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It would appear CSC is having some major issues with drive shaft / rear end shaft failure on the newer trikes. The female splines in the rear end shaft [CSC part] and the male splines on the drive shaft [Honda part] are wearing excessively. Eventually the drive shaft will just spin in the rear end shaft.

My drive shaft almost failed two years ago on my 2008 CSC trike at 13,000 miles. Fortunately I caught it in time before it failed completely and left me stranded somewhere. Mine was an early trike kit [2008] with the new straight drive shaft. When mine failed I thought it might have been caused by using incorrect grease on the splines. Honda recommends using a moly base grease and at the time CSC was using regular grease. I’m convinced that was a contributing factor. I understand CSC now recommends moly grease.

The other thing I found by accident when I attended Wing Ding in 2010 was that CSC changed the drive shaft tension spring. My drive shaft had a 4” coiled spring at the rear where the Honda shaft mates with the CSC rear end shaft. Th revised design is a solid two piece collar with a shorter and stiffer spring. I was able to obtain the revised collar / spring design from my dealer and installed it last year. I was told by CSC at Wing Ding that this was the fix for the drive shaft spline failures.

It seems this may in fact not be the case after all. A fellow GWRRA member who bought a 2010 Goldwing / CSC trike last year just lost his drive shaft. His trike has 7000 miles on it. The drive shaft is just spinning in the CSC rear end shaft. All the splines have been destroyed. He was stranded about five miles from home when this happen. I spoke to our Honda / CSC dealer [we use the same one] and was informed that they had just repaired another CSC trike with the same issue. It also has low mileage. Looks like CSC has a problem and or we the owners of these newer trikes do.

My question is what is CSC going to do about this problem. Some of you may recall that it took Motortrike five years or so to finally admit that they had a design flaw in their early GL1800 trike kits. Those earlier trikes were snapping drive shafts left and right. I can only hope it does not take CSC that long to fix this drive shaft issue.

For those of you who have the older CSC trike with the angled drive shaft design, and are thinking of spending $1800 for the retrofit kit to change it to the new straight drive shaft design, you may want to think about it a bit more. I live in northern New England and to have three trikes fail in this small area tells me there is a problem.
 

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Thanks for the report NH Rider. We've been trying to get the word out but we still have a forum member or two who says the breakdowns are of small concern; probably because they don't own a trike with a 1st or 2nd Gen. CSC drive-line. It's sad but some folks don't get bothered with things that don't personally affect them.

CSC is aware that their 2nd Gen. modification has not worked for everyone. We don't have the figures concerning the number of 2nd. Gen. failures, but CSC does, and we can fairly be assured that they aren't going to be releasing that information anytime soon. I can report to you that several have come on this board and reported the initial 2nd Gen. breakdown,however, but I can't remember an incident where a board member who had the modification reported the breakdown.

We know that there have been breakdown, even after the 2nd Gen mod but those reports have come from installers and dealers. We can probably assume that the numbers are small, when considering the number of CSC trikes sold. I would think, however, it doesn't make one feel any safer.

I do know that several installers have made suggestions to CSC on how to fix the redundant issue but if I had to guess, I'd say money is the issue. Only my guess. CSC has really gotten themselves in a pickel lately. This is their second straight driveline design that is prone to breakdown. They continue to sell trikes, however. I actually believe if a potential buyer knew what you now know; no one would take a chance on a new CSC purchase. Not at what these things cost. Most all installers are aware of this issue. CSC informed them last fall and it was expected that the installers would contact their buyers and alert them of the potential issue. You got your notice, didn't you? You probably did not as no one has come on this forum and reported receiving such a notice or have showed us a copy of the warning notice.

Aren't you glad your friend wasn't riding on a superslab, say about 75 mph , in front of a heavily loaded 18 wheeler, when the splines on his shaft decided to shear? It could have been nasty!

Thanks for your report!

Ride safe,

Wayne
 

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Wasaw,
My first thought when I read that CSC is completely redesigning their trike for the 2012 is that is their answer to the drive line problem. I'll be curious to see the new design and how it affects the drive line.
BTW, I found a used Honda yoke assembly and i have sent it to Rob Wynne for his U joint modification. The more I study it, the more I believe that this is an answer to the early angled drive line problem.
 

