[Glockjock]

I just changed the oil in my final drive, and it reminded me of when I lost my original FD years ago. I just thought I’d recap.

The original FD failed at 119,000 miles. I took it to the Beaumont Honda dealer for warranty repair for this was before I knew about so many FD’s on the market. Anyway, we had some discussion about the car tire and trailer hitch, for they thought the Honda rep might not approve warranty work since I used a car tire and pulled a trailer. The shop guys were on my side and argued my case with the rep. Bottom line is that they did replace my FD with a trike takeoff under warranty.

As I said, my bike had 119,000 miles on it when the FD failed. I began using car tires at 30,000 miles, so about 90,000 of those miles were with a CT on the rear. I began pulling my Tailwind full-time at 80,000 miles, so the FD had pulled a trailer about 40,000 miles.

My bike now has 313,000 miles so the replacement rear end has logged about 194,000 miles. Every one of those miles has been with a car tire, and over 185,000 of them have been pulling my Tailwind. The FD is still (knock on wood) doing fine.

I do not believe that using a car tire or pulling a trailer has any effect on the longevity of the final drive.

IMHO of course,
Glen

 

[Capt. Bob]

I just changed the oil in my final drive, and it reminded me of when I lost my original FD years ago. I just thought I’d recap.

The original FD failed at 119,000 miles. I took it to the Beaumont Honda dealer for warranty repair for this was before I knew about so many FD’s on the market. Anyway, we had some discussion about the car tire and trailer hitch, for they thought the Honda rep might not approve warranty work since I used a car tire and pulled a trailer. The shop guys were on my side and argued my case with the rep. Bottom line is that they did replace my FD with a trike takeoff under warranty.

As I said, my bike had 119,000 miles on it when the FD failed. I began using car tires at 30,000 miles, so about 90,000 of those miles were with a CT on the rear. I began pulling my Tailwind full-time at 80,000 miles, so the FD had pulled a trailer about 40,000 miles.

My bike now has 313,000 miles so the replacement rear end has logged about 194,000 miles. Every one of those miles has been with a car tire, and over 185,000 of them have been pulling my Tailwind. The FD is still (knock on wood) doing fine.

I do not believe that using a car tire or pulling a trailer has any effect on the longevity of the final drive.

IMHO of course,
Glen

I agree 100% :thumbup:

 

[awingnut105]

I doubt that anything other than no oil has a lot to do with how long they last. Like anything else, some seem to last forever while others go rather quickly.

 

[rayjoe]

car tires

First let me state that I will never run a car tire on my bikes.

However, I fully agree with Glockjock. I fail to see how a car tire could effect the Final drive. Pulling a trailer should be no problem either unless it's grossly overloaded.

A car tire will make the handling goofy/wonky, (happy now Clamper? >) but people seem to adjust. Trailers also require some adjustment. I've pulled a couple that I built from scratch. I noticed a slight tendency for the trailer to want to push the back of the bike in hard cornering. That's my fault for coming into the corner too hot. A little more effort stopping, but other than those two items, no problems.


Rayjoe

 

[Clamper]

Rayjoe, make it Wonky not Goofy. There is a big difference. :grin2:

 

[Pigeon Roost]

Not all car tires are wonky.

 

[GatorWing]

No it won't harm anything

I just changed the oil in my final drive, and it reminded me of when I lost my original FD years ago. I just thought I’d recap.

The original FD failed at 119,000 miles. I took it to the Beaumont Honda dealer for warranty repair for this was before I knew about so many FD’s on the market. Anyway, we had some discussion about the car tire and trailer hitch, for they thought the Honda rep might not approve warranty work since I used a car tire and pulled a trailer. The shop guys were on my side and argued my case with the rep. Bottom line is that they did replace my FD with a trike takeoff under warranty.

As I said, my bike had 119,000 miles on it when the FD failed. I began using car tires at 30,000 miles, so about 90,000 of those miles were with a CT on the rear. I began pulling my Tailwind full-time at 80,000 miles, so the FD had pulled a trailer about 40,000 miles.

My bike now has 313,000 miles so the replacement rear end has logged about 194,000 miles. Every one of those miles has been with a car tire, and over 185,000 of them have been pulling my Tailwind. The FD is still (knock on wood) doing fine.

