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Discussion Starter #1
Okay everyone, first off I am not here to insult anyone. I just want to express some feelings here and see what others think. I just bought my first goldwing last week. It is a silver 2003 with ABS. Previously I had been riding a 1988 Kawasaki Voyager. Kawasaki stopped making the Voyager last year so they are no longer available.

First thing I noticed when comparing the two is that eveything on the Goldwing is optional. The Voyager came with 4 speakers, it came with an AM/FM/Cassette player, came with bags that fit in the trunk and saddlebags for packing, it came with a light and a vanity mirror in the trunk, it has hydraulicly adjusted valves (no valve adjustments for life), and it came with a chrome luggage rack on the trunk. I bought the bike new and these were and still are standard equipment on a new Voyager. On top of all this the Voyager only costs around $11,000.00 brand new. The only option really available for it is a CB unit that doesn't come standard. The goldwing without any of this stuff costs almost $19,000 and I will have to put several more thousand into it to get it to the same state as my Voyager.

Now the Goldwing has reverse (not the Voyager) but the Voyager is lighter and I never needed to have reverse with it. The Goldwing might be a little faster, but the Voyager has a 1200cc inline 4 engine with 110 horsepower from the factory, so it is no slouch either.

No on top of all these deficiencies (for lack of a better word), I am actually worried about driving the goldwing for fear of frame cracks, plus my girlfriend is scared of the bike due to the frame cracks. Then you have the overheating issue (which I haven't experienced yet). The voyager has never been recalled, has never had to have anything done other than regular maintenance, and it has over 80,000 miles on it.

Now don't get me wrong the little bit that I actually got to ride the Goldwing before all this snow came, I did like it. It is a nice bike. I did not like the BMW tourer at all. But frankly I am a little scared of the goldwing now, and I am stuck with it. I can't give it back, and if I sold it I would lose alot of money on it, and I can't get a new Voyager. I am just not sure, in light of all these differences, and the issues Honda seems to be having with manufacturing quality, why the Goldwing is considered the best touring bike built.

I hope my fears of my new goldwing are unfounded, since I do like the bike. I just think that Honda needs to build the bike so that it truly is the best touring rig out there considering the money they charge for one.

What do you all think?

Again, don't take this personally, I am a member of this board, and love all the great information that is available to me, and I am sure that I will continue to enjoy my new wing (assuming the frame issue gets resolved). I just wanted to state some opinions that I have developed so far.

Thanks,

Rob Hatfield
 

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I OWNED a 02 1800. I SOLD it. It did not overheat nor did the frame crack.

It did wear tires prematurely, and you are right, it nickeled and dimed me to death with all the items that had been standard on my '98 SE.

My reason for selling it (and buying a '04 Ultra Classic) is that it seemed that Honda rushed this brute to the market, and also tryed to increase profits by making everything a little lighter or cheaper. I felt I was riding on the 'lowest bid'.

On the up side, it handled like a dream. Fast, great in the curves. Comfortable both for me and my wife.

I have nothing against 'wings or Honda. I may even buy one again. But they need to change their outlook before I go back to Big Red.

Peter
 

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Discussion Starter #3
One other thing I just thought of. My Voyager even came with a full cover for the bike. That was nice when traveling.

Rob
 

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Rob-

I think that you are worrying over miniscule problems. You are going to be more likely to be injured by the carelessness of another driver (or by your own carelessness), than you will be injured by a failure of the frame on the bike. I don't have stats to back this up, but it is true.

Unless I've missed something, no one has been thrown from the bike by a frame failure. No one had been injured (beyond a scald or burn) by failure of the cooling system. Proper riding gear would minimize any effects of the hot coolant.

Yes, the Goldwing costs more. But this Goldwing was not the same 1980's design and technology that one would find on the Voyager XII. Could you get ABS on a Voyager? The Goldwing 1500 was a more advanced bike than the Voyager XII. The R&D costs for the Voyager had to have been paid off years ago. The rear speakers on the Voyager looked like an afterthought.

From the Voyager to the GL1800, you have gone up two generations. IMHO, the GL1200 compared to the Voyager, not the GL1500... and NO where near the same as the GL1800.

I wouldn't pay $11,000 for a Voyager. To me, that is overpriced for a machine that had 20 year old design and technology. I paid $12,500 for my 2002 GL1800... when it was seven months old and had 3,700 miles on the odometer. I bought a LOT more bike for just $1,500 more, and it came with a number of accessories.

Honda knew when the GL1200 was outdated. They knew when the GL1500 was outdated. Kawasaki never seemed to know that with the Voyager. And when will they ever do anything about the Concours?

You're comparing apples and oranges. They are both touring bikes. After that, all comparison ends.
 

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Let me get this straight, you ride a motorcycle on streets with cages full of frantic housewifes, kids, drunks, junkies and what ever else out there; but you are worried about living for tomorrow. Sell the bike and get a BMW Auto instead. Any and all issues will just have to be overcome, for better or worse. (remember that one!) Yes, I agree with you about the $$ part.
 

