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2018 Honda Goldwing Tour DCT Airbag
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Folks,
We're quite often reading of riders with Wing issues that have stumped either their local dealership or maybe distant ones. The older Wings, as in say, 1984-5-6 or so models weren't too overly technical in terms of electronics etc. Analyzing most issues on those wasn't all that hard. But as time has passed, Wings, like most other motorcycles/cars/trucks/spaceships/submarines etc., things have gotten SERIOUSLY TECHINCAL in all operations of the engine, lighting and more. I know there are technical schools such as Wyotech and UTI (Universal Technical Institute) that offer some m/c training.

The newer the Wing is, the more technically built it is. The '18's and up get REAL SERIOUS in technical/electrical ops. So, just wondering if anyone actually knows whether or not any of the techs at any of the Honda dealerships that they have had their Wings serviced or repaired at, have had technical training provided by HONDA? I don't know if Harley or, BMW, or any other of the larger brand M/C's provide any tech training. When my son worked for a couple of GM dealerships, they'd send him to school every so often to "brush up" on what's the latest in tech.

Then there's the NIASE certs for Auto techs. National Institute of Automotive Service Excellence. That is a system by which auto techs get trained and tested and certified INDEPENDENTLY of any manufacurer. I don't think I know of any such type training/testing/certification system for motorcycle techs. There are quite a few reports of dealers getting stumped by a problem they have no idea on and turn to the Honda field reps and Honda herself for help. Even Honda gets stumped on some issues of our newer machines. It's really, really nice to pilot a highly advanced machine like a newer '18 and up Wing. But, when it hiccups, are there really qualified techs to turn to for help?
Scott
 

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All manufacturers make technical training classes available to their dealers. But "available" is the operative word. Some dealers take advantage of these training classes. Many do not do so. In theory sending your technicians to training classes is a requirement. Unfortunately for the end consumer, if the dealer sells a lot of vehicles, the admonishment(s) by the OEM tend to be pro-forma window dressing. I managed the training programs for several large OEM's over the course of my career. I know of where I speak.
 

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All manufacturers make technical training classes available to their dealers. But "available" is the operative word. Some dealers take advantage of these training classes. Many do not do so. In theory sending your technicians to training classes is a requirement. Unfortunately for the end consumer, if the dealer sells a lot of vehicles, the admonishment(s) by the OEM tend to be pro-forma window dressing. I managed the training programs for several large OEM's over the course of my career. I know of where I speak.
It's up to the dealer to send his techs. Not mandatory. If it's a small dealer he may decide not to send anyone. He would probably have to cover the salary of the tech and motel/hotel costs. Plus, he will lose his lead tech for a few days.
Larger dealers can probably afford it.
 

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Folks,
We're quite often reading of riders with Wing issues that have stumped either their local dealership or maybe distant ones. The older Wings, as in say, 1984-5-6 or so models weren't too overly technical in terms of electronics etc. Analyzing most issues on those wasn't all that hard. But as time has passed, Wings, like most other motorcycles/cars/trucks/spaceships/submarines etc., things have gotten SERIOUSLY TECHINCAL in all operations of the engine, lighting and more. I know there are technical schools such as Wyotech and UTI (Universal Technical Institute) that offer some m/c training.

The newer the Wing is, the more technically built it is. The '18's and up get REAL SERIOUS in technical/electrical ops. So, just wondering if anyone actually knows whether or not any of the techs at any of the Honda dealerships that they have had their Wings serviced or repaired at, have had technical training provided by HONDA? I don't know if Harley or, BMW, or any other of the larger brand M/C's provide any tech training. When my son worked for a couple of GM dealerships, they'd send him to school every so often to "brush up" on what's the latest in tech.

Then there's the NIASE certs for Auto techs. National Institute of Automotive Service Excellence. That is a system by which auto techs get trained and tested and certified INDEPENDENTLY of any manufacurer. I don't think I know of any such type training/testing/certification system for motorcycle techs. There are quite a few reports of dealers getting stumped by a problem they have no idea on and turn to the Honda field reps and Honda herself for help. Even Honda gets stumped on some issues of our newer machines. It's really, really nice to pilot a highly advanced machine like a newer '18 and up Wing. But, when it hiccups, are there really qualified techs to turn to for help?
Scott
In the northern states the techs have a hard time in the off season with lack of pay and aren’t payed enough to begin with which causes a lot of turnover. My local shop has had some good ones but have gone on to greener pastures


