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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, So I now realize that mother Honda tricked us all. They never actually totally fixed the problem with the 1800's running hot, they just installed an "updated ECM" that will keep the temp needle at just under half most of the time. This really burns my butt.! I like to know EXACTLY what my bike is doing. Isn't that why they put gauges (instead of idiot lights )in vehicles in the first place? I want my gauge to read ACCURATE ALL of the time!.

Heres the question: Has anyone found a way to get the gauge to read true? In other words, the needle actually moves through the FULL range, not just teasing you around half way?. I read about one guy re-installing a stock old-style ECM back into his wing and the gauge now works properly. I would prefer to wire a sending unit into the cooling jacket and run the stock gauge off of it. Its really too bad that we even need to go this route but.....
I also want to wire in an extra toggle switch (and relay if needed) to allow me to turn on the electric fans when I want to. Any creative electronics guys out there done either one of these yet???
 

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Certainly not attempting to be argumentative here. What information do you have which leads you to believe your gauge, as it is presently configured, is not accurate?

Mark
 

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Re: Fixing the "fake" temp gauge problem permanent

Wingdreamer said:
I also want to wire in an extra toggle switch (and relay if needed) to allow me to turn on the electric fans when I want to. Any creative electronics guys out there done either one of these yet???
The problem with this is that unless you're going really slow (under say 20mph) running the fans will do no good as they blow the air out the FRONT of the bike after drawing it across the radiator from the sides.

There's a couple of companies selling kits with all new stuff (motors, blades, etc.) needed to draw the fans from the front of the bike, across the radiators and then out the sides. With this arrangement it really doesn't matter HOW fast you're moving. The kits weren't cheap the last time I looked though.

Supposedly, Honda did it the way they did to keep from blowing hot air on the rider.
 

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Well all I know is my temp runs the full gamut. I get real nervous when it reaches the high side. Luckily no puking and I haven't 'overheated'.
 

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Wingdreamer.... Don't think the ECM is fooling the gauge. It's the choke/resistor that was added to the temp gauge line when the ECM update was done. It was a package deal. I think it was to slow the reaction time of the gauge.
 

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WOBBLE OVERHEAT

maybe this overheat issue should be addresed with the wobble class action suit.
 

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I like the gauge in mine... While riding up Pikes Peak, It did move to just under the heavy red line on top. But traffic was heavy and SLOW.

I like the design on the Wing, Moves the hot air away from the rider at stop signs. Pretty neat in my book. If all the hoses are free and not kinked or smashed, it is a very good system. If you ride in slow traffic, keep the RPM's under 2k and it will NEVER over heat !!

JMHO 8)
 

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I thought this topic was settled two years ago after it was beaten to death.

Wingdreamer,

Are you aware that the temp gauges in your cars work just like the one in the Wing?

The ECM has absolutely no control over what the temp gauge reads. The non linear calibration is built into the sensor that is mounted to the engine. The ECM only has a sensor input for adjusting fuel/air mixture. The sensor is actually a dual sensor. One is a linear one that is sent to the ECM, and the other is a non linear one that is sent to the instrument cluster. What you buddy experienced was a placebo effect. He thinks there is a difference, so there is.

His observation is the exact reason why car manufacturers went to non linear gauges 40 years ago. They got sick and tired of customers who were not capable of reading a gauge bringing their vehicles in for warranty service for overheating problems every time the needle on the gauge moved.

If you really want an accurate reading, your only solution is to buy an aftermarket gauge and sensor setup designed for racing.

I don't know how people get through life thinking that everything is a conspiracy. They must lead tortured lives.
 

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Mark01 said:
Certainly not attempting to be argumentative here. What information do you have which leads you to believe your gauge, as it is presently configured, is not accurate?

Mark
Use an infrared thermometer; it reads the same over nearly a 40 degree range of actual use.
But like Larry said, it's supposed to because that is the "normal" operating range.
If you gots to knows what's goin' on, get an aftermarket gauge. It's easier than "fixing" the stocker.
 

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Red said:
Wingdreamer.... Don't think the ECM is fooling the gauge. It's the choke/resistor that was added to the temp gauge line when the ECM update was done. It was a package deal. I think it was to slow the reaction time of the gauge.
Listen to Red,
He sharp on these kind of issues.Terry
Hmmmm suspected innaccuracy with Wing temperature gauges, Speedometer/odometer are out of calibration!! Interesting. Ahh the ole gauge conspiracy, huh? :wink:
 

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Hmm.. mine seems to be operating ok... a couple of times i've been stuck in slow traffic or waiting in line at a drive-thru, and the needle went right up there... on an 05..
 
