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Discussion Starter #1
Just a little info since the CSC drive shaft has become a bit of topic.I have an 05 wing with an 07 CSC kit.I have put about 21000 miles on it.I have the old style shaft with the large rubber ring on the rear of the shaft.I began to feel a slight shuttering or vibration when slowing down or down shifting.Decided to take shaft off and look it over.First thing I noticed was big cracks in rubber ring.CSC says this is normal and don't be alarmed.Next thing was that both ends of shaft were completely dry of grease.Cleaned up everything and throughly greased both ends.Put everything back together and went for a test.Could immediately tell a difference.All vibration was gone and trike was quieter.So,in my opinion I guess it helps to keep your shaft greased...Just a little info,be safe and have a nice day...:wrong:
 

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Are you sure you have the older design driveline system? The older version is angled and has two universal joints, one in the front and one in the rear of the driveshaft. The new version has a straight driveshaft with only one universal in the front [engine output side]. This is a Honda driveshaft [same as 2 wheeler], and at the rear it goes into a shorter shaft [CSC part] that bolts to or rather through the fiber washer / spacer you spoke of.

If you have the newer design and it was dry of grease when you pulled it I would suggest you pull it again and check for any play in the mating joint of the two shafts. That is where the problem is.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
CSC Driveshaft

First thanks for the reply..When I pulled the shaft and found the cracks in the rubber ring I called CSC and He,I forget the gentlemans name,told me that I have one of the older designs and the cracks would not hurt it.So thats all I have to go on.After I removed the 6 bolts from the rear I simply just pulled back on the shaft cause its spring loaded on the rear and it came out.The rear of the shaft has a spline joint also and it had no grease at all.The front of the shaft just simply slid over the spline that comes out of the transmission.I pulled the yoke off and checked the u-joint it did not have any play and was in good shape.The yoke and splines on the front were also very dry.I could really tell a difference on how smooth and quiet it got after I put it back together..
 

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3wheels does your drive shaft look like this if it does then it is the 1500
yoke

 

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Discussion Starter #5
Shaft

No,my shaft does not look like this on the rear.It has the spring but does not have the rear u-joint or yoke.
 

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3Wheels, It's very important you keep these splined shafts well lubed. Next time you check it, clean eveything thoroughly and apply a moly paste rather than normal grease. Clean both the male and female ends of each joint thoroughly with brake cleaner or some type of solvent before using the moly for the first time.

These shafts are having problems when not properly maintained. You may want to invest in installing the CSC collar which they put on newer builds. It's about $40 and assist in eliminating the stripped splines you may be reading about. If you can lube your own shaft you can easily add the collar. Money well spent but nothing beats the frequent use of moly.

Cheers...
 

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hey guy's, must say, you made me all a bit nervus about the CSC drive shaft, i have a end 2005 , build beginning 2006 CSC trike, so i "think" first generation......., 20.000MILES
Today i pulled off the compleet drive shaft, and thake a look @ all the items you all discussed, it was all nice and greasy, delkin disk was like new, changed the back oil (don't know all the names of the items like you call them), repezza and u-joint was also ok, cleaned everything up, put some new grease, also the 8 nipples (changed them also all) and now i am shore it's ok........:p
Don't need to be nervus now that i chequed it .......;)
But thanks for the "warning" ...:thumbup:
Stefan from Belgium
 

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Stefan,
That's why this board is so important. I ride a CSC conversion with the older angled drive. I personally think that an "ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure". Keep your trike maintained, like you have done.
It appears that the CSC drive line problem is not as prevalent as some people believe. But you ignore the possibility at your own peril. The failures that I have read of have involved an improperly greased Rzeppa joint (big one at the back) or the Honda yoke assembly. I have bought a modified yoke assembly that not allows the U-joint to be greased, but the modification also allows the U-joint to be replaced in case of failure.
The biggest problem that I foresee is the lack of parts from Honda. It is almost impossible to find a Honda yoke assembly, so if anyone is really concerned about that yoke assembly failing they need to be proactive and start searching for one now.
Just my .02 worth.
 