I do not believe that using a car tire or pulling a trailer has any effect on the longevity of the final drive.

IMHO of course,
Glen

Glen think about it. The harmful driveline lash when decelerating would only be harmful if the rear wheel was freewheeling off the ground. When the tire is on the ground it can't have deceleration driveline lash.
When going forward with the tire on the ground the engine only notices more torque to rotate due to different diameters of the wheel and more mass. The driveline can't reason whether you are on flatland or a incline.
It is like the old tractor warning. When pulling a load with a tractor use care how you hook the load to the drawbar. The reason for that warning was and still is the tractor doesn't know and can't reason if the wheel is supposed to rotate around the axle or the tractor is supposed to rotate axel 4: . It had killed many who didn't understand that.
The only way Honda or anyone else can say a car tire could harm the driveline is if the tire had a larger diameter than that recommended. It would then put more torque strain on the driveline when accelerating.
I believe Honda only warns against using a car tire is because the fitment to the groove in the rim is not as perfect as the motorcycle tire.
I don't use a car tire only because of handling is a little different but that is just my preference :thumbup:.
Mother Honda and accident attorneys would point to the owners manual as expected.

 

[Bipeflier]

THE FD in my 2005 gave up about 88,000 miles. Only had a CT about 1/4 of those miles but I do pull a trailer about 40% of the time.

Mine failed by the bearing separator on the big bearing broke letting the balls become unequally spaced and cut the seal out. I have blamed it on a bearing made in China.

What has been the mode of FD failures in your experience?

 

[mrbill21]

FD failure

My '05 FD failed at about 105K miles. I replaced the fluid every 20K miles. I never used a car tire, however, pulled a trailer about 20K miles. The seal failed, no noise.??

 

[sur48]

I just changed the oil in my final drive, and it reminded me of when I lost my original FD years ago. I just thought I’d recap.

The original FD failed at 119,000 miles. I took it to the Beaumont Honda dealer for warranty repair for this was before I knew about so many FD’s on the market. Anyway, we had some discussion about the car tire and trailer hitch, for they thought the Honda rep might not approve warranty work since I used a car tire and pulled a trailer. The shop guys were on my side and argued my case with the rep. Bottom line is that they did replace my FD with a trike takeoff under warranty.

As I said, my bike had 119,000 miles on it when the FD failed. I began using car tires at 30,000 miles, so about 90,000 of those miles were with a CT on the rear. I began pulling my Tailwind full-time at 80,000 miles, so the FD had pulled a trailer about 40,000 miles.

My bike now has 313,000 miles so the replacement rear end has logged about 194,000 miles. Every one of those miles has been with a car tire, and over 185,000 of them have been pulling my Tailwind. The FD is still (knock on wood) doing fine.

I do not believe that using a car tire or pulling a trailer has any effect on the longevity of the final drive.

IMHO of course,
Glen

WHEN YOU PUT THE TRAILER LOAD ON FULL TIME THE F/D IT FAILED AT 40K.
I WOULD DEFINITELY SAY YOUR TRAILER BURNED UP YOUR F/D . WITH A LOAD LIKE THAT TRAILER THE HEAT IN THE F/D GEAR WILL HAVE TO BE 25% TO 50% hotter {MAYBE HOTTER} NOT TO SAY YOUR HISTORY ON F/D MAINTENANCE OIL. I WOULD SUSPECT THE NEEDLE BEARINGS WHEN BAD AND IT WOULD BE HARD TO LUBRICATE THIS LITTLE BEARING WITH EXCESSIVE HEAT.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

I just changed the oil in my final drive, and it reminded me of when I lost my original FD years ago. I just thought I’d recap.

The original FD failed at 119,000 miles. I took it to the Beaumont Honda dealer for warranty repair for this was before I knew about so many FD’s on the market. Anyway, we had some discussion about the car tire and trailer hitch, for they thought the Honda rep might not approve warranty work since I used a car tire and pulled a trailer. The shop guys were on my side and argued my case with the rep. Bottom line is that they did replace my FD with a trike takeoff under warranty.

Are you sure it was done under warrantee ??? Replacing a FD with a used unit, does not sound like a warrantee repair. Could it have been no cost to you, and the repair was actually "good will" from the dealer.

