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It might be a dumb question but are your aftermarket Traxxion suspensions fully compatible with Honda‘s electronic adjustment?

And are you selling your products in Europe too? Just curious
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
It might be a dumb question but are your aftermarket Traxxion suspensions fully compatible with Honda‘s electronic adjustment?

And are you selling your products in Europe too? Just curious
That's a great question!


Our shocks will be decoupled from the Honda system. We don't believe they should be tied.


We can export to Europe, but the install will take an expert. I can provide guidance via video.
 

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That's a great question!


Our shocks will be decoupled from the Honda system. We don't believe they should be tied.


We can export to Europe, but the install will take an expert. I can provide guidance via video.
Thanks for your fast reply.

But when they are decoupled from the Honda system that means that you have to adjust them manually, right? A little lost of comfort compared to the stock suspensions. There is no way to connect it to the system to keep the comfort?

As the suspensions are a safety related part of a vehicle I assume it needs a kind of European Union certification. Do you know something about that?
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Thanks for your fast reply.

But when they are decoupled from the Honda system that means that you have to adjust them manually, right? A little lost of comfort compared to the stock suspensions. There is no way to connect it to the system to keep the comfort?

As the suspensions are a safety related part of a vehicle I assume it needs a kind of European Union certification. Do you know something about that?
So the video shows how it technically "works".

You will have to see for yourself, in real life that the system doesn't make any perceptible change to the bike. In other words, it might as well not even be there. It was a waste of money.

You will see when you drive one. Stand up in the saddle and bounce the bike while you are riding and run through the modes. Nothing happens that you can feel.

The shocks would need to be redesigned with different tapers on the needles, and WAY more damping for the adjusters to have any effect.

If you have questions about our products, please contact me outside of this post. This post is General Information for the new bike, and I have to respect the forum guidelines.
 

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First, thanks for this explanation it helps.

My observation has been that electronic dampening on motorbikes is only available on more expensive bikes. The least expensive have none at all and up from there you have manually adjustable.

Preload, as you've mentioned is available on most bikes albeit manually and on more expensive bikes there is a motor which is used in some fashion to do the same thing as manually turning and adjustment ring.

As you increase preload, it compresses the main spring but that also has the effect of decreasing the full travel of the shock this means the suspension will be firmer and it is what is changed when you select "Rider", "Two riders" etc. Dampening (allowing more or less oil to flow through the hole) determines how quickly and easily the shock will compress and rebound. More oil flow and the shock will be soft, less oil and it'll be firm. This is what is changed during ride mode.

I disagree with your analogy of music and windscreen height. When I change the ride mode from rain to econ to tour to sport the Wing changes the automatic shift points AND the Dampening. In Rain mode, less dampening for a cushier ride along with lower rpms before shifts.

As a point of reference, my Volvo (which new would be 3 times the cost of a new Wing) does exactly the same thing. When in econ mode, it shifts sooner and the suspension is much softer. Now, the Volvo's antiskid technology is always engaged but that's the case on the Wing I believe, as well. The Volvo also has a "learning mode" for the throttle and I doubt if the Wing has that.

IF these systems were not linked, most people would not know how to set them in either the Wing or Volvo. Only experienced people who really know what they are doing could set them to optimum levels for their use.

Having said all that, I would really like to be able to have a "custom" setting so I could set my own equivalent to "Tour" mode (my shift points would be higher as I like to keep the engine revs a bit higher).
 

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Thanks for showing us that. I agree it looks like a very sensitive "needle valve" with too much gain. I'm glad to have the non-adjustable components.

I do not believe in adjustable shocks for non-racing applications by consumers. You guys have the experience and tools to set them up properly based on the customer's payload and riding habits.

Continue to show us as much data as you can in the vendor section. Thanks.
 

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Honda is not alone in there decision to dumb down the damping adjustments and couple them to particular engine modes. BMW has chosen this path as well and has been met with the same reception by it's users.
 
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Nothing happens that you can feel. The shocks would need to be redesigned with different tapers on the needles, and WAY more damping for the adjusters to have any effect.
I agree. And, big changes that could be easily noticed would likely be WAY too much. Proper adjustments for fine tuning, on well tuned suspension, will be small.
 

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If you have questions about our products, please contact me outside of this post. This post is General Information for the new bike, and I have to respect the forum guidelines.
Yes, you are right. About importing to Europe is too specific for the forum. I might come back with a private message regarding these...

I would like to compare the stock suspensions with yours. As in Germany there isn’t a chance for that... Are there Traxxion dealers in Ontario between Toronto and Niagara Falls to test it on a Gold Wing? My wife is Canadian and once or twice a year we’re visiting her family.

I am not an expert in suspension techniques but open minded and always trying to improve things and getting impressions by myself.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for showing us that. I agree it looks like a very sensitive "needle valve" with too much gain. I'm glad to have the non-adjustable components.

I do not believe in adjustable shocks for non-racing applications by consumers. You guys have the experience and tools to set them up properly based on the customer's payload and riding habits.

Continue to show us as much data as you can in the vendor section. Thanks.
We do have a performance guarantee... but we've only changed spring rates or valving for a handful of riders in thousands and thousands of Wings.

I agree, knobs can be a problem, this isn't the market for them.

