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Discussion Starter #1
What ever happened to the guy that was trying to re-do the rear hub differental to get the RPM's down more did you ever get a first design, I'd be very interest in what you have.
Sorry I didn't save the link
 

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Notorious Rocket Scientist
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Well, if he bothered to open Dudley's works on the subject of gearing his head probably exploded.

The design of a Hypoid gear system is not a trivial endeavor. Nor is it cheap.

But I suspect any such effort would be doomed from the outset because there are only two ways to change the gear ratio: A) make the main gear larger, or B) make the pinion smaller. I doubt that there is room in the drive case for a larger main gear and reducing the pinion size results in reduced service life.
 

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If we are trying to lower the RPM's, Actually you have it backwards, you would have to make the ring gear smaller and the pinion larger, that might be possible.
 

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Grumpy Fart
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It would be a simple matter of increasing the number of teeth on the pinion and decreasing the number of teeth on the ring. No problemo.

From the part fisch, it looks like 18 on the pinion and 32 on the ring. for a 1.77 to one. A 20/30 would give you a 1.5 to one. I have no idea what it really is.

Toss a chunk in a milling machine and grind away.
 

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And the purpose would be to take the cruising speed outside of the torque envelope so it would be sluggish on "roll-on"??? Sorry, I just don't get it..
 
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The torque curve on the 1800 engine is relatively flat so a lower engine speed at highway speeds wouldn't be that much of a disadvantage but could make quite a difference in fuel mileage and engine longevity.

Of course, a taller 5th gear ratio or a 6th gear would give the highway benefits without affecting performance in the other gears.
 

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Way back in the early years, when I switched to Wings, the '75 was geared so high you couldn't come close to the RedLine in 5th or even 4th at high altitude. Along came G.E.M. who built a Ring & Pinion gear set of 4.0-1 to replace the OEM that was 3.0-1.
Then Honda changed the Cams & RedLine a little and G.E.M built optional gear sets for 3.5-1 for Wings up to '79's that worked well with Trailers and or sidecars and even with those orig '75's for better performance.

Over the years Honda finaly figured out how we were using the Wings an tailored the Engine & Drive Ratios to fit us in the USA and they did an excelent job IMHO. :cool:

Too bad G.E.M. hasn't returned to help out you guys that want optional ratio's for the 1800's so you could find out how great the OEM set up is for most all users as is. :rolleyes:

:popcorn::popcorn:
 

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While I have seen an average 1 MPG improvement since I switched from the E3 60, to the E3 70, the geography and style of my riding and the fuel I am using has changed so greatly(moved from Houston, TX, to Faifield, CA) as to probably render that figure useless. My average fuel economy calculations are compensated for tire diameter, and cover 6,400 miles on the 60's and 2,228 miles on the 70's I'm guessing that that average will probably go to a 1 mpg loss by the time I have logged equal miles, but I now do a highway commute at 75+ MPH, which I did not do with the 60's, nor for the first 1,354 miles with the 70's.

Fuel economy is one thing that 70 series proponents have never bragged about, so I doubt that it is something worth the time and expense to make a final drive ratio change for fuel economy reasons.

That said, I simply like the bike better with a 70 series tire on it, and part of that is due to the more relaxed cruise, which a taller gear would give you. The taller final drive that a 70 series tire gives just feel right to me.

THAT said, there is no way I'd go to the time and expense to get that feel if it took a final drive change to get it.

I will say that I do notice a reduction in acceleration in all gears, but it is still more than plenty for my tastes. There are also no signs of "lugging," but I do tend to downshift more often than I did with the 60s.

I never feel like the bike is over-geared though, the way the Electraglide that I rode felt. I was often downshifting that bike into 3rd, where I am just dropping to 4th with the Wing.
 

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My thought is.... if a different, let's say taller final drive ratio was available, I think it would be interesting being able to change the final drive unit almost as easily as rear wheel and tire size. With the trike take-off parts out there and the design of the 1800 Wing.... this would be interesting.
Think of swapping the final drive for slab riding or mountain twisties. Inreresting thought indeed!
 

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While I have seen an average 1 MPG improvement since I switched from the E3 60, to the E3 70, the geography and style of my riding and the fuel I am using has changed so greatly(moved from Houston, TX, to Faifield, CA) as to probably render that figure useless. My average fuel economy calculations are compensated for tire diameter, and cover 6,400 miles on the 60's and 2,228 miles on the 70's I'm guessing that that average will probably go to a 1 mpg loss by the time I have logged equal miles, but I now do a highway commute at 75+ MPH, which I did not do with the 60's, nor for the first 1,354 miles with the 70's.

Fuel economy is one thing that 70 series proponents have never bragged about, so I doubt that it is something worth the time and expense to make a final drive ratio change for fuel economy reasons.

That said, I simply like the bike better with a 70 series tire on it, and part of that is due to the more relaxed cruise, which a taller gear would give you. The taller final drive that a 70 series tire gives just feel right to me.

THAT said, there is no way I'd go to the time and expense to get that feel if it took a final drive change to get it.

