a lot but it wasn't completely ignored. I did all the maintenance a year ago when I got the bike. So it's reasonably up to date (oil is now due) and I used the right fluids. Nothing done recently to point a finger at.

In all gears, if I give it a good bit of throttle (firm, doesn't have to be HUGE), the engine revs up and the speed not so much. I have to stay with moderate acceleration to not wind up in the friction/slippage zone.

I saw this thread (among others) and this post in particular:
Clutch slip
that focuses on a specific port as a likely suspect for the clogging. Elsewhere in the thread, drive shaft rubber omes up in the list of suspects.

@Waldo or anyone, do you the image from that old post handy? It's gone now. The one about the port to unclog.

Drive shaft at 25K seems unlikely to me. Other opinions?

I've got a little crud around the boot where the lever / pushrod / piston are in the master cylinder. I though that might be at fault but, while not pretty, the pushrod/piston seems to be moving without sticking.

Here's what the service manual suggests. Most of it looks beyond me. Hoping for a hydraulic miracle.

View attachment 374438
You might want to replace your 3 coils. If it sputters and you have to clutch it and give more than normal throttle, i would suspect the coils would probably be the culprit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #98 ·
Well I tried a lottery ticket and, as expected, it didn't hit. I put 8 oz of SeaFoam in, rode around gently for 120 miles, and put in some new GN4 10w30. No luck. I didn't think I had an oil problem. Some folks said that would fix it if I did.

I may mooch or buy an oil pressure gage, but otherwise am completely out of Schlitz. I will aim to find some time where I can auto train to the "local" real pro (preferred) or roll the dice with a more local "pro" and hope I don't get a faux pro.
 

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Dang! I'm real curious what the problem is! Please keep us posted. I've been following this thread. Here's hoping you find a solution.


Rayjoe
 
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