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Discussion Starter #1
This one came in because it leaks coolant. I already tightened a clamp under the tank that was "peeing" coolant down the back of the clutch cover. Also, already tightened is the large clamp under the right head. Hopefully after these, the 3rd and 4th leak, chasing coolant leaks will end. His cap failed its pressure test also, so it'd be nearly impossible for him to know about them. Just an FYI ... a cooling system not holding pressure has lost upto 55 degrees of boil over protection.

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Good info here. Chasing coolant leaks is no fun but running with a leaking cooling system will surely put you on the side of the road eventually.
 

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Harrrrrrrr. I'll come right back at Ya with your own typical question; "Year and mileage?" LOL! OK, the mileage is not so significant, but the year model is since I (we) are hoping Honda has finally learned to get the clamps on properly (would be better if they would use better clamps), but we have been hearing that since about 2002.

Once you get the hoses taught (tight may not be the right word as two of the most bothersome couplers are the thin plastic tri-joints under the tank and above the right cat), there is another solution (pun intended) to avoid the all too common defective cap/failing cap. Its somewhat of a PIA, but works very well. My pressure cap is no more a pressure cap at all, I removed relief gasket and let it have free communication with the recovery tank. I can do this and still have boil protection way beyond pressurized 50:50 H2O/ethylene glycol mix by using anhydrous coolant.

Mine is Evans NPG+. It has worked great and has not even offered to boil or over-expand the recovery tank. The thermal efficiency is a bit less than water mix at low to normal engine temps, but as the temps rise to where the water mix is defeated and steams; the NPG+ gets more and more efficient and the heads and other engine parts stay well in a safe temp range where as the steamed parts of a water mix system are going to sky-rocket in temp and risk warping and failure of gaskets if the driver can not pull over and idle it down in short time. You can run the anhydrous coolants under pressure for even more upper range, but that is not necessary at all and having the system at low to no pressure is easy on the hoses and other parts.

The down side; the cooling system has to cleaned be dehydrated. When I first did mine, that meant a flush, a citric acid/water re-flush (2002 models like mine were reported by Honda to be prone to galvanic corrosion at the front right head - so I had to make sure that was clear), and a couple of distilled water flushes after that. Post "improvement campaign bikes of 2003 and later should not need citric and water flushes). Then a flush with non-diluted Sierra coolant to soak-up any excess water and yet another flush with the expensive NPG+ and finally the re-fill with NPG+. Time, aggravation and $. But, once done the anhydrous is permanent; as in forever unless someone adds water to the system. There is no corrosion, go jelly boogers, no acidic breakdown of the product. Another downside some have mentioned is the higher viscosity of the product. It is a little more viscous than 50:50. I think these two "problems" are pretty much in the past. There should be no galvanic corrosion in present bikes, a new formulation seems to be available from Evans that is less viscous, and Evans now sells a dehydration agent that gets the water out in one flushing (I think).

Greg, in your case, where you are tearing engines down and starting fresh with dry systems, this is a real easy option. Flush it, clean it, disassemble and fix it; re-fill with the good stuff. Only flaw is a slight increase initial expense. Check out the Evans site for more detail, there may be another company making similar stuff too. Then again, present weather noted, over-heating seems not to be an immediate problem. Summer is right around the corner!

prs
 

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Just using common sense you see, as I ride my bike about every day.......well not lately as it is tooooooo cold. Lol. This cold is a revolting development for us Southern Boys, even with anti-freeze it is awful cold.

Back to that common sense thing, I do think my bike is not about to self destruct, I am quite sure if it does develop a coolant leak there will be a little puddle of coolant under the bike. Now as with the 1500 and the other older bikes, during cold weather and using the elements of expansion and contraction it has always been normal for some bikes to leak a little coolant while setting in the cold, due to contraction of different materials.

As soon as warm weather returns or the bike is fired and heated up the leak stops and only returns next year.

I just checked mine as it has set for a week........brrrrrrrrr...........and it does not appear to be ready to self destruct.

I have no intention of the purchase of a test system either, my test system is to go out and look on the garage floor and see what I see.

Just along the lines of common sense you see.
 

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just keep a can of pepper n some bubble gum with ya . pr =will check out other option on coolant - cant see doing unless doing big motor work . my 05 when i did air filter n other maint. checked clamps and all were loose !!! none leaking at that time.:bow:got to stand on your head to get to clamp screws on some !
 

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Not many of us have a pressure tester, but you can borrow them from many many auto-parts stores, I got one from an Autozone store that included an adapter for motorcycles. Pay a small, refundable deposit and take it home. It resolved my issue with an anti-freeze smell coming from an old hose. They also have other seldom needed tools for free loans such as torque wrenches and such.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Harrrrrrrr. I'll come right back at Ya with your own typical question; "Year and mileage?" LOL! OK, the mileage is not so significant, but the year model is since I (we) are hoping Honda has finally learned to get the clamps on properly (would be better if they would use better clamps), but we have been hearing that since about 2002.

prs
Actually, those are very pertinent questions. Here is why. In this case it's a 2002 with 30k. According to Honda's maintenance schedule, this Wing's cooling system needs pressure tested and the coolant changed every 2 years. Keep in mind, the 05's and down are known for overheating problems. That means in 2004, 06, 08, 10, and in 2012, if any of these leaks were there then, they should have been addressed then. Since so many coolant leaks are now detected, can one assume this was a well maintained Wing? If you saw this Wing for sale, and was attracted to it, with that knowledge, would you buy it?