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In the northern states the techs have a hard time in the off season with lack of pay and aren’t payed enough to begin with which causes a lot of turnover. My local shop has had some good ones but have gone on to greener pastures


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The same thing happens to auto techs. The large chain dealerships can afford to pay higher wages and benefits.
My Honda dealer does a lot of sales of off road 4x4's and side by sides (other brands). It's only a 3 man shop, so the techs have year round employment and the service manager also gets his hands dirty when they get busy.
I used to work for RCA service and was sent to school once a year to learn new products. The biggest problem I had was we didn't see breakdowns until months or a year later. By that time I forgot what I had learned.
 

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When the 2018 Wing came out dealers that ordered them were required to send a tech out to Denver I believe for a school that lasted a week or 10 days. The training was just on the Goldwing. We sent one tech from the dealership I worked for at the time. Now since then I have no idea what they are doing.
 

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I’d say 99 percent of the mechanics that work at any motorcycle shop is exactly that, a mechanic and NOT a factory trained TECH.
You can get on the Honda Powersports website and do a zip code dealer search and use a filter search for “Honda Certified Technician”.
 

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2018 Honda Goldwing Tour DCT Airbag
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I certainly understand that paying a tech his/her salary when they are in fact not working and are attending school for the job, is probably tough on the dealership owner(s). When you have NO money coming in due to your tech being gone, I guess one should have some back-up funds for such times. But, another way of looking at it is, if your tech comes back re-edumacated, they'll have a better understanding of what they're working on and, with that, you'll potentially have happy customer which, might make them RETURN customers and, they say word of mouth is the best advertising so, if those happy customers tell friends and other people how well they were treated and the work on their vehicle/motorcycle was done correctly and efficiently, then it's highly likely that that should bring in maybe new customers. And that will make up for the lost time the tech was gone. At least that's the way I think about this kind of scenario.

I know and understand the issues of dealers in the sections of the U.S. where that white stuff accumulates and riding and service work slow waaaaaaaaay down. It is what it is and maybe dealers in those regions could offer specials on regular service work, oil changes whatever. That is if, IF riders could be able to get their bikes out of hibernation and bring them in for those specials. Just a thought here.
Scott
 

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Techs in my neck of the woods are graduates of MMI.
In the shop I worked at, the owner was cheap and didn't want to pay for a decent mechanic. He would "intern" (work for free) a MMI student or graduate for 90 days. If they showed promise, he would hire them. Needless to say every single one of them screwed up royally and were let go and the boss had to fix their screw ups. We did have one ex-military guy who was pretty good, but he and the boss didn't see eye to eye, so he was asked to leave too. The other side of the equation was that why would an experienced tech work for low pay and no benefits when he could go to a corporate dealership with better pay and benefits? The boss just didn't get it.
 

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When the 2018 Wing came out dealers that ordered them were required to send a tech out to Denver I believe for a school that lasted a week or 10 days. The training was just on the Goldwing. We sent one tech from the dealership I worked for at the time. Now since then I have no idea what they are doing.
I can assure you this didn't happen in Tennessee. All education/information about new products was handled via internet training. Our techs had to "attend classes" online to get the new information. Covid made classes even more remote.

And there were many times the techs helped each other to pass the tests to gain their certification. It wasn't the best way to learn.
 

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I guess it is like that in any business. Qualifications depend on the person hiring. They may or may not require it, depending on how much they pay. If they pay a lot, they may want them to be trained and certified.
I know of a auto body shop that doesn't require any certifications at all. If you can do the work you're hired. He doesn't pay much and the turn over is high. He won't pay for any training to keep up with new cars and the requirements that are needed. I wonder how does the body repair man know how to take the new cars apart and put them back together without any training. I had my truck worked on there and one day I went to replace the battery. There is a bracket that has to be removed using 4 bolts. When I took them off, every bolt was a different length. They are supposed to be all the same size. That tells me they just put any bolt anywhere it fit. I wonder about the parts that needed a long bolt that got a short one, they could be just barely hanging on. It's crazy!
 

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I can assure you this didn't happen in Tennessee. All education/information about new products was handled via internet training. Our techs had to "attend classes" online to get the new information. Covid made classes even more remote.

And there were many times the techs helped each other to pass the tests to gain their certification. It wasn't the best way to learn.
Did your dealership participate in the GW demo program from February to July 2018?
 