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I agree with the nickle and diming. My wife finally said to me the other day, "you bought the Cadillac of motorcycles and you've had to add things to it since you bought it. Why didn't it come with all these things?" I explained that alot of what I have bought were "accessories" not "necessities" but... The MBLs, AirHawk and hopefully soon, 01 stock seat with backrest are all COMFORT items. Maybe I should have looked more to the Road King or Royal Venture for the comfort instead of the GL1800.

I too, really like my Goldwing and just wish that there were more comfort adjustments or options for it. I guess it's the same problem they have with the cars. They're all built for people 5'0" to 5'10", less than 200lbs and I haven't seen that since Junior High School!
 

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Dont know anything about the Voyager, and this my first Wing, bought it last summer, and at that time I knew nothing about frame cracks and the other issues. At first I was a little like you having some conserns over these things but I decided to keep a check on the bike and ride the fool out of it. NOw many months later I would not have any other bike unless I could also keep the wing. You can check the serial # and see if is in the range that have had problems with the frame, if it is have it fixed , if not ......RIDE & ENJOY
 

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Discussion Starter #8
GL03 said:
Let me get this straight, you ride a motorcycle on streets with cages full of frantic housewifes, kids, drunks, junkies and what ever else out there; but you are worried about living for tomorrow. Sell the bike and get a BMW Auto instead. Any and all issues will just have to be overcome, for better or worse. (remember that one!) Yes, I agree with you about the $$ part.
I never said that I worry about living for tomorrow. I understand and accept all issues related to my safety on the streets with a motorcycle. I have been riding my whole life and will never give it up. But I do expect that my motorcycle manufacturer is not going to produce a motorcycle that will increase the possibility of my getting hurt. My bike is not in VIN# range for the recall, but it appears they are now finding other cracks in the frames. Frankly this does scare me. It is bad enough I have to fend off all the things you mentioned, but now I also have to fend off a bike with possible frame issues. We aren't talking about something trivial like moldings that fall off, we are talking about frames cracking. This is not good. I have owned all manner of motorcycles and currently restore motorcycles as a side business. I have 9 bikes of my own. I have never seen a motorcycle frame crack other than from abuse (jumping and such, but mostly with dirt bikes).

I will continue to ride my goldwing and hope for the best. For me the worst thing is all the extra stuff I have to buy just to get it to the level of my 1988 Voyager. As someone else mentioned, it is supposed to be the Cadillac of bikes, so why does it come with nothing?

Rob
 

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Mach1970, . . . . . you need to read some more of this forum, all subjects. Sounds like you are scared stiff! Your Voyager was an 88 and cost 11,000. What did a new wing cost in 1988?? It wasn't 19000. And if you paid 19000. then you paid too much cause all of us got ours for a lot less than that!

Sure, there is going to be that 1-2% that doesn't like it! But there is always that 1-2% that doesn't like anything! They are never happy!

Get on your bike, let your hair down (figure of speech) and go ride. Find that smile that plasters your face each and everytime you get on that great machine and dance through the twisties and crank the throttle on. Wave at all the other bikes as you blast by them!! After you get some experience under your belt, then make your "objective" comments.
 
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Rob,
As you saw in mrgl02's post, most of your statements will fall on deaf ears on this board. But most of these folks have never owned a Voyager. I am a former Voyager owner as well (red '97) that I bought brand new for $9995 and put over 50k miles on in two years. It was without a doubt the absolutely best bike I've ever ridden in my entire life. I had a crash that only scuffed the crash bars of the bike but did some major damage to me. Doc said I'd never ride again so I sold the bike. Took over a year and a half but I did get back to where I could ride. Really wish I still had the bike.

Let me say this: I think the Voyager was a much better bike than this rendition of the wing. Wish I still had the Voyager. (please don't send me emails offering stupid sums of money for my wing...it's not for sale or trade)

I believe the GL1800 has problems and is now getting a pretty bad reputation. I believe that's why Honda is probably ditching the logo in '05 and going to something else trying to put this nightmare behind them. If this latest round of frame cracks gets much bigger, Honda is going to have a much more serious problem on their hands than tarnished image. Yes my wing runs nice. Yes it handles nice. No better than the Voyager did with 20 year old technology though. (I'm not a canyon carver or racer...these statements are based on my riding of my bike. Your actual results may vary.) Dollar for dollar the Voyager was the best touring bike on the market.

For the record, my wife talked about not riding the wing due to the frame issues as well. This latest round of failures has her really nervous since she didn't buy off on the last "fix" either.
 