In almost all cases, warranty repair is done per Honda's Service Manual. However, occasionally there are exceptions, but not often.

 

[UNCLEJOHN]

are you sure it was done under warrantee ??? Replacing a fd with a used unit, does not sound like a warrantee repair. Could it have been no cost to you, and the repair was actually "good will" from the dealer.

In almost all cases, warranty repair is done per honda's service manual. However, occasionally there are exceptions, but not often.

good point . Wonder if no miles on bike when triked dealer considered new ? Even though was on another vehicle

 

[Glockjock]

WHEN YOU PUT THE TRAILER LOAD ON FULL TIME THE F/D IT FAILED AT 40K.
I WOULD DEFINITELY SAY YOUR TRAILER BURNED UP YOUR F/D . WITH A LOAD LIKE THAT TRAILER THE HEAT IN THE F/D GEAR WILL HAVE TO BE 25% TO 50% hotter {MAYBE HOTTER} NOT TO SAY YOUR HISTORY ON F/D MAINTENANCE OIL. I WOULD SUSPECT THE NEEDLE BEARINGS WHEN BAD AND IT WOULD BE HARD TO LUBRICATE THIS LITTLE BEARING WITH EXCESSIVE HEAT.

SO, you believe that since the FD failed 40,000 miles after I began pulling my Tailwind, the trailer must be the cause of the failure???? If so, why is the replacement FD still working fine after pulling that same trailer over 185,000 miles?

Honda may not approve of trailers or car tires, but I do not believe that either act has any significant effect on the final drive. If it did, then Darksiders or trailer pullers would be overwhelmingly represented in the list of those who had FD failures.


The only reason I posted this is because I've seen it mentioned here that car tires and trailers may cause the FD to fail, and not be covered under warranty.


Glen

 

[#1Blackbetty]

One other factor is the weight difference between the two different tires. R/F car tire is 7-10lbs heavier than a M/C tire. Rotating mass adds additional strain.

 

[Bipeflier]

One other factor is the weight difference between the two different tires. R/F car tire is 7-10lbs heavier than a M/C tire. Rotating mass adds additional strain.

Grasping at straws?

 

[#1Blackbetty]

No, just a proven contributing factor to a driveline problem.

 

[sur48]

One other factor is the weight difference between the two different tires. R/F car tire is 7-10lbs heavier than a M/C tire. Rotating mass adds additional strain.

this is a excellent point. And I may add the car tire with a low profile side wall will increase revolutions = much higher rpms at your cruse speed { 70mph ect} You darksiders how much did your rpms increase ? Oh yea jock your welcome :kiss:

 

[Capt. Bob]

Not to be nit picking but a Bridgestone 704 rear weighs 19 pounds and my Pirelli P1 weighs in at 21 pounds. The P1 is slightly higher when mounted compared to the 704 but I can not tell any difference in the rpm's. When I ran a 195/60-16 non run flat my rpm's were actually lower at speed. I don't think 2 pounds makes much difference.JMHO

 

[sur48]

not to be nit picking but a bridgestone 704 rear weighs 19 pounds and my pirelli p1 weighs in at 21 pounds. The p1 is slightly higher when mounted compared to the 704 but i can not tell any difference in the rpm's. When i ran a 195/60-16 non run flat my rpm's were actually lower at speed. I don't think 2 pounds makes much difference.jmho

the first darksider i met {he tows a coffin trailer} was bragging how it is lower because of the c/t. I just glanced over and notice a low profile tire.

 

[Glockjock]

Sur48, I’m not too sure where this is going but I will respond factually. You implied that my Darkside tire causes a higher cruising rpm. However, it’s a dead heat.

The stock 180/60/16 motorcycle tire has a circumference of 622.4 mm, resulting in 2882 rpm at 70 mph. The 195/55/16 Darkside car tires have a circumference of 621 mm, requiring 2889 rpm at 70 mph. Like I said, dead heat.

As for the car tires being heavier, that is probably correct. The Dunlop E3 on my Goldwing has a listed weight of 21 lbs. The Bridgestone Driveguard runflat car tire I use weighs 25 lbs. The non-runflats that Capt. Bob cites weigh less. His CT weight the same as an E3. In my personal experience the slight weight difference doesn’t seem to have caused any final drive failures.


Glen