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Discussion Starter #1
Since we appear to have an endless discussion over the merits of tires, I thought I would contribute a few pictures and save some of the 1000 words.

This rear tire has 8,000 miles. It still has at least half the tread remaining, but I am replacing it because the vibration in the curves is so strong it makes it feel like there is a loss of traction. I don't know if that is the case, and I realize I am not close to pushing the limits, but it is distracting nevertheless. If you click on http://picasaweb.google.com/gpickren/E3TireWear
you can click the zoom button and get a good close view of the tires. With cupping like this it should be no surprise that these tires howl in turns. I could live with the howling, but I just didn't like the feel of the vibration in the turns as the cups on this tire buzzed. As you can see they are raised up over 1/8".

I replaced the OEM Dunlop 250's at 8,200 miles because I was going on a trip. I probably could have gotten another 2,000 miles out of them. The front E3 is still looking pretty good. No obvious cupping, just a little angular perhaps because of Dunlops dual tread compound. I have ridden lots of curvy mountain roads 2 up. Probably over 1/2 of the miles. Tire pressure has been 41.

I had 5,000 miles on these when I upgraded my suspension to Traxxion. Since I have had two badly cupped rear tires, it should be interesting to see how the new tires perform with the full Traxxion setup.
 

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Wow those are cupped pretty bad. My E-3's howl in the turns and have since I put them on last spring. So far I havent noticed any cupping, but I only put on 5K miles last year so we'll see..... :)
 

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:shock:

Concur Mike,
Mine howl like heck both one and two up, the wife keeps askin' me what I'm tryin' to do and I tell her it's the awesome technology the college educated nutjob designed for us hard workin' folks to waste our money on. :roll: She's not impressed and tells me to do more research before the next set comes from Hal, no matter which ones they are. :roll: :wink:
Since The Admiral has spoken I will be re-researchin' all the tire threads from the last 3-4 months first and then work my way back. :roll:
 

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I put 9000 on my OEM 250's (not at wear bars, just had wet riding slippage) and I have 11,000 on the E3's
(about 1/2 worn to wear bars) they both had the same cupping. Not as bad as yours but very obvious when
looking from the side. I think it is just the radial tire and the groove design. The grooves are just too wide,
when you lean into a turn the weight of the bike drops into the groove area and the result is cupping. I really
think narrower and more grooves would help reduce the problem and still give good traction. My riding partner
had stone's as OEM and he replaced also with stone's, he has very little cupping (there is some) and the grooves
are not as wide. but, it looks like the compound on the stone's must be softer as he is usually at the wear bars
at 8000.
Just my .02
 

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An additional solution would be to trim the rear tire.
Extreme caution needs to be taken when doing this.
1) Center Stand the bike
2) Crank bike and shift to 3rd gear at idle.
3) Take a course wood rasp and begin shaving the rear tire outer edges where the cupping is prominent.
4) Check the tire in the stopped position for smoothness occassionaly.
5) Once again, use extreme caution when doing this.

This will eliminate noise coming from the rear tire and also take away the vibrations when turning.
 

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My E3's looked about like the ones in the pictures at about 9K miles.
They were just too noisy, too slippery, and too wobbly to ride any longer.
Not one of the better puchasing decision I've made. Hope I don't do it again.
 

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Got about 12K on mine. They howl, but it doesn't bother me.
Just turn up the tunes.

Cupping not that bad, can't see it, but you can feel it when rubbing your hand over the tire. Superbrace installed 2K into the mileage, not sure if it slowed cupping in the front or not.

Overall I'm happy, as the OEM Stones were shot at 12K.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The rasp idea is interesting. I have a Sureform which I think would shave it pretty good. If I hadn't set a tire appointment I might have tried it. What I will be interested to see having had two cupped rear tires is how the new tire will perform with the Traxxion shock. Max was interested as well, and I told him I would keep him informed.

As I mentioned most of my riding for the 8000 miles was either 2 up on country roads on two 1800 mile trips, 200 mile day trips also 2 up and stop and go city traffic. Very little straight road cruising.

I am going to ride it a while with the new rear Stone and the present E3 so I can confirm that the buzzing vibration was coming only from the rear tire, then I will mount the 709 Stone on the front.

I really liked the E3's for the first 3,000 miles, especially how well the front handled cracks and rain grooves, but the E3 cupped much more than the 250 on the rear, but much less than the 250 on the front.

If I could get 8,000 or so without the cupping and the tire gripped better as well because of a softer compound I would consider that a good deal.

I have a Burgman that I put Pirelli Diablos on. They have the same tread as their sport bike Diablos. These tires made a huge ride difference over the OEM Bridgestones. Felt like new suspension. The Pirellis greatly improved the turning, are very sticky, made the ride smoother and are very quiet. Reports are that they don't last as long as the Stones, but if this ride holds up when it hits up in the 7,000 mile mark I will be very happy with them.

Wonder why Pirelli doesn't make a Wing Diablo?
 

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gpick said:
Since we appear to have an endless discussion over the merits of tires, I thought I would contribute a few pictures and save some of the 1000 words.
Both my rear E3's looked like that. I ran them all the way to the replacement point but they were noisy and they did buzz. After trying the 2nd (first might have been a fluke), I am exploring Metz. The rear at 15K miles is much better that the 'Lop.