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Stefan and Bill, a board member (BigMick) announced this morning that our board sponsor, "Drive Line Parts" has begun to ship new 1500/Valkyrie yokes. It was confirmed with some post over on the Valkyrie Forum http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,31315.0.html

Don't suspect you'll be buying a new one Bill, with the modified serviceable one coming your way soon.

8-4-2011 Now, board member team5150 tells us that HDI is now out of them. Has every GL500/Valkyrie and 1st Gen CSC owner ordered one?

Ride safe guys,

Wayne
 

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Hey Wayne, can you try to explane what a "yokes" is ??

Bill, maintainens is a part off the hobby, i like it to, once in a while i will take a look @ the drive shaft..:thumbup:
the board here is verry good to keep us all informed, i agree ...:yes1:
 

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U-Joint

Wing67 here's a link to a site that shows a u-joint disassembly - hopefully that will answer your question..

(This link shows automotive u-joints that can be disassembled....the stock Honda u-joints do not have snap rings and cannot be disassembled...)

http://dodgeram.org/tech/repair/U_joint/repair.htm
 

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Thanks Charlie!

Stefan, if I may add just two thoughts to what Charley has provided? The GL1500/Valkyrie yoke or UNIVERSAL JOINT is different than the universal joint shown in the photos in the above link. The yoke, or u-joint on your wife's '05 CSC driveshaft does not have retainer snap ring clips at the end of the cups. Honda chose to make the unit unserviceable and unreplaceable, except as a complete unit, by having the ends of the cup gussetted. The only way the cups can be removed is with dynamite or a mill machine. Also note the zerk fitting on the repacement u-joint in the link photos. Honda chose not to add a zerk (grease) fitting, preventing its owners from keeping the u-joint lubricated. It would have cost Honda less than ten cents per fitting, on its initial cost. Any idea what a replacement GL1500 yoke cost?

Please understand Stefan, when Honda designed and engineered that driveshaft, the specs were drawn up for it to be used on a motorcycle, NOT A TRIKE. It was California Side Car who made the decision to use a motorcycle driveshaft, in their trike kit, where it was NEVER intended. I mention this for a reason. The trike has a larger differential, and two larger tires and wheels. Everything is heavier and larger. This puts a greater demand on the driveshaft. Why wouldn't one expect it to fail? It's being asked to do a job for what is wasn't intended. CSC not only chose to use a motorcycle designed and engineered driveshaft on their 1st Gen. driveshaft, they turned around and used a Honda designed and engineered driveshaft for the front part of their 2nd Gen. driveline. It is that exact part on the 2nd Gen. driveshaft where the female splined gears are shearing.

Lastly, California Side Car has experienced failures in two of their driveline design and the failures occur on Honda designed and engineered shafts, which were intended for two-wheel motorcycles.

Ride safe Stefan (you too Charlie),

Wayne
 

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Discussion Starter #13
csc shaft

This makes complete and total since ! My 05 has an UN-replacable U-joint on the front yoke..I have not had any problems so far.I just finished using the Honda moly paste on both ends of the shaft and it was completly dry but not worn on either end.So if my luck runs out and I have to replace the front U-joint,I will have to replace the whole yoke...is this right ??
 

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Thanks Charlie!

Stefan, if I may add just two thoughts to what Charley has provided? The GL1500/Valkyrie yoke or UNIVERSAL JOINT is different than the universal joint shown in the photos in the above link. The yoke, or u-joint on your wife's '05 CSC driveshaft does not have retainer snap ring clips at the end of the cups. Honda chose to make the unit unserviceable and unreplaceable, except as a complete unit, by having the ends of the cup gussetted. The only way the cups can be removed is with dynamite or a mill machine. Also note the zerk fitting on the repacement u-joint in the link photos. Honda chose not to add a zerk (greese) fitting, preventing its owners from keeping the u-joint lubricated. It would have cost Honda less than ten cents per fitting, on its initial cost. Any idea what a replacement GL1500 yoke cost?

