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You'd better take care of that Austone. I don't believe they're available anymore. I've been using them on my Road Stars (as they were the only ct's that would fit), for the last 150,000 miles. I usually get 25,000 miles on them.
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When I heard that they were disappearing, I ordered another one of them. Universal Tire had 12 left.
So I'm good for another 50,000 miles.
And yes, it's stored in a cool dark place, so it should be fine when I need it.
 

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Have we all forgotten that the friction between two surfaces is not dependent on the contact area? It is dependent on the coefficient of friction and the force applied. Of course that no longer applies when the materials involved cannot handle the shear forces exerted.
Hmm, I woulda thought it's dependent on both the contact area AND friction & force applied. Does it have to be one or the other?
 

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QfYou cannot change the laws of physics! The contact area is not in the formula.
Soo why do drag race cars had wide racing slicks, instead of skinny tires, as on the front?
 

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Discussion Starter #65
IMHO a well written article on the subject.

I don't think it is likely to change anyone's position on the use of CT's (or not), but I think it is a good read.
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I've got over 250,000 miles on the dark side, and ride the dragon at least three times a year with friends. I've never had any issues with a dark side tire.
 

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Have we all forgotten that the friction between two surfaces is not dependent on the contact area? It is dependent on the coefficient of friction and the force applied. Of course that no longer applies when the materials involved cannot handle the shear forces exerted.
Yes, that's true for pure friction but tires are using an impure friction where it's not just sliding grippiness, it's also some deformation of the tire and mechanical locking up with the irregularities in the road surface. Those impurities love them some surface area.
 

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Drag racing tires, as network guy pointed out, is an issue of dynamic strength. Also bear in mind there are tradeoffs occurring. Wider tire, less psi force applied to the road surface. However you also have a larger surface area for the mu forces applied (coefficient of friction). The gain in friction more than offsets the lower psi force applied. The only reason drag cars don't use tires five feet wide is the force required to get the big honking tire moving.
 

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Drag racing tires, as network guy pointed out, is an issue of dynamic strength. Also bear in mind there are tradeoffs occurring. Wider tire, less psi force applied to the road surface. However you also have a larger surface area for the mu forces applied (coefficient of friction). The gain in friction more than offsets the lower psi force applied. The only reason drag cars don't use tires five feet wide is the force required to get the big honking tire moving.
Since a CT has a larger footprint than a MT, would the same not apply?
 

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IMHO a well written article on the subject.

I don't think it is likely to change anyone's position on the use of CT's (or not), but I think it is a good read.
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The article has some points of knowledge that explain why some aspects of several types of tires are designed. I applaud that the author didn't try to ram down the reader's throat that mc tires are superior and one is a fool not to stick with them. I would mention just several observations. First, when showing the tire contact areas it shows the ct having the same flat amount as a mt. That would have to be an awfully skinny ct. Second, he shows damaged tires in photos. Notice they're all mt's. And finally, there is no mention that of all the recommended sources and results, there are none from anyone showing actual field testing. That's called research testing or anecdotal evidence. What we have on these Darkside sites are hundreds of field tests. Also, not mentioned that the Gold Wing or other cruisers don't lean 45° and don't get to the limits he's illustrated.

To my knowledge the only rejections heard from anyone not staying with a ct once they've tried it, is that it "felt different and they didn't like that." Hardly a death blow! Of course if one is not happy with the "feeling" then it's fine to reject using one in the future. Never one of tire failure positively attributed to the tire being a non-designed bt.

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Since a CT has a larger footprint than a MT, would the same not apply?
Short answer is yes. One of our members several years ago posted pics of him riding thru water then dry pavement, both straight and in a corner/lean - with both a MT and a CT. You could see the larger contact area of the CT on both. I know for a fact the extra traction of a CT has kept me upright in situations that I would have slipped out with a MT.

I used to race corvettes with the Corvette Club of Texas a long time ago. We used a lot of different tires from different manufacturers and provided testing results to the various vendors. And as you can guess, we had different results with different tires. My personal preference at the time was B.F. Goodrich Radial T/A 50's.