I often detect disappointment from a customer when I report leaks as such especially to a second owner. If they ask why, I might stress the need for proper maintenance and the 2yr coolant change/check. But I don't have too .... they're already identifying with the real maintenance picture of what they thought was different.
 

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By the way. Why doesn't Honda use CT (constant tension) clamps. This has been standard in the automotive industry for quite some time.

Typically cheaper to produce and quicker to assemble. Spring tension compensates for some hose shrinkage over time.

I can only guess access is so tight it may not allow the release pliers to reach.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
By the way. Why doesn't Honda use CT (constant tension) clamps. This has been standard in the automotive industry for quite some time.

Typically cheaper to produce and quicker to assemble. Spring tension compensates for some hose shrinkage over time.

I can only guess access is so tight it may not allow the release pliers to reach.
That could easily be. Plus the routing of hoses and looms is critical on a GL1800. The CT clamps expose more sharp corners and possibly that as well as access may play a role.

I was at a car show this last weekend and think I was looking at a Dodge Charger and saw Dodge was using them too. When I saw them, in my mind it made me revisit the same question.
 

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Evans

Mine is Evans NPG+. It has worked great and has not even offered to boil or over-expand the recovery tank. The thermal efficiency is a bit less than water mix at low to normal engine temps, but as the temps rise to where the water mix is defeated and steams; the NPG+ gets more and more efficient and the heads and other engine parts stay well in a safe temp range where as the steamed parts of a water mix system are going to sky-rocket in temp and risk warping and failure of gaskets if the driver can not pull over and idle it down in short time. You can run the anhydrous coolants under pressure for even more upper range, but that is not necessary at all and having the system at low to no pressure is easy on the hoses and other parts.
I saw your post about your conversion to Evans and wondered if you would add your option to this thread.

It would seem to me that the potential problem with using Evans is needing to refill the coolant on a trip due to a cooling system problem when you might not have any NPG+ available. However, I'm thinking that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages, so I plan to try it this spring when I do my coolant flush.
 

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I run Evans in my 1914 Cadillac 1933 Pierce Arrow 2001 7.3 diesel and the Gold Wing . I came across the product when i was racing and had problems breaking heads and scoring pistons from extreme high temps caused by dirt getting on the radiator and blocking the air flow. GOOD stuff.
 

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I saw your post about your conversion to Evans and wondered if you would add your option to this thread.

It would seem to me that the potential problem with using Evans is needing to refill the coolant on a trip due to a cooling system problem when you might not have any NPG+ available. However, I'm thinking that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages, so I plan to try it this spring when I do my coolant flush.
I have not had to add any other than post tear-down, when I replaced with Evans NPG+ again. You don't expect to find Evans at AutoZonr or NAPA local stores, but you could find it at most any heavy rig truck stop or large truck supply company. Worse comes to worse, you could add undiluted Sierra coolant to get by without water logging the Evans and then dump it once your repairs are made and simply refill with new Evans. If you run without the pressure the hoses and joints are not stressed and probably would not leak unless damaged in a collision or such. Since the NPG+ or other motorcycle specific variety is not going to boil over, the system is not going to purge when over-heated, so that leaves water pump failure as the next plausible calamity and then you are in for a fairly tedious repair anyway. Nothing wrong with conventional coolant when changed regularly with current bikes, but the Evans product is excellent.

prs
 

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Just using common sense you see, as I ride my bike about every day.......well not lately as it is tooooooo cold. Lol. This cold is a revolting development for us Southern Boys, even with anti-freeze it is awful cold.

Back to that common sense thing, I do think my bike is not about to self destruct, I am quite sure if it does develop a coolant leak there will be a little puddle of coolant under the bike. Now as with the 1500 and the other older bikes, during cold weather and using the elements of expansion and contraction it has always been normal for some bikes to leak a little coolant while setting in the cold, due to contraction of different materials.

As soon as warm weather returns or the bike is fired and heated up the leak stops and only returns next year.

I just checked mine as it has set for a week........brrrrrrrrr...........and it does not appear to be ready to self destruct.

I have no intention of the purchase of a test system either, my test system is to go out and look on the garage floor and see what I see.

Just along the lines of common sense you see.
I agree!
 