You wouldn't believe how lost a professional racer can get when left unattended with fully adjustable suspension!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
As you increase preload, it compresses the main spring but that also has the effect of decreasing the full travel of the shock this means the suspension will be firmer and it is what is changed when you select "Rider", "Two riders" etc.

This isn't true. I don't think you understand how it works.

You are imagining the shock getting shorter. It doesn't.

An internal ring simply compresses the spring on the shock between it's two perches more or less. The extended length of the shock never changes.


On the motorcycle, you will notice the rear of the bike rise or fall. Some people call this ride height adjustment. That's also inaccurate. The ride height may be affected by adding or removing preload, but that's not ride height adjustment.

Only sportbikes have ride height adjustment. This is accomplished through a feature that changes the length of the shock without affecting any other setting on the shock.
 

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This isn't true. I don't think you understand how it works.

You are imagining the shock getting shorter. It doesn't.

An internal ring simply compresses the spring on the shock between it's two perches more or less. The extended length of the shock never changes.


On the motorcycle, you will notice the rear of the bike rise or fall. Some people call this ride height adjustment. That's also inaccurate. The ride height may be affected by adding or removing preload, but that's not ride height adjustment.

Only sportbikes have ride height adjustment. This is accomplished through a feature that changes the length of the shock without affecting any other setting on the shock.
Thanks for the clarification Max. Yes, the total shock length does not change but the travel does decrease as you increase the compression - right?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
First, thanks for this explanation it helps.


IF these systems were not linked, most people would not know how to set them in either the Wing or Volvo. Only experienced people who really know what they are doing could set them to optimum levels for their use.

Having said all that, I would really like to be able to have a "custom" setting so I could set my own equivalent to "Tour" mode (my shift points would be higher as I like to keep the engine revs a bit higher).
The Wing is like 43 years old, and I would love to know if they've been ridden a billion miles yet! In that time, no one has ever needed linked electronic suspension damping adjustment to engine performance.

They been ridden in the rain for millions of miles, and nobody has ever gotten off a Goldwing, laid down on the wet ground and tried to change the rebound damping adjuster on a burning hot shock. It's a problem that doesn't exist.

From my experience, people want their suspension to be "set it and forget it".

And many many people buy fancy shocks with high end adjustments that they'll never touch. So having it doesn't mean it will be used either.

Hope this helps explain it further.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks for the clarification Max. Yes, the total shock length does not change but the travel does decrease as you increase the compression - right?
No, travel never changes.

I think I understand where your confusion lies...

Adding preload affects in what RANGE the bike rides in the shocks travel.... but only slightly. But if you were to go into a G-dip, the bike will still travel down and bottom out.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
This is another area of confusion... spring preload and spring rate are two different things.

Spring preload is how stiff the spring feels in the initial part of its stroke.

Spring rate affects how stiff the spring is all of the way through the stroke.


So: adding preload to a soft spring will not stop it from taking big strokes over bumps or bottoming out.

You would need a higher rate spring.
 

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This is another area of confusion... spring preload and spring rate are two different things.

Spring preload is how stiff the spring feels in the initial part of its stroke.

Spring rate affects how stiff the spring is all of the way through the stroke.


So: adding preload to a soft spring will not stop it from taking big strokes over bumps or bottoming out.

You would need a higher rate spring.

I always thought spring preload was the act of pre-compressing the spring before the actual stroke of the shock even began and was usually adjusted when the shock travel was at its highest point. On traditional shocks this is commonly done by tightening rings with a spanner wrench that are located around the body of the shock while preloading fork springs is commonly done by placing spacers of some sort on top of the fork springs to compress the springs (or "pre load them") before the weight of the bike forces the fork springs to compress when the forks start their travel.
Preloading the shock spring or the fork springs should not effect actual travel of the shock/fork in any fashion as it is done independant of and prior to the spring being compressed during shock stroke/travel.. It does seem that shock travel could be disrupted though if the spring were over compressed and it sacked out in its spring windings but that would be the spring itself bottoming out and not the internals of the shock itself..
 

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This is another area of confusion... spring preload and spring rate are two different things.

Spring preload is how stiff the spring feels in the initial part of its stroke.

Spring rate affects how stiff the spring is all of the way through the stroke.


So: adding preload to a soft spring will not stop it from taking big strokes over bumps or bottoming out.

You would need a higher rate spring.
so if someone would want the softest ride from their new wing they should leave the preload set on rider only. if the ride becomes too harsh because the spring is traveling its full length then a stiffer spring is needed. but this would result in a less soft ride. is this correct?
 
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Discussion Starter #20
I agree. And, big changes that could be easily noticed would likely be WAY too much. Proper adjustments for fine tuning, on well tuned suspension, will be small.

So in MY OPINION.... the reason you can't feel the adjusters do anything, is because the damping in the shocks (especially the front) is so far out of range that it has no effect.

Past that, the travel of the needle is the travel of the adjuster for all intents and purposes. So a fully open needle (it's completely out of the way) is allowing the shock to be as free as the engineer intended it.

Closing the needle against it's seat would give the maximum effect.

But putting a short needle halfway into its bore will produce almost no effect, which is why fully open and half closed don't allow the rider to feel any difference.


The needle and seat combo on this bike would be more noticeable if it started at 50%, went to 25%, and then to 0%.

:shrug:But it doesn't.
 
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