[FL_19 GL1800D]

I'm a Harley convert and have only had my DCT for 8 days. One thing I've learned after a couple of hundred miles is if I learn the modes and how they work I can choose the mode where I feel most comfortable and work within the parameters of the algorithm for that mode. So far Tour mode does the best all-around job for me. I ride conservatively and quite honestly I feel it does a much better job with the shifts than I did when I had a manual Harley. The downshifting is especially smooth. If I roll off the throttle with enough anticipation of the stop I barely have to touch the brakes. I've also opened it up on a few passes and it kicks down when you give it enough juice. I'm very happy with my decision and wouldn't touch a thing. I knew what I was getting. If I'd wanted 100% control over everything I would have purchased the 6MT instead the DCT.

Just my $0.02. YMMV.

 

[FL_19 GL1800D]

I suppose I should provide a bit of background info on myself to help give some perspective on my opinions on this subject and the subject is the interface between the computer the rider and the bike. In the “good old days” we had throttle cables connected directly from our wrist to the butterfly’s and we shifted gears with our toe. Today we have relinquished much of our direct control of the vehicle to the computer via throttle by wire and even shifting by wire as is the case with the DCT. This can be a good thing as long as the computer is “smart” enough but a poorly programmed system can be a major hindrance to a skilled rider. I have been involved with programable throttle by wire for almost 30 yrs now. 30 yrs ago most bikes did not even have fuel injection. If I had to grade Honda on a scale of 1 to 10 on the software for the wing I’m afraid I would have to give them a -2. The fact that the wing performs as well as it does speaks volumes to the goodness of the basic mechanicals of the bike. If the wing had software as good as the bike itself it could realize it’s full potential. To use an analogy, it would be like a contractor building a mansion with the highest skilled tradesmen in the country “the actual bike” and then get bunch of drunken college students to paint it. “the software” I have often considered that it must be extremely frustrating for the engineers at Honda that designed the brilliant mechanical side of the wing only to have it neutered by pin heads on the software side.

This question is not meant with any disrespect or an attempt to "poke the bear". I am simply trying to understand. If as you say, you have an extensive engineering background in throttle by wire systems, you must have been aware of what you consider the shortcomings of the Honda DCT system when you bought the bike. Knowing this, why did you go ahead and purchase the DCT over the 6MT?

 

[FL_19 GL1800D]

I do not have an extensive engineering background but I have worked with programable throttle by wire. From the late 80’s until the early 2000’s I was heavily involved with RC car racing. Some of those years I was a factory sponsored driver and I was fortunate enough to win a couple of championships. RC cars are by default throttle by wire. I was into 1/10 nitro 4wd Touring car racing during the glory years of the sport when it was very popular and our .12 cubic inch racing engines went from just over .5 hp to almost 1.5 hp in just a few years. In the .5 hp era the 4lb cars were still quite fast and reasonably easy to control for a moderately skilled driver. By the time the engines were approaching 1.5 hp our 4lb cars were getting to be absolute rockets that could accelerate from 0 to 60 in about two seconds. By this time the cars were getting very difficult to control at the limit on the road course tracks. Thankfully companies like Futaba and Airtronics had developed computer radio’s with very flexible programable software that allowed us to manipulate the throttle curves in many ways. We could even program the maximum speed the throttle would open and close. We would use these features to help smooth the often less than ideal power characteristics of the 35000rpm engines. As I preordered my 18 I had no way of knowing what the software would perform like but I took comfort in the fact that Honda usually does a very good job of getting things right the first time. The down side for Honda is that when they get it wrong they can’t admit it and correct the situation. The actual physical DCT transmission is so good it still performs better than a manual in spite of the crappy software. It’s just frustrating knowing how much better it could be with well thought out software.

Fair enough. Thanks for elaborating.

 

[FL_19 GL1800D]

I have been thinking about a way to do a practical test to see if there is a difference in full throttle power output between Touring and Sport modes. If you have two Wings you could do a full throttle roll on test. Have one in sport mode and the other in Tour mode, them put them both in manual shift mode and start the roll on at say 2000rpm in 4th gear and see how they compare. Then do the same test again but have both bike switch modes again. If the bike in sport mode wins both roll on test that would be a strong indicator sport mode has more power. I strongly suspect it would be close to even in both roll on test. I have a ridding buddy with an identical bike to mine and we can do this test but unfortunately it’s going to be several months before we can make that happen. If any of you guys have tried a test like this let me know what the results were.

Find a nice warm shop with a dyno, trailer your 'Wing over, do a couple of runs in each mode and compare. Since a dyno measures the time and rate of acceleration to a given engine speed at WOT, you can get your answers and eliminate the variables involved in a 2 bike, 2 rider test. Plus you don't freeze and don't have to wait.

 

[FL_19 GL1800D]

Might have to bring one of these along as I doubt most dyno shops will have one.

DCT Dyno Tool (DCT) - HealTech Electronics Ltd.

The HealTech DCT Dyno Tool activates the dyno mode on DCT equipped Honda motorcycles. Just plug this little tool to the diagnostic connector.

www.healtech-electronics.com

Good point. I don't think another $90 will be an issue given how important this seems to the OP.

 

[FL_19 GL1800D]

OK, my brain now officially hurts. I hope there won't be a test!

 

[FL_19 GL1800D]

No worries. Just wait for the comic book version of this discussion.

Tim

Yup...if it's mechanical I need pictures