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in line drive

I was told when I was at the factory in april 2010 that my kit would include a new change to the drive line that was not available prior to that date? what it was I do not know, however at 25k check up I was told it is perfect? Am I lucky or did they change something last year to address the problem,,,,wayne? any thoughts that might make peeps feel more secure?

P.S.
2010 WING CSC may not have a 2010 KIT in it depending when the dealer purchased the unit from CSC
 

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Wasaw,
........................BTW, I found a used Honda yoke assembly and i have sent it to Rob Wynne for his U joint modification. The more I study it, the more I believe that this is an answer to the early angled drive line problem.

Bill, I'm glad to hear that you're positioning yourself for a long term fix of your 1st Gen. shaft. I personally believe that once you're able to keep that U-joint lubed, it will give you many, many smiles on the road. I know that you have taken care of your rzeppa joint but for those reading this thread, it's also important to give it preventive maintaince also.

Didn't the gentleman say in his write-up that he needed "X" amount of joints before he would start a new batch? Did he give you an ETA on the modification? Can't wait till you give us a report.

For the guys who can't come up with an old joint, they might could wait till cold weather, when they might not ride, and take their's off and send it in. You know Bill, the price doesn't seem all that bad if you're broke down and can't get a replacement joint. I think you are a WISE MAN.

Ride safe,

Wayne
 

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Not to hijack this thread I have a 1st gen CSC. I have serviced the shaft greased with moly and packed the back joint. My question is when I took it apart there was silicone in there does it need to be siliconed back ?
 

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What I have been told to do is put a bead of silicone round the edge of the rzeppa joint and the bolts.
 

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wasaw
"CSC informed them last fall and it was expected that the installers would contact their buyers and alert them of the potential issue. You got your notice, didn't you?"

Did not get one either but did have installer order the upgrade collar and spring (ordered last month), on my dime, as CSC would not upgrade under warranty. Its not real expensive but hate to pay for their trial and error process.
I took it in to have him check it and it appears to be ok. Only have about 9700 miles as a trike.


 

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The more I study it, the more I believe that this is an answer to the early angled drive line problem.
NOT...

The problem is the yoke is off a 1500 and is not the same as the 1800.
If you can find an 1800 drive shaft and remove the front yoke, put that on to the rear part of the 1500 and solve 95% of the vibration problem. That is if that guy can retro the u-joint as he says he can, remember he has not delt with the 1800. Right now there is 0.200" meat on that yoke in the thinnest point, he has to take out about 0.150" for the new u-joint devided by 2 means 0.125" meat left.
That's NOT enough......
Sorry to bust your bubble.

Ken L.
 

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Found this on another board this morning.Unfortunately you have to subscribe to log in.

Re: More on CSC trike driveshaft
« Reply #2 on: Yesterday at 08:04:22 PM » I have finally read enough to comment on the CSC driveshaft situation. I have a 2008 GW-CSC, straight shaft set up. I keep getting responses from Dwight Harrington (Manager at CSC), that I am the only one that has had this kind of problem. Here is my experience: 27,000 +/-, bike won't move from stop light - splines shot - towed home. CSC paid for repair. Months later at Niehaus Appreciation Days, CSC Rep Tony said that the engineers had told him something about a bad batch of steel but all should be good now. 37,500 +/-, horrific noise from rear by the time we get to Wing Ding in Iowa. Talked to CSC Rep Tony at Wing Ding, told him my problems and asked if he could help me find a shop to work on my Trike. He gave me a plastic bag with the two piece collar a heavy duty spring and said that he was told to give these to anyone that had a driveshaft problem. Garvis Honda in Iowa (CSC Dealer) got us right in and ordered parts from CSC. We got a rental car, paid CSC to overnight a new driveshaft, etc. and picked up the bike the next day. Most of the noise was gone but I could hear what I thought might be a bearing noise, but the service manager and mechanic thought it was coming from the alternator. We cancelled our trip around Lake Superior and drove the 280 miles home, dropped the escapade trailer, and headed the 200 miles to Niehaus Cycle sales where I had purchased the bike and trike kit. Their mechanic finally heard the noise and after flushing the rearend oils, kept getting silver colored fluid. The next week the entire rear unit was crated up and shipped to CSC. They fixed at their cost, but it was down most of July. 49,000 miles the trike couldn't move from a stop light in Florida. Had to get a wrecker and go to Trikes by Design (aka Trikes by Tony) They confirmed that the splines were shot again. This was just 10 days past my 3 year warrant, but CSC sent the parts and paid for the repair. Just days before this I had again talked to CSC Rep Tony at Bike Week and he still acted like I was the only one having these problems. Presently I carry any extra driveshaft in our trailer. Dwight has told me that there are no plans to change this arrangement on the 2012. I wonder how many of us that have had this problem there really are out there. I know that CSC has the records and need to address the problem.
 