Please understand Stefan, when Honda designed and engineered that driveshaft, the specs were drawn up for it to be used on a motorcycle, NOT A TRIKE. It was California Side Car who made the decision to use a motorcycle driveshaft, in their trike kit, where it was NEVER intended. I mention this for a reason. The trike has a larger differential, and two larger tires and wheels. Everything is heavier and larger. This puts a greater demand on the driveshaft. Why wouldn't one expect it to fail? It's being asked to do a job for what is wasn't intended. CSC not only chose to use a motorcycle designed and engineered driveshaft on their 1st Gen. driveshaft, they turned around and used a Honda designed and engineered driveshaft for the front part of their 2nd Gen. driveline. It is that exact part on the 2nd Gen. driveshaft where the female splined gears are shearing.

Lastly, California Side Car has experienced failures in two of their driveline design and the failures occur on Honda designed and engineered shafts, which were intended for two-wheel motorcycles.

Ride safe Stefan (you too Charlie),

Wayne
Using this logic, much the same can be said for the Honda output shaft, clutch, transmission gearing etc.
 

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Hello All,
I haven't posted for awhile; but this topic caught my eye. I have a few thoughts on this matter:
1. I find it amazing that one of the big selling points used by certain trikes vs. other trikes is-"USES STOCK SHAFT". Some designs locate it in its original position, while others relocate it.
2. This is not the first driveshaft problem. I believe there was a rash of broken ones with the original Motor Trike design.
3. No matter how big or small the real number of owners affected are, if you have the problem it is a BIG deal. What is important is how is the company, in this case CSC, responding to its customers.
It is forums like this one that keep everyone in the loop since our small numbers don't get us a "big brother". Even though a catastrophic failure out on the road could make us a statistic. Then the only question then that would be asked is: Were helmets being worn?
Hope everyone continues to ride safe.:thumbup:
Mike
 

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Using this logic, much the same can be said for the Honda output shaft, clutch, transmission gearing etc.
1. I find it amazing that one of the big selling points used by certain trikes vs. other trikes is-"USES STOCK SHAFT". Some designs locate it in its original position, while others relocate it.
2. This is not the first driveshaft problem. I believe there was a rash of broken ones with the original Motor Trike design.
Personally I (unqualified newbie, granted) agree with SneakySnake. It's hard to see how the Honda shaft wouldn't have a safety margin adequate to do the job, unless it ran up against the problems listed below. It moves overloaded bikes with two maybe big people pulling a loaded trailer, up mountains, and there haven't been a lot of reports of failures.

It seems logical to me that the problem is design, either using the Honda parts in a geometry that forces them to move in ways they weren't intended to move or be attached to in ways they weren't intended to be attached to. Or poor assembly, or poor maintenance. Or some combination of the above.

The message from the OP was that his splines were dry, and that people should be sure everything is properly greased. When I built my trike I took care to be sure the splines were well lathered up with Honda moly grease designed for the shaft. A possible flaw of my trike's design is that you basically have to pull the trike apart to re-up that. But since the splines are not sliding up and back it may not be necessary. That's a subtle advantage an IRS trike has over a solid axle. It moves the sliding part from the Honda driveshaft to trike specific joints which can relatively easily be adequately designed and maintained.

Questions: Are driveshaft problems more frequent with solid axle trikes? Angled driveshafts versus straight driveshafts? Do the problems occur where Honda parts join to trike manufacturer parts? All that would tend to indicate this is a matter of design and maintenance.
 

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Using this logic, much the same can be said for the Honda output shaft, clutch, transmission gearing etc.
Sneaky Snake, we're talking about two differently designed driveline systems here. I'm only pointing out that the CSC failures are occurring in the same area of the driveline, the HONDA designed and engineered driveshaft. Remember, we're talking about two different systems: the 1st Gen. which used the GL1500/Valkyrie yoke (which dries up for lack of lubrication) and the 2nd Gen. system which fails due to the HONDA designed and engineered front shafts female splined gears shearing. Two different systems, two distinct failures. But, the common denominator is that it's a HONDA drive shaft that's failing. However, you can't fault HONDA. They didn't intend for those shafts to be used on a trike.

It was explained to me the other day that every mechanical design has a weakness, be it intentional or inherent. If this is true, then the drive systems, in these two instances, are the weak links.


