GL1800Riders Forums banner

1 - 20 of 45 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,352 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I just know this is a subject near and dear to all of us . . . .

Let's be honest now; how many of us actually replace the Crush Washer (Part Number 94109-14000) when changing the Engine/Transmission Oil and/or the Differential Oil?

The Service Manual (see below) does say; "Install the oil drain bolt with a new sealing washer and tighten it."

Now really . . . . why a new Sealing Washer? The old one looks perfectly fine and reusing it doesn't seem to invite any certain disaster.

So anyhow, I thought I'd see just how much "sealing" this Crush Washer does. It turns out that it actually does engage and function as a fairly well designed seal between the Bolt and the Case.

The attached picture tells a story. The old Crush Washer is on the left, a new Crush Washer is on the right. First notice how the old Crush Washer has grooves in it. This indicates that the Crush Washer has deformed ever so slightly to accommodate any irregularities in the surface of the Case and/or the flange of the Bolt. Of greater interest is that this Crush Washer actually does "crush". I have a handful of new Crush Washers and they all measure exactly 0.080" thick. The used Crush Washer shown here measures 0.074" thick. This represents (not counting the grooves on the used washer) a minimum crush of 0.006" This is actually fairly significant. Metals have elastic properties. While under compression a metal will exert a force in the direction opposite to that which is compressing it. The 0.006" difference tells me that the torque specified for tightening the Bolt exceeds the elastic limit of the metal the Crush Washer is comprised of. The good news is that when a new Crush Washer is used its elasticity helps to effectively seal the opening. The bad news is that once it's elastic limit has been exceeded per the torque specification its sealing capability has been seriously compromised if it is reused.

Based on personal experience, having reused these Crush Washers more often than I'd care to admit (or boast of) the risk one runs is probably not terribly great. On the other hand, Honda is correct, in as much as to minimize the possibility of any failures and or leaks or weepage, one probably should replace the Crush Washer.

You may now file this away under the heading: "Goldwing Trivial Pursuit" . . . . :nerd:
 

Attachments

  • Like
Reactions: Hoopdc

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
If I have a new sealing washer on hand, I’ll use it. Otherwise, the lack of having a new washer does not stop the show. I have re-used sealing washers during oil changes on my bikes, but I do torque the oil drain bolts to spec. I have made a point of checking re-used sealing washers for leaks and i have not found even a little weeping.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
17,785 Posts
I just know this is a subject near and dear to all of us . . . .

Let's be honest now; how many of us actually replace the Crush Washer (Part Number 94109-14000) when changing the Engine/Transmission Oil and/or the Differential Oil?
I use new crush washers on everything I work on ... coolant, final drives, 12-case half bolts, forks, and when installing new brake and clutch fluid hydraulic parts.

In the mechanical world, not only can catastrophes occurs, but they really do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bayrec

·
IronMan
Joined
·
17,625 Posts
Have never had to change a "crush" washer you guys do the gorilla torque n over tighten them and there only good for 1 time !! I'm sure you "book guys " will say needs a new one everytime !!!!! I'll just do what "works" for me !!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,352 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Have never had to change a "crush" washer you guys do the gorilla torque n over tighten them and there only good for 1 time !! I'm sure you "book guys " will say needs a new one everytime !!!!! I'll just do what "works" for me !!
Yea sure! But what oil are you using?

>:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,760 Posts
I bought a bag of 10 from Hal after I bought my bike. Got a 2 cases 6 each of oil filters and used them all. I still have 6 crush washers left.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
468 Posts
87 motorcycles in 56 years of riding and I have never had a leak from a drain plug after service and I have NEVER used a new drain plug washer, ever and some have been used over and over again:grin2:

Sam:nerd:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,347 Posts
I only replace crush washers when there appears an indented ring from too many loosen/tighten cycles.
That never occurs when I change oil.
On friend's bikes, that occurs after some gorilla did a previous oil change.

However, changing coolant and dealing with the thin copper washer is a different kettle of fish than the aluminum oil drain plug washer.
Copper washers indent and deform very easily.
After changing coolant, I anneal the copper washer with a propane torch.
Then I re-use the copper washer.
 

·
IronMan
Joined
·
17,625 Posts
I swear by “castor oil”. Guaranteed to keep things “moving” ��??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
Now really . . . . why a new Sealing Washer? The old one looks perfectly fine and reusing it doesn't seem to invite any certain disaster...
I think the primary function of the crush washer is to prevent the ham fisted from stripping the threads in their expensive engines. I torque to spec and my washers never crush. :shrug:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
867 Posts
I just know this is a subject near and dear to all of us . . . .

Let's be honest now; how many of us actually replace the Crush Washer (Part Number 94109-14000) when changing the Engine/Transmission Oil and/or the Differential Oil?

The Service Manual (see below) does say; "Install the oil drain bolt with a new sealing washer and tighten it."

Now really . . . . why a new Sealing Washer? The old one looks perfectly fine and reusing it doesn't seem to invite any certain disaster.