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Thanks for the information BigMick.

CSC said that I had to purchase the spring and collar. Wonder if they are treating people differently:shrug: Which I told my installer to go ahead and get.
 

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BigMick, we've all got to pity the trike owner who authored the article. This is one more example of the 2nd Gen. driveline modification not working for all. The owner broke down three times; all rear driveline issues. Personally, I'm glad he wasn't hurt during the breakdowns.

What does one do when he finds himself with a “lemon”? I'm only using the term for lack of a better one but the owner experienced three breakdowns due to driveline issues. Does one throw a match to it or run it off a cliff? Can you morally sell it to an unsuspecting buyer? Do you trade it in to a dealer without divulging prior mechanical issues, or tell it all and take the big hit?

I know what I’d have to do. It would hurt, but I’d have to do it anyway.


Ride safe,

Wayne
 

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Thanks for the information BigMick.

CSC said that I had to purchase the spring and collar. Wonder if they are treating people differently:shrug: Which I told my installer to go ahead and get.
cmore, from what we've read on this board, CSC does and is treating people differently. Remember a post back a few months ago (3-17-11) http://gl1800riders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275256, post #29, board member "Blondie" (who rides an '08 2nd Gen driveline CSC), related the following to us:

Before I proceed with this post, I would like to THANK WingWing for being an absolute Angel and running almost 185 miles to pick up the parts for me, Will (from CSC) for going above and beyond to get my drive shaft fixed & back on the road over night and Larry (from Trikes by Design) for supplying me with the parts at no charge.


My Drive Shaft went out last week - right in the middle of bike week :-(
BUT if it had to go out, it couldn't have happened at a more opportune time.
We had *just* pulled out from the CSC trailer. I pulled out onto the street which of course since it was bike week was full of traffic!!
Right in between the two lanes I suddenly heard the most G-d awful noise and that's as far as I got.
The bike was now sitting in traffic like a lame duck :eek:4:
The guys from CSC heard what happened (yes, it was that loud) and came running as they thought I was in an accident.
We pushed the bike into a parking lot near the CSC trailer.
Both Will (from CSC) and WingWing checked the bike and Will (from CSC) immediately started making phone calls.

I would like to send out Kudo's to CSC!!!
They gave me their DEMO bike from the show at NO charge (even if it was a Harley! LoL).
Will then called Larry (from Trikes by Design) and made sure he had the parts to fix it. The parts were also NO charge!!
Will kept the bike over night since I had the Harley and fixed it the next morning at NO charge!!!

Again, I want to THANK WingWing for being an absolute Angel and running almost 185 miles to pick up the parts for me,
Will (from CSC) for going above and beyond to get my bike fixed & back on the road over night and
Larry (from Trikes by Design) for supplying me with the parts at no charge.

:biker:
.
cmore, this is what you call GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE. The problem is that all you 2nd gen. owners won't breakdown in front of a CSC rally tent. That means that you'll pay the piper (CSC) for your replacement parts and somebody else for the labor.

Do you think this bothers me? You bet it does. I have several friends who own 2nd Gen. CSC's and I hate to see them get hosed by CSC. Only CSC has the data and know how many of their prone-to-fail drivelines have broke. Like I've stated before, "they ain't telling".

Ride safe,

Wayne
 

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It would be enlightening to know what the % of issues are. I would guess they are real low, but who knows.
 

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For the past 4 - 5 years, my Mantra was that once the GL 1800 started getting "Heavy" for me,I would sell it and get a new GL 1800 trike or equivalent, to continue my riding.

I have since stepped back and changed my mind about purchasing a "trike" altogether.

When the "Day" comes that I am required by good sense, to step down from the heavy 2 wheeler, I will either down size to a more fitting 2 wheeler or just drop out of the game all together.