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Re: WOBBLE OVERHEAT

trplsea said:
maybe this overheat issue should be addresed with the wobble class action suit.
Why?..........did you hear were some lawyers can't make ends meet and want more money to support their already expensive habits while the real issue is forgotten?
 

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Red is correct. Adding a resistor to the harness to recalibrate the sensor was much easier and cheaper than having a new sensor calibration designed. However, it has very little effect on the flat point in the middle of the gauge. it merely changes the temperature that it takes to peg the gauge. The gauges were pegging on the gauge when the engine was not at the overheat point. Keep in mind that we talking about a minor recalibration here.

The following drawing is one that I drew up a couple of years ago using the data that Honda supplied to the NHTSA showing them what affect the calibration would have on the gauge. The curve is the same. Only the indicated point on the gauge has changed. Note that our gauge does not have any numbers on it.
 

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Larry; that is a neat job you did there. By your work, the sweet spot that our older unimproved bikes have covers 159 through 217 degrees F, right? Redline begins at 251, continues through the predicted boil-over of 270 (pretty optomistic with typical 50:50 isn't it) and the needle continues until buried at some higher point. Works fo rme.

prs
 

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Before the product improvement was done to my '02, the needle began to climb at about 196 degrees (as measured by infrared on radiator exterior). After improvement, it was about 210 degrees.
In all the time that I worked at a dealership I never saw a head damaged by overheating; not even Doug from Miami that had complete blockage of one side from wire harness electrolosis.
 

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Pidgeon Roost,
As Bill stated, the drawing is the "after" improvement. not the unimproved gauge.
I also had a chart for the "before" temperatures, but I can't find it. With the old readings, the gauge would hit red at about 230-235 degrees (if I remember correctly) . The red area on a gauge typically means that you need to take action to cool the bike down. 235 degrees really isn't that hot, even though the gauge indicated impending boilover. This created a lot of unnecessary anxiety in riders.

While I can certainly understand the argument that says if you are going to give me a gauge I want it to accurately tell me the temperature at all times, that is an unrealistic expectation because that is not what the gauge is for. . It is not a diagnostic tool. It is only designed to give the rider enough information to tell if the bike is operating within a safe range, and it does just that.

On my bike, before the upgrade the needle would begin to move past midpoint and rise to about 3/4 on the gauge. Now, it rarely ever budges past midpoint even in the harshest riding conditions. But then again, I don't climb steep mountains at 20 mph which some people claim they do on a regular basis for some reason. :shock:

I have no doubt that there were many bikes that did indeed overheat when this problem was at its peak. The tests that were performed during the upgrade show that there were a number of manufacturing problems that were causing the problem, not the inherent design problem that so many people claim. I also feel that the vast majority of riders were simply panicking and really didn't have a problem. The innacurate gauge compounded the problem.

Every vehicle has an achilles heel and apparently riding at 15 mph in high heat for extended periods was far more common than Honda anticipated. By increasing the size of the fans and the radiators they addressed that "stagnant air" problem on the newer bikes.

The biggest problem by far in this whole mess was Honda's refusal to acknowledge that some bikes did indeed have problems and try to just ingnore it hoping it would go away. When they did that, the uproar exploded in their face well beyond how bad the problem really was. You would hope they would learn from the mistake, but I doubt it. They have operated like this for decades.
 

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maybe this overheat issue should be addresed with the wobble class action suit.
it already was and was settled 3 years ago. Unless you specifically notified the court that you did not want to be included in the class, you forfeited your right to sue again per the terms of the settlement.
 

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THanks for the clarification Larry; I hope you find your chart for future reference - like I said, neat job.

Yesterday it was a balmy 72 to 76 degrees here abouts. A real treat. I took the day off and rode to some areas I had yet to explore close by. Went down through the eastern Kentucky foot hillls and turned east into western Virginia. Nice meandering roads, nice scenery. One of my side trips coursed through several miles of 15 to 20 mph paved trails through The Breaks Interstate Park. Roadways all covered with damp leaves and grades just enough to require that you stay in 1st quite a bit, second aat best. Even at that relativley cool temp, my needle floated at about 3/4 full scale most of time. I realize that that represents a coolent temp well within normal rnage and didn't worry one bit. Since my coolent does not boil even when needle is burried for a good while (Evans NPG+) I don't and won't worry much about it unless the engine seems hot, which it never really has even though I have pegged it a few times on gravel roads and mountain trails. The engine and tranny stays nice and cool although the radiator is tossing off huge heat, just like it should. Uninproved '02.

prs
 

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LarryM said:
But then again, I don't climb steep mountains at 20 mph which some people claim they do on a regular basis for some reason. :shock:
I didn't either until I discovered Ebbetts Pass. Saw the upper end of the gauge there.

Thanks for the information.
 
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