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2022 DCT Non-Touring
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Any OEM dealership has to have a percentage of factory-trained technicians on staff in order to get paid by the manufacturer to perform warranty work. It's been that way for many, many years.
 

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Conclusion thus far on this fresh post..................Do your own work, if possible. We are in some challenging times. Everyone, I mean everyone cuts corners, any business, any industry, this is it for now. Working on our own machines, we do not and never will cut corners. Who knows the amount of furkle ups these guys had done while taking/replacing stuff. If I don't have choice, the bike will go to the dealer, Russian Roulette, I guess.
 

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Any OEM dealership has to have a percentage of factory-trained technicians on staff in order to get paid by the manufacturer to perform warranty work. It's been that way for many, many years.
That's right. I use to be a service tech for Milwaukee, DeWalt, Porter C. and it was applied the same way. Company paid for flights and hotels. Manufacturer, the rest. Moreover, yearly, up-to-date refreshments required, no exceptions.
 

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That's right. I use to be a service tech for Milwaukee, DeWalt, Porter C. and it was applied the same way. Company paid for flights and hotels. Manufacturer, the rest. Moreover, yearly, up-to-date refreshments required, no exceptions.
Former Ford/Lincoln/Mercury tech here. The training was continuous.
 
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Dealerships around here probably sell and service 4x4's 50:1 over Gold Wings. I seriously doubt if they are sending anyone to Gold Wing school.
Sad part is, the dealer sends a guy out, 90 days later, he found a better paying job. The dealer.I CAN'T PAY YOU THAT !!! The dealer is not in a rush to get another cert tech on 18+. Bikes come in for work and here is the Russian Roulette comes handy :confused::rolleyes::confused::rolleyes:.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Conclusion thus far on this fresh post..................Do your own work, if possible. We are in some challenging times. Everyone, I mean everyone cuts corners, any business, any industry, this is it for now. Working on our own machines, we do not and never will cut corners. Who knows the amount of furkle ups these guys had done while taking/replacing stuff. If I don't have choice, the bike will go to the dealer, Russian Roulette, I guess.
Well Sir,
I whole heartedly agree with the "Work on your own tactic". Been doing it for oh, about 60+ years. But, at over 70 now, these new cars/motorcycles etc. are not what I cut my teeth on. There comes a time when, the old cliche " It's all GREEK to me", really means what it says or looks like. At a real start of being a DIY type dude way back a few light years ago at age 15-16, it was actually fun to dig into cars back then. Anyone remember Points and condensers? Those were the days. Yep, not very efficient engines but, that was the "technology* back then.

Todays engines, AND body and chassis' are soooooooo much more complicated. Yes, with the help from very, very qualified and ultra helpful members of this forum, many of us SAFELY accomplish electrical/wiring tasks that involve additional lights, trailer wire harnesses, additional GPS units, auxiliary power ports and more for DIY tasks. And Oil changes are not rocket science so, even the most novice DIY types of handle those without catastrophes.

Now, when it comes to brake bleeding, manual clutch bleeding, brake pad changing, and things like that, DIY starts to drop people off. Many will handle it but less than before. Tire changing, while really not rocket science, many riders simply don't have the tools or the facilities or even the desire to handle was primarily/technically, is a simple chore. And don't forget the balancing part of that operation.

Now, anything higher than what's been mentioned, like engine problem diagnostics, maybe fuel system diagnostics, engine trouble light diagnostics, DCT shifting issues, and things like that, if I had to guess, I'd say 99.99999% of even the most seasoned DIY types fall off the capabilities list. Just guessing here. But, along with all those high-tech issues, there's the need for HIGH TECH MACHINES, or computer diagnostics with specialized software programs etc. that typically only the authorized dealers are entitled to.

So, this is primarily the reasoning for the original post. To find out if, there are highly or at least nicely qualified and trained techs at any particular dealership that can handle ANY level of Wing issues, be it an oil change or, an engine rebuild. And does Honda do their part in training techs to be able to work on customers very expensive Wings. From the answers, it sounds like maybe Honda offers training but, whether or not a dealership can afford to send people, or even wants to send people to said training, is another subject.

Now, while this topic/thread has been primarily about Honda and certified training of techs, what does Harley and maybe BMW do in the same scenarios since they are as big or bigger than Honda in maybe general sales of m/c's?
Scott
 
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