I can't see plopping down $35K for a new rig, and just buying into a future problem. Warranty repair, Good Service or not, I do not want to risk time consuming repairs and warranty issues, especially since I live in the sticks. Not to mention possible injury or catastrophe!

Another nagging issue for me, is will the Honda Dealer honor warranty issues on the Bike, since it has been "triked"? I am not comfortable with the 50 - 50 risk.

I have first hand knowledge of several costly failures with the "Trikes" as well as what has been reported on the Internet. I don't like what I am hearing. Sure the Trike is a fun machine and a great alternative to 2 wheeling, but at what cost? What Risk? What inconvenience?

I further, do not think that the failures are unique to CSC or any other brand. When I go to the shows and chat with the "Reps", seems all I hear about, is the "New and Improved version". Why is that?

I feel that there is no longer a "Trike" in my future, as I can not take the gamble, on will it be economical, safe and efficient for me. Hate to miss out on my options, but sometimes one has to know when to "Hold them or Fold them".

Life goes on and one has got to be smart about choices, unless one has enough money and time to make something work, when it is not!

Good Luck to all whom are experiencing problems, past, present and future.

Bulldog
 

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For the past 4 - 5 years, my Mantra was that once the GL 1800 started getting "Heavy" for me,I would sell it and get a new GL 1800 trike or equivalent, to continue my riding.

I have since stepped back and changed my mind about purchasing a "trike" altogether.

When the "Day" comes that I am required by good sense, to step down from the heavy 2 wheeler, I will either down size to a more fitting 2 wheeler or just drop out of the game all together.

I can't see plopping down $35K for a new rig, and just buying into a future problem. Warranty repair, Good Service or not, I do not want to risk time consuming repairs and warranty issues, especially since I live in the sticks. Not to mention possible injury or catastrophe!

Another nagging issue for me, is will the Honda Dealer honor warranty issues on the Bike, since it has been "triked"? I am not comfortable with the 50 - 50 risk.

I have first hand knowledge of several costly failures with the "Trikes" as well as what has been reported on the Internet. I don't like what I am hearing. Sure the Trike is a fun machine and a great alternative to 2 wheeling, but at what cost? What Risk? What inconvenience?

I further, do not think that the failures are unique to CSC or any other brand. When I go to the shows and chat with the "Reps", seems all I hear about, is the "New and Improved version". Why is that?

I feel that there is no longer a "Trike" in my future, as I can not take the gamble, on will it be economical, safe and efficient for me. Hate to miss out on my options, but sometimes one has to know when to "Hold them or Fold them".

Life goes on and one has got to be smart about choices, unless one has enough money and time to make something work, when it is not!

Good Luck to all whom are experiencing problems, past, present and future.

Bulldog
But I was sooooo looking forward to "schooling" you when you got your trike. :eek:4::thumbup: Ride safe regardless of what you ride and continue to enjoy for as long as you can. I know I do.:thumbup:
 

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For the past 4 - 5 years, my Mantra was that once the GL 1800 started getting "Heavy" for me,I would sell it and get a new GL 1800 trike or equivalent, to continue my riding.

I have since stepped back and changed my mind about purchasing a "trike" altogether.

When the "Day" comes that I am required by good sense, to step down from the heavy 2 wheeler, I will either down size to a more fitting 2 wheeler or just drop out of the game all together.

I can't see plopping down $35K for a new rig, and just buying into a future problem. Warranty repair, Good Service or not, I do not want to risk time consuming repairs and warranty issues, especially since I live in the sticks. Not to mention possible injury or catastrophe!

Another nagging issue for me, is will the Honda Dealer honor warranty issues on the Bike, since it has been "triked"? I am not comfortable with the 50 - 50 risk.

I have first hand knowledge of several costly failures with the "Trikes" as well as what has been reported on the Internet. I don't like what I am hearing. Sure the Trike is a fun machine and a great alternative to 2 wheeling, but at what cost? What Risk? What inconvenience?

I further, do not think that the failures are unique to CSC or any other brand. When I go to the shows and chat with the "Reps", seems all I hear about, is the "New and Improved version". Why is that?

I feel that there is no longer a "Trike" in my future, as I can not take the gamble, on will it be economical, safe and efficient for me. Hate to miss out on my options, but sometimes one has to know when to "Hold them or Fold them".