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Interesting a zero PSI coolant system. THATS A HUGE BONUS

I have not had to add any other than post tear-down, when I replaced with Evans NPG+ again. You don't expect to find Evans at AutoZonr or NAPA local stores, but you could find it at most any heavy rig truck stop or large truck supply company. Worse comes to worse, you could add undiluted Sierra coolant to get by without water logging the Evans and then dump it once your repairs are made and simply refill with new Evans. If you run without the pressure the hoses and joints are not stressed and probably would not leak unless damaged in a collision or such. Since the NPG+ or other motorcycle specific variety is not going to boil over, the system is not going to purge when over-heated, so that leaves water pump failure as the next plausible calamity and then you are in for a fairly tedious repair anyway. Nothing wrong with conventional coolant when changed regularly with current bikes, but the Evans product is excellent.

prs


Knowing what I know about pressure and boiling point and the reasons for coolant I am very attracted to a $40 bottle of antifreeze. Even more so if I can maintain the boiling point with no pressure.... I'm going to the website to check but whats the freeze protection of it? Same as coolant? And do you change the fluid every 2 years still since it wont corrode or acid up?

Shag
 

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Evans website

Here is the website for Evans Coolant.

http://www.evanscooling.com/

Has a good interview of the company rep by Jay Leno too.
 

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Never Leak.

It would likely never leak because the only pressure that would generate (provided you had disabled your cap to prevent pressure buildup) would be from the resistance to flow to the water pump. So basically little pressure on half of the system the other half would be potentially or effectively a vacuum because of the pull from the water pump. I know there's a better explanation than that but I'm not smart enough to give it. basically a vehicle uses pressure in addition to the glycol mix to increase the boiling point of the water/glycol mix.

If you did have a leak (besides being expensive) you could still test it with the Snap-On tester. Just don’t exceed the factory rating for the system, whatever that is. BUT again THAT waterless coolant needs no pressure to provide boil over protection. A 360-370 F. Boiling point at 0psi. That’s way better than water and better than H2O+ coolant+water wetter+ LOTS OF PRESSURE. No pressure = no Leaks.

If it sounds like I'm buying whole heartedly it’s because I am. Look at the facts.


NPG
Boils [email protected]
Freezes -79F
Viscosity [email protected]
Surface Tension 36dyn/cm

NPG Automotive
Boils 375F @0psi
Freezes -40F
Viscosity 2.3cp @ 212F
Surface Tension 44dyn/cm


Let’s face it, Glycol makes water a very poor conductor of heat/BTU/Energy, but you need the increased boil protection that it provides as well as the freeze protection that accompanies that. AND they still have to pressurize it to increase the boil over protection.
I would post water (no glycol) boiling points at pressure but I can’t find a good chart. Here are some specific points.

246 Degrees at 14psi at sea level,
238 at 10psi at sea level,
and 250 at 16psi at sea level.

Another good thing is that waterless coolant does not flash over to steam until well above 300 degrees and thus will still absorb heat/energy/BTU should you do have a heat issue with your engine.


AND ACCORDING TO THEM IT’S LIFETIME FLUID. So $40 for a gallon and you never need to change it, versus a gallon every 2 years. No brainer to me.

It would have kept me from blowing up my Monte Carlo the other day too when the radiator let go.
 

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Each pound of Pressure will raise the Boiling Point of Water about 3*F.

The specification for the Radiator Cap on a Goldwing is 16 - 20 PSI.

Thus a properly operating Radiator Cap should result in a Water Boiling Point of between 260*F and 272*F
212*F + (3 X 16) = 260*F
212*F + (3 X 20) = 272*F

These temperatures are all BEFORE you have added Coolant to the mix which will bump the Boiling Point even higher.

A good link that gives a layman's explanation for how this all works can be found here: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/cooling-system7.htm

With respect to disabling the Radiator Cap. This is probably not a real good idea, even if no boil over occurs. The way in which Coolant flows through the Engine overall and the Cylinder Heads in particular; is to a large degree (no pun intended) dependent on the pressure that the Water Pump generates in the Engine Block, as compared to the Cylinder Head(s), and finally the Radiator(s). In many engines the correct Coolant Flow and it's routing through the Cylinder Head, which contains the hottest points in the engine, depends on the pressure differential between the Cylinder Block which receives the Coolant first, and then the Cylinder Heads. If you've ever wondered why the coolant passage holes in the Head Gaskets on many engines are not the same size as the holes in the Block or in the Cylinder Head . . . this is why. Even on an "Open Deck" Block design such as used on our Goldwings the size shape and position of the Coolant Passage Holes in the Cylinder Head are not exactly random and simply structurally significant.
 

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For those of you running this stuff, have you disabled the pressure on the radiator cap?
 

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Knowing what I know about pressure and boiling point and the reasons for coolant I am very attracted to a $40 bottle of antifreeze. Even more so if I can maintain the boiling point with no pressure.... I'm going to the website to check but whats the freeze protection of it? Same as coolant? And do you change the fluid every 2 years still since it wont corrode or acid up?

Shag
Shag, it is permanent. I forget the cold protection, but do recall that it is way low.

prs
 
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