So anyhow, I thought I'd see just how much "sealing" this Crush Washer does. It turns out that it actually does engage and function as a fairly well designed seal between the Bolt and the Case.

The attached picture tells a story. The old Crush Washer is on the left, a new Crush Washer is on the right. First notice how the old Crush Washer has grooves in it. This indicates that the Crush Washer has deformed ever so slightly to accommodate any irregularities in the surface of the Case and/or the flange of the Bolt. Of greater interest is that this Crush Washer actually does "crush". I have a handful of new Crush Washers and they all measure exactly 0.080" thick. The used Crush Washer shown here measures 0.074" thick. This represents (not counting the grooves on the used washer) a minimum crush of 0.006" This is actually fairly significant. Metals have elastic properties. While under compression a metal will exert a force in the direction opposite to that which is compressing it. The 0.006" difference tells me that the torque specified for tightening the Bolt exceeds the elastic limit of the metal the Crush Washer is comprised of. The good news is that when a new Crush Washer is used its elasticity helps to effectively seal the opening. The bad news is that once it's elastic limit has been exceeded per the torque specification its sealing capability has been seriously compromised if it is reused.

Based on personal experience, having reused these Crush Washers more often than I'd care to admit (or boast of) the risk one runs is probably not terribly great. On the other hand, Honda is correct, in as much as to minimize the possibility of any failures and or leaks or weepage, one probably should replace the Crush Washer.

You may now file this away under the heading: "Goldwing Trivial Pursuit" . . . . :nerd:
The one thing I CAN and DO is change my own oil. Cars and bikes. I use the same crush washer over and over and over and over and over................ NEVER had a leak. I realize never having had a leak could also be from not tightening too much, gorilla-ing it and other factors.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
466 Posts
Think about why it’s called a crush washer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,347 Posts
Think about why it’s called a crush washer.
Maybe that thin aluminum slug with a hole drilled in its centre should not be called a crush washer at all?
For me, a crush washer is the washer used on most spark plugs that indeed crushes when first tightened.
After the initial crushing, it can't be crushed any more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
380 Posts
I have about 5 left in my tool box. I change them about every 5th oil change. I've done this sequence for the past 39 years on all 5 Goldwings and other Hondas.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Largeandy

·
Registered
Joined
·
466 Posts
Maybe that thin aluminum slug with a hole drilled in its centre should not be called a crush washer at all?
For me, a crush washer is the washer used on most spark plugs that indeed crushes when first tightened.
After the initial crushing, it can't be crushed any more.
The crush washer is intended to plastically deform on first tightening to torque, and then it acts as a spring load on the drain bolt.

Obviously most of the time a used one does not impede sealing. But the OEM intent is that a new one, which has predictable elasticity compared to a used one, is preferred.

What do they cost? Not much.

How much trouble are they to change with the drain plug? None.

But if you’re putting on car tires, using WalMart oil and filters, disposing of your used oil in back of the barn, etc, you may disagree.

FWIW, the spark plug gasket is a gas seal.
The drain plug washer is a liquid seal. The conditions are quite different.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,965 Posts
I have changed oil/filter on "both" of my Goldwings. (2002/2010) many. many times.. (I'm a oil change fanatic) Everybody claims I waste money cause I change oil way too often (every 3,000 miles/or less if I'm going on a long trip) It's "feel good" thing for me! (I've changed oil @ the 1000 mile mark/cause I was going on a trip)..... Anyway's I have never replaced that washer, I just keep using it over/over again...and never a problem...
I read the owner's manual that claims every 8,000 miles....I could never let myself go that far in mileage, B4 replacement..Even stuff like anti freeze replacement, get's done way B4 the "good book" suggests......

When I pay $28,000 for a vehicle (even more now cause it's now a trike) I take very good care of it....Wash after every ride/Total wax job every rain storm (in garage)/air checked in tires, and hug's every morning, just to let her know that I truly care..... Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Ronnie
PS: I guess it help now that I'm retired, and I'm beginning to get bored, cause I do now have all this extra time on my hands.....I had a heating/plumbing business, that was 24 hours a day/7 days a week... plus a full time 40 hours a week job.......
 
  • Like
Reactions: GWilly

·
Registered
Joined
·
466 Posts
I have changed oil/filter on "both" of my Goldwings. (2002/2010) many. many times.. (I'm a oil change fanatic) Everybody claims I waste money cause I change oil way too often (every 3,000 miles/or less if I'm going on a long trip) It's "feel good" thing for me! (I've changed oil @ the 1000 mile mark.
Old habits die hard. At the time of my first car and first motorcycle, there was sort of an expectation that the 1000 mile oil change was a good idea. And at the least, twice a year ... winter 10 or 20 weight, summer 30 or 40 weight. I still have one of the last old glass oil bottles with its screw on nozzle/funnel.

Oil and engine technology have come a long way. I remember when we started seeing multi-weight oils. We stocked both Kendall and Castrol in barrels.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bluehighways
1 - 20 of 45 Posts
Top