Life goes on and one has got to be smart about choices, unless one has enough money and time to make something work, when it is not!

Good Luck to all whom are experiencing problems, past, present and future.

Bulldog
I had the same concern when I converted by 06 wing with the Champion kit. The warranty issue was my deciding factor when I went to the Harley trike. Say what you want about the Harley, but the trike is a fine machine, well balanced and tuned. And the Harley dealerships network is a well oiled machine.

Many Honda dealers will not touch a trike and Honda certainly will void the warranty. Most dealers that try to avoid the warranty issue by not being up front with Honda, in my opinion, have integrity issues with their OEM providers.

I think Harley will continue to refine the trike and build on its current success. I too had to face the issue of not riding and Harley ended up being my answer, as well an the answer for so many more. It handles so well, and is a fantastic ride. I know, as I have had two Honda trikes, and now the Harley.
 

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For the past 4 - 5 years, my Mantra was that once the GL 1800 started getting "Heavy" for me,I would sell it and get a new GL 1800 trike or equivalent, to continue my riding.

I have since stepped back and changed my mind about purchasing a "trike" altogether.

When the "Day" comes that I am required by good sense, to step down from the heavy 2 wheeler, I will either down size to a more fitting 2 wheeler or just drop out of the game all together.

I can't see plopping down $35K for a new rig, and just buying into a future problem. Warranty repair, Good Service or not, I do not want to risk time consuming repairs and warranty issues, especially since I live in the sticks. Not to mention possible injury or catastrophe!

Another nagging issue for me, is will the Honda Dealer honor warranty issues on the Bike, since it has been "triked"? I am not comfortable with the 50 - 50 risk.

I have first hand knowledge of several costly failures with the "Trikes" as well as what has been reported on the Internet. I don't like what I am hearing. Sure the Trike is a fun machine and a great alternative to 2 wheeling, but at what cost? What Risk? What inconvenience?

I further, do not think that the failures are unique to CSC or any other brand. When I go to the shows and chat with the "Reps", seems all I hear about, is the "New and Improved version". Why is that?

I feel that there is no longer a "Trike" in my future, as I can not take the gamble, on will it be economical, safe and efficient for me. Hate to miss out on my options, but sometimes one has to know when to "Hold them or Fold them".

Life goes on and one has got to be smart about choices, unless one has enough money and time to make something work, when it is not!

Good Luck to all whom are experiencing problems, past, present and future.

Bulldog

Any major decision made based upon a computer ONLINE FORUM is ill advised, remember the only folks who tend to post on these sites are those with one of 2 things going on,,,they have a problem with their trike or at least they think it, or two, they have an ax to GRIND, in either case the number of persons with actual PROBLEMS is much smaller than those that have problems with their 2 wheel counter parts, PEEPS DONT POST UNLESS THEY HAVE A PROBLEM,,,Note there is no I LOVE MY TRIKE forum, only TECH TALK/I HATE MY TRIKE,,,,think twice and act once! Either way your decision will not put any of the Outstanding Trike Mfg's out of business in the near future, BOL and RIDE SAFE! JMHO
 

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... changed my mind
+1 ... and thank you for a most candid (and guaranteed unpopular) post.
I'll bet you thought long and hard before pressing the enter key on this one.

Taking an extremely well engineered machine and cutting in half,
then bolting on someones backyard notion of "this should work.."
(details to be worked out later) never did seem like a good idea to me.

... but, the sanity side of that is, "to each his own".

When my "time" comes,
I'll ride something engineered from the factory with three wheels.
.. unless segway comes out with a self balancing bike before then...

Dennis
 

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Bulldog I went through some of the same feelings. Not sorry I decided to trike. Not many miles by almost 3 years and have not had any trike issues. Could have one tomorrow, but life is a gamble anyway. The warranty is and issue for only the drive train and frame. Which are probably the most expensive parts but have had 2 warrenty problems that were covered by Honda (had the 4 yr extended warranty). Some dealers won't work on a trike tho. The 2 dealers who are closest to me will work on them and one them doesn't sell trikes. The ONLY time I miss a 2 wheeler is when I want to carve the corners. Can still do it on the trike but it is a lot more tiring to push it through the corners.
 
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