And before I retired, our company did testing and calibrated equipment for a couple of different tire manufacturers. So I'm not ignorant when it comes to tire performance. Tires (the better ones at least) are a trade-off off of various characteristics. Wet weather performance, handling, road noise, vibration, longevity, snow and ice handling, etc. What I like may not be what you like.

For CT's on the bike, my current favorite is the Yokohama Avid Envignor. Smooth, good transition, long life, great traction. I've got a spare one mounted out in the garage, along with a different brand and a Bridgestone 704. Anyone is welcome to come borrow one of them and try it for a while. Some folks like the CT, some don't. But at least they got to try it for free.

Long time ago BGross posted some pictures of his tire after hitting some really nasty road debris. The CT kept the bike up. There's also been posts of some nasty MT failures. I don't recall any posts of nasty CT failures that caused a bike to go down.

But everyone gets to ride their own ride. I've been on CT's for over 250k miles. I'll keep them.
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This might explain....at least another angle to the same story.
You can also read explanation and Q&A underneath the video.

I'm still on MT, trying to educate myself about the Darkside. If anyone can provide me with more info, please PM me.
I don't necessarily need convincing (so far, what I found about it is convincing enough) but rather some details - type of tire, brand name, tire pressure etc (2013 Wing airbag).

I would appreciate your input, especially from experienced Darksiders.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

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Cool and entertaining video. I couldn't stop watching.

But at the same time. It's a little disconcerting to me. I get the long distance advantage of the darkside. But for curvy stuff like this it just seems...well...hard to described...disconcerting.
Since your thinking of moving out here to Tennessee, I've got a standing offer to all board members they can swing by the house and borrow one of my spares and ride it for a while and see how they like it. No muss, no fuss and no cost or stuck with a tire you don't like. I also change tires for folks. Plus I can take you on some nice local roads.

More than will to discuss advantages and disadvantages with anyone. I've got over 250k miles on darkside. And I've made Killboy pic of the week riding the dragon on the darkside - while pulling a trailer... ?
 

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This might explain....at least another angle to the same story.
You can also read explanation and Q&A underneath the video.

I'm still on MT, trying to educate myself about the Darkside. If anyone can provide me with more info, please PM me.
I don't necessarily need convincing (so far, what I found about it is convincing enough) but rather some details - type of tire, brand name, tire pressure etc (2013 Wing airbag).

I would appreciate your input, especially from experienced Darksiders.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I've found the best way to do this is face to face. Your information doesn't included where you are, but if you can make a trip to Arkansas we can spend a day or two exploring the darkside while your riding one of my spare rims with a CT already mounted and ready to go. You would have to be willing to lay your bike on its side and change tires at my place (takes just a few minutes). Sounds like you've been doing some research ... if you would like some experience to go along with that, this would answer most of your questions.

My signature includes my two favorite tires and the number of darkside miles I have so far!!
 

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The standard rear tire for my 2003 is 180/60-R16 . When I bought it, the previous owner had a 205/60-R16 on it that was worn out. I also have a 2012 Vulcan Voyager which uses a 170/70-MC16. I put a Goodyear Fuel Saver 175/60R16 on it last year.
Handled like it was made for the bike.
So, I went to the Goodyear Fuel Max for my new-to-me Wing, and I have ridden the twisties so hard I have dragged my toes on my boots in the corners. Never felt like I wasn't in total control, and the bike handles amazingly! The best part comes if and when you have to do a panic stop. The bike comes to a stop faster than a MT, in a straight line, and NO FLAT SPOTS.
I'll never go back to a MT on my Wing.

364842
 

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You would have to be willing to lay your bike on its side and change tires at my place (takes just a few minutes).
What for? All you have to do is remove that center piece ofTupperware on the rear, put the bike on the center stand, and get YOU on the ground. I use an electric impact wrentch with a floppy socket adapter, and I can zip the wheel off about as fast as I can zip off a car tire.
 

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The newer wings have a lot of stuff behind the rear tire. It is a lot easier to lay over the bike than trying to remove everything.
 
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