Hello All, I haven't posted for awhile;
but this topic caught my eye. I have a few thoughts on this matter:
1. I find it amazing that one of the big selling points used by certain trikes vs. other trikes is-"USES STOCK SHAFT". Some designs locate it in its original position, while others relocate it.
Welcome back Mike. Maybe you’ve hit on a good thought. Could it be that CSC does not have a straight shaft system? Could their off-angle shaft be the REAL issue? I don’t know.
2. This is not the first driveshaft problem. I believe there was a rash of broken ones with the original Motor Trike design.
You’re correct Mike, M-T got a batch of bad U-joints but they stepped up to the plate and fixed it, quickly. I believe they should have caught the problem during their testing before the release, but they did not. What I’m pointing out is that CSC just continues to modify, AT THE OWNERS EXPENSE.
3. No matter how big or small the real number of owners affected are, if you have the problem it is a BIG deal. What is important is how is the company, in this case CSC, responding to its customers.
Mike, from what I’ve learned, they pass the expense to their trike owners, unless the breakdown occurs in front of a CSC sales tent, at a rally.
It is forums like this one that keep everyone in the loop since our small numbers don't get us a "big brother". Even though a catastrophic failure out on the road could make us a statistic.
That’s what we’re trying to do Mike; get the word out.
Then the only question then that would be asked is: Were helmets being worn?
Hope everyone continues to ride safe.
Mike
Ride safe,

Wayne
 

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Wasaw. That is my point. Neither were the parts I mentioned in my reply intended for use on a trike but they do not fail. I cannot help but believe it is a CSC issue be it an engineering fault or whatever. The DFT runs now and has always ran the Honda drive shaft. I researched them thoroughly before buying and never found and have not heard of one that the Honda driveshaft failed. If the driveshafts were not up to the task they would fail on all trikes using them, not one particular brand.

On another note, I tried to modify a Honda driveshaft once to fit my 1500. All I needed was it cut to length and a keyway cut in one end. It was too hard to cut the key way. The other shaft however, was very machinable. The machine work on it was so easy it made me wonder if it was hardened at all. From my experience with this I find it hard to believe that the Honda shaft is not up to the task if these other shafts of obviously less quality are.
 

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Wasaw. That is my point. Neither were the parts I mentioned in my reply intended for use on a trike but they do not fail. I cannot help but believe it is a CSC issue be it an engineering fault or whatever. .......................
Double S, we're in complete agreement with each other. If you read my post in its entirety, you'll see that Tryker and I are in agreement, also. I have been saying all along that it's not HONDA's fault for the failures. It's the way that CSC is using the HONDA driveshafts.

Remember, they used the GL1500/Valkyrie yoke on the 1st Gen. design. Wouldn't you think that CSC would have given some consideration to the fact that the GL1500 was not as powerful as the GL1800? Why would one think that HONDA went away from the GL1500 driveshaft when they upped the engine output for the GL1800? I would venture to offer that possibly some lab test showed it might not take the torque and power, over the long haul. I personally don't know the answer, but the three of us do agree that it is the responsibility of the trike manufacturer to engineer a safe and reliable product.

As I mentioned on my reply; Mike touched on it earlier, and Gary, err Tryker responded also. It very well might in the how CSC chose to place, or use the shaft. Remember, most all trike kits use a straight, in-line driveshaft. CSC did not do this in the Gen. 1, and did not completely achieve the feat in their Gen. 2 configuration. Both systems are off-line drivelines, one more than the other.

Ride safe,

Wayne
 

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There are people here who know more about this more than I do. I know that Hannigan uses the Honda drive shaft in a straight configuration. Don't know if the do anything to it, or not. DFT also uses the Honda shaft in a straight configuration. I'm sure Charlie Sheldon can speak to this. I don't remember reading about any shaft failures in either of these two trike designs. The Roadsmith has a slightly angled driveshaft. They do NOT use the Honda unit. They use an automotive replacement.
Sorry to read that CSC is stiffing their customers for this one:wrong:. I know all to well what that's like. I had that experience with my first trike(not a CSC). So did the dealer that came to my rescue. Does anyone know if their new design addresses this issue?
Mike
 
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