It seems that radial tires do have different wear characteristics than bias tires, and not just on Wings.
 

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I have about 9k on my E3's. They still have a usable amount of tread left and aren't cupping as bad as the original D250's did, but I am going to replace them over the winter anyhow. I feel way less secure on this E3 than i did with the D250 at the same level of wear. the back end feels like it wants to slide out too easily and has really hurt my riding confidence.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
the back end feels like it wants to slide out too easily and has really hurt my riding confidence.
That's it exactly. That's what the vibration does for me. I suspect that at the speeds I ride that the tire is not in danger of sliding out, however, the sensory input causes me to react that way. And if I learned to ignore this, then what would warn me that it REALLY was getting ready to slip? You are right; if the confidence in the tire is lost and if it is lost, then get rid of it. Who knows there may come a time when I may need all the confidence and tire I can get and if such a time came there would be not time for an internal debate.

A pilot is taught to recognize a stall in his particullar aircraft. The stall is preceeded by buffeting. If the buffeting is ignored, then depending on the design of the aircraft the wing may suddenly lose lift and cause the pilot to lose control of the aircraft. Seems to me a motorcycle is the same. I probably would be wise to go to something like Keith Codes Superbike school and learn to recognize and control the bike at the edges of the envelope.
 

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Tires

I have over 14,000 on my E3's.

So far, no sign of cupping and no noise.

I do notice a wear bar down the center of the front tire.

The rear tire is wearing even

I carry 42 lbs rear and 41 lbs front and check it often.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Just took a ride to test the new Bridgestone rear. All of the buzzing vibration in the corners is gone and so is the howl, so it was the cupping that was causing both the vibration and howling, at least as far as my ears are concerned.

While I was at Wingstuff getting the tire mounted, I was looking at a row of about 8 Wings. About 2/3 of them had Stones. The one with the E3's had a squared ridge about an inch wide running around the middle of the front tread. My E3 front looks just like his. This apparently is due to the dual compound with the harder center designed for longer tire wear. I can see how this might work pretty well for riders who have primarily straight roads. I don't think that I am too excited about it for mountain riding. Nevertheless, my current ride the new rear Bridgestone and the E3 with 8,000 miles felt very good. Except for experimentation purposes, I would have been inclined to finish wearing out the E3, however, I want to test a whole new set. Therefore, as soon as I get used to the current feel of the bike, I will replace the front with a 709.

This procedure worked well for me when I put Pirelli Diablos on my Burgman. The rear on it was squared (no cupping) and the front was a little over half worn at 8,000 miles. I immediately noticed a big improvement with the rear Pirelli. The turns were smoother and sharper and the ride smoothed out to the extent you would have thought the rear shocks had been changed. But, when I mounted the front Pirelli, it got even better. The front tire had a much better turn it, was more solid on the freeway, and made the bike feel very agile.

Did I mention that it is a beautiful clear day at 74 degrees? :D Time for another ride.
 

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I think I'm going over to the dark side and put a car tire on the back. From everything I've read here, it seems to be the answer. My front E3 is still good.

Oh, and by the way................

gpick said:
Did I mention that it is a beautiful clear day at 74 degrees? :D Time for another ride.
That was just plain mean! :evil:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
That was just plain mean! Evil or Very Mad
Don't worry too much about it. We'll just order up some mud slides in a month or so in the dead of winter. That will help you feel better.

Meanwhile, we just got back from a ride at 8:30. It was 66. :oops:
 

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I've got just over 9,000 on my rear 70-series E3. It's got lots of tread and no cupping. I literally ripped the tread off of a 70-series Metzler in 7,500 miles.



Maybe there ARE more differences between the 60s and 70s than diameter. Either way, I'll take the E3 and pass on the Metzler. (Now that I can't get an E3, I've ordered the Bridgestone G850/851s, but, it looks like they're backordered as well now. Good thing I ordered them before I needed them!
 

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you need to ride on the sidewalls a little more, what you got is a flat spot due to tire wear in the center of the tire and no wear on the sidewalls, riding a little more agressively will cure that on your next set of tires.
 

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gpick said:
I had 5,000 miles on these when I upgraded my suspension to Traxxion. Since I have had two badly cupped rear tires, it should be interesting to see how the new tires perform with the full Traxxion setup.
I had my E3 for 14000 miles and no cupping at all. I had the full Traxxion set up front and rear the entire time. It definately works.

Chuck
MBD
 

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I was changing my oil yesterday and was looking both OEM tires over. I noticed the front tire had a ridge in the center about 1" wide and then has flat areas running around the tire on each side of the ridge. This freaked me out. Is this the "Dual compound" that I've been reading about? The center wears slower than the sides? They are D250's.

EDIT: On my Round trip to work today, I noticed that with the front tire worn the way it is, the bike is all over the place on the grooved pavement. Not a good feeling at all. On regular superslab it tracks just fine.

Thanks
Matt Caswell
www.thesabrehood.org
 

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K7LVO;

I hope you have your next set in the garage, those are ready for a change; unless thd photo is just making lit look as if they are shot.

prs
 
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