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for the life of me I can't figure out how ANY vehicle costing $18k can not have a built in cup holder, OUTRAGIOUS! :beer8:
 

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Mach1970, nice post. You bring up some solid points and I agree with your thinking. One paragraph you wrote struck home with me...No on top of all these deficiencies (for lack of a better word), I am actually worried about driving the goldwing for fear of frame cracks, plus my girlfriend is scared of the bike due to the frame cracks. Then you have the overheating issue (which I haven't experienced yet). The voyager has never been recalled, has never had to have anything done other than regular maintenance, and it has over 80,000 miles on it.

I have the same concerns. Now, new cracks have appeared. It does make one very uneasy. Also makes one wonder what the resale value of an affected 1800 really is. I dont have any answers for you. Wish I did. I am closely watching the new frame crack threads and see if this problem expands to a larger headache than already reported.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Snazzy Nazzy Biker said:
Mach1970, . . . . . you need to read some more of this forum, all subjects. Sounds like you are scared stiff! Your Voyager was an 88 and cost 11,000. What did a new wing cost in 1988?? It wasn't 19000. And if you paid 19000. then you paid too much cause all of us got ours for a lot less than that!

Sure, there is going to be that 1-2% that doesn't like it! But there is always that 1-2% that doesn't like anything! They are never happy!

Get on your bike, let your hair down (figure of speech) and go ride. Find that smile that plasters your face each and everytime you get on that great machine and dance through the twisties and crank the throttle on. Wave at all the other bikes as you blast by them!! After you get some experience under your belt, then make your "objective" comments.
I don't remember what I paid for my Voyager in 1988 but I know it was no where near $11,000. The $11,000 price was for a new 2003 model.
Compared to other bikes on the market today you can't to many big bikes under that price and the Voyager is big full size touring rig. The only thing so far that I have found is that the Goldwing out handles my Voyager. But if I wanted to carve canyons I would take one of my race bikes out for a run. Yes I used to race motorcycles years ago.

I was just offering up my comparison between the two bikes. I have only put about 50 miles on the Goldwing so far. I plan on riding the hell out of it if this weather in the east ever clears up, but for now I think the Voyager was hands down a better bike for the money. Even with it's outdated technology it does almost everything as good as the wing, and it comes with all the bells and whistles already installed. The styling might not be to everyone's liking but I did like it and so do alot of other Voyager owner's.

These are just my own personal thoughts that I though I would share with the group. I love this board and enjoy reading the posts. I also look forward to spending some time with my new wing (as long as the frame holds together).

Thanks for listening,

Rob
 

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WEll....I'll get my flame suit on :D

This sounds like "buyers lament". Before I put my $$ down on the wing, I did RESEARCH on what was available for touring bikes....what came with each mnfgs model and read all I could on riders experiences for the different models. Effectively narrowing my choices down to the wing and BMW tourer. I choose the wing with full awareness of the overheat and frame issues and lack of accessories. So I am not complaining about what could or should have been. No one forced any of us to buy a godwing.....
 

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I have been riding 45 years or more. This is my 5th Goldwing and probably my 20th Honda.

Yes I put a lot of "stuff" on my bike. As the part was optional, so was the purchase. Not one thing that I did add to my bike, made it perform any better. It just brought it in line with my personal choices and desires. Glad some stranger did not finish my bike for me.

I paid $14,200 in '02 for an '01 leftover (new). The bike had the CB, CD, Chrome Cowl, Hondaline running lights & trunk rack and assorted chrome pieces.

Yup, my bike did overheat. pissed me off too. Well now the ECM has been done and I believe I am home free.

I have never in my life owned a bike that brings so much to the table. I can ride with the Voyagers, Harley's and the crotch rockets. Pound for pound I got a bargain andand a better machine .

Let us discuss Your worrying about riding the bike. If you are truly worried about riding your bike, you need to get rid of it, even if you take a hit on the price. I would never own a pit bull, that might or might not bite me. If you can not have confidence in your ride, change your ride.

I hope that you can work this out to the best situation for you and yours.

Bulldog
 

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mach1970 said:
These are just my own personal thoughts that I though I would share with the group. I love this board and enjoy reading the posts. I also look forward to spending some time with my new wing (as long as the frame holds together).

Thanks for listening,

Rob
Rob,
Again, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I know sometimes it seems that there a lot of Honda bigots that don't want to hear other viewpoints but that's seen everywhere. As I stated before, I would have liked to have seen more "standard" equipment on this bike but bought it even without that. It is, without a doubt, the best bike I have ever owned (emphasis on "I have ever owned") but I would have liked for it to be just a bit more comfortable for me "out-of-the-box".
 

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Tourist said:
.......a godwing.....
Holy Overstatement, Batman!! :lol:
Yeah, it's that dang keyboard that I have not bought all the options for....yet :shock:
 

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I can't understand why people complain about having to purchase acessory items one at a time rather than having the bike come with them. You still would have to pay for them. Do you want to pay for extra items to be included on the bike that you don't want? I prefer to buy the bike and pay only for the conviences that I want or can afford.
 
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