I will say that I do notice a reduction in acceleration in all gears, but it is still more than plenty for my tastes. There are also no signs of "lugging," but I do tend to downshift more often than I did with the 60s.

I never feel like the bike is over-geared though, the way the Electraglide that I rode felt. I was often downshifting that bike into 3rd, where I am just dropping to 4th with the Wing.
Thanks for the info.

This has the same result as changing the final drive ratio for a lot less money. If anyone wants to find out what higher gearing feels like they just need to put on a 70 series tire for a while.
 

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I had a VTX 1800 prior to getting a Wing, and with the 1800 VTX it was common for many of us to change out our final drives to the taller gearing of the 1300 VTX final drives. I did mine and really enjoyed the difference. It was such a simple swap, and because there were a lot of 1300 trike take offs, the taller final drive of the 1300s were readily available. Most felt it made the 1800 VTX into a better cruiser, even though a little low end torque was given up. Randy
 

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.

I have a large tire on the back, 195/65 which is like going to a 70 series m/c tire.

My Speedo and GPS are both spot on now !! So at a true 70 MPH, I am turning less RPM than a stock Wing going a true 70 which would be around 75 or so on his speedo.

I do not see an increase in MPG's, if anything, it may have dropped a bit.

JMHO :cool:


 

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Guys,
I brought this topic up about 7 months ago when we got our '02. I got more flack than a WWII bomber did over Berlin. I still feel the bike is under geared for highway/super slab cruising. With stock tires, I'm at 2500-2600 RPMs for 60 mph and that's with an incorrect speedo. All the radar signs the blurt out your speed as you cruise by them say I'm doing 56 when my speedo says 61. Yes, the bike has great acceleration from the git go, yes it has great passing power on the freeway without downshifting. These bikes have gobs of torque and HP in all kinds of RPM.

So, since many of you, like me, do a lot of freeway driving and some of you cruise at higher speeds then I do, I can see the warrant for change on an alternate final drive gear set. I'm not speaking for anyone but me here so when I say I bought this bike for cruising, not ninja rocketing around the freeway or the back country, I think I'd be really happy with say, 500-700 lower freeway rpms then I have now and, If the need arose, I'd downshift to get around something and go back to cruising. No big deal to me.

Just about every one who's posted info on cruising speeds vs mpg, has stated that there's always an increase in mpg if they cruise slower. Well, to me, that says two things, your rpms are lower and, maybe the wind resistance is different at a lower speed. Heck, I don't know, I'm no aerodynamics expert. Most of the people on Wings don't care about mileage anyway. They have a very nice machine and like how it operates and so their happy. ME TOO, I would just like a little lower Rs while on the long rides so that perfect engine lasts as long as possible without me getting my dirty little hands inside it to rebuild it.

I know, I know, many of you cruise for gazillions of miles at 80 + and have 100K or 200K on your bikes and they still run fine. I also know the big auto manufacturers have been putting in 6 SPEED AUTOS, with (2) over drives for quite some time now in order get the rpm down and gas mileage up. Why not Honda?
Scott
 

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The 70s knock about 200 rpm off and that noticably reduces acceleration in every gear. I feel that what the 70s do is about the most I'd want to see in a final drive change.

Now a 6th gear that would knock it down, say 500 rpm, while leaving 5th at the stock 60s rpm would be nice IMO, but I can promise you that the few of us who would like that would be drowned out by the ones hating to have to downshift to make a pass...

I firmly believe that, if we see a 6th gear on a next gen Wing, it will not be a second overdrive, but simply put the ratios closer together, similar to what the Miata has. In a Miata, the 6 speed version actually has shorter overall final drive than the 5 speed version, so that, at a given speed, the rpms of the 5 speed are a bit lower than that of the 6.
 

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Mad UK Winger
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Im just surprised that on a 2 wheeled 'rolls royce' like the wing, there isnt an electronic OD in the final drive stage. they would only have to scale one down from the many that cars have used over the years, im sure they wouldnt find it too difficult and could probably bring a far better mileage and longevity of the engine as bonus without affecting the cruise too much.

just an idea is all. :)
 

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Notorious Rocket Scientist
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If we are trying to lower the RPM's, Actually you have it backwards, you would have to make the ring gear smaller and the pinion larger, that might be possible.
Oops! I thought they were trying to lower the gear ratio. My bad!
 

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While the new version, next gen of the wing was mentioned...... My only fear... and it's my opinion only.... is that the 2010 Wing will have some kind of clutchless automatic transmission!!!!! :22yikes:I would be in the "don't like it" group if that happens! :wrong: 4MEE
 

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AS the former owner of an 01, with 190,000 miles and a 07, with 65,000
miles, I just don't understand.

1. In real world testing with another 1800, the one with the 70 series tire would not pull as many rpms as the 60 series shod bike would.

2. Just because you get better gas mileage running SLOWER doesn't necessarily mean you will better mileage running less rpm's at speed.

3. Reread the first statement. Engine wear and tear is not an issue with this motorcycle. As always your views may be different than mine.
 
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