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Discussion Starter #1
This one got its air filter changed every 12,000 miles or sooner.
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This one did not
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For anyone who do not think Honda's maintenance recommendations are correct, this would be a great time to share about it.
 

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Agree air filters need to be changed, but not because dirty air filters make dirty engines.

Dirty filters decrease flow. For oil filters, there's a bypass valve to keep the engine from burning up when the filter gets clogged and starts to flow less. For air filters, there is no bypass, they just get dirty and allow less air through. It will definitely cause decreased performance from the engine, but unless an air filter is damaged where it stops filtering, a dirty filter doesn't really allow more dirt in an engine.

Then again, if you don't change a filter for 50K miles, how would you know if it was damaged or not so regular changes are still very necessary.

PS...K&N filters do let a lot more dirt in. A bike with that filter will end up looking like that even if you service the filter often. They flow more air by filtering less....so they flow more dirt too.
 

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Damn, the motor in the first pic looks new! Question, do our motors have a changeable PCV valve like cars? That looks more like a crankcase ventilation problem moreso than an air filter problem.
 

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Damn, the motor in the first pic looks new! Question, do our motors have a changeable PCV valve like cars? That looks more like a crankcase ventilation problem moreso than an air filter problem.
Bingo.

The service interval for the crank case breather is every 4000 miles. For some reason nobody ever mentions it here. Everything is always blamed on the air filter.
 

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Awww... dang... now you made me change my air filter this weekend... 😕

Thanks for the reminder and great advice
 
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How many miles on each bike?
 

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Mileage on each bike would be good to know.
 

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Bingo.

The service interval for the PCV is every 4000 miles. For some reason nobody ever mentions it here. Everything is always blamed on the air filter.
Thanks. You got me curious so I looked through the service manual and I only see the breather hose and no mention of a PCV valve itself. Am I missing something?
 

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The 2018+ air cleaner change interval has gone to 16,000 miles (25,000km), however there is no instruction as to how to change it in the owners manual and a quick call to my dealer indicates its $400 so thanks Honda.
 

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This one got its air filter changed every 12,000 miles or sooner. View attachment 375426

This one did not
View attachment 375427 View attachment 375428

For anyone who do not think Honda's maintenance recommendations are correct, this would be a great time to share about it.
That’s cooked oil from infrequent changes or inferior oil. Nothing to do with a dirty air filter though negligence of oil changes may go hand in hand with air filter neglect.

 

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On this dirt air filter = dirty engine interior and synthetic oil burns clutches - Greg's opinions remain inconvertible. I don't hold that against him and would without question utilize his services if geographically possible and certainly seek his advice when needed. Having certain opinions doesn't negate the greater good he brings to the table! Thank you for all you do here and in your shop Greg!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The 2018+ air cleaner change interval has gone to 16,000 miles (25,000km), however there is no instruction as to how to change it in the owners manual and a quick call to my dealer indicates its $400 so thanks Honda.
Unfortunately GL1800s, 5th and 6th gen Wings, are a very expensive m/c to properly maintain. If I was not in the business or maintaining and repairing them, I wouldn't be able to afford one.
 

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For air filters, there is no bypass, they just get dirty and allow less air through. It will definitely cause decreased performance from the engine, but unless an air filter is damaged where it stops filtering, a dirty filter doesn't really allow more dirt in an engine.
Man I wish the were true. If it were I'd only change my home HVAC filter a couple times a year. However, at least in my home, if I don't change it frequently, everything in my home gets dusty ... I mean really dusty.
 

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Awww... dang... now you made me change my air filter this weekend... 😕

Thanks for the reminder and great advice
I'm glad to hear that. Over the years, one by one, influencing riders to maintain their Wing is much of why I write what I do. Following every line and doing all the checks in a maintenance schedule is by far the cheapest way to maintain a Wing.
 

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Man I wish the were true. If it were I'd only change my home HVAC filter a couple times a year. However, at least in my home, if I don't change it frequently, everything in my home gets dusty ... I mean really dusty.
Then you have an unfiltered alternate return air supply in your home AC. Might not be supposed to be that way but if your system still flows air but starts getting dusty, it has to be getting air past the filter.. Mine just stops cooling because it can't flow enough air because the filter stops all the flow and then the system over works itself and freezes up.

Anyway..if you think about it, filters filter by having holes small enough to catch particles but large enough to flow air.. Dirty filters filter even better because the dirt makes the holes even smaller.....but they restrict flow, so they hurt performance.

This is why those oil filters were failing your pressure test when they got a lot of miles on them, they start filtering too well and restrict flow.

But hey...we both agree you should change filters regularly if you want your engine, or AC, to function properly.
 

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Anyway..if you think about it, filters filter by having holes small enough to catch particles but large enough to flow air.. Dirty filters filter even better because the dirt makes the holes even smaller.....but they restrict flow, so they hurt performance.
That's all great in theory, but I'm referring to real world. Unfortunately it doesn't quite work that way with an internal combustion engine. Those particles that land in a filter live in an ever changing extremely torrential environment. Sometimes they have little airflow trying to push them further into the filter, sometimes much more so. In either case, particles stack up behind them and the changing air flow causes those particles to rip and tear their way through the media. The same is very true with an oil filter. Sometime I post pictures of main/rod bearings showing the same.

To test, don't change your air filter.
 

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my filter after 30,000 miles, and I'm a service freak on my bike
All I know is that I have mice hiding in my garage with rotted out teeth.....

Ronnie IMG_0863.JPG
 

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That's all great in theory, but I'm referring to real world. Unfortunately it doesn't quite work that way with an internal combustion engine. Those particles that land in a filter live in an ever changing extremely torrential environment. Sometimes they have little airflow trying to push them further into the filter, sometimes much more so. In either case, particles stack up behind them and the changing air flow causes those particles to rip and tear their way through the media. The same is very true with an oil filter. Sometime I post pictures of main/rod bearings showing the same.

To test, don't change your air filter.
But where you get in the ditch for the house HVAC example you are comparing two completely different situations and believe them the same.

The internal combustion engine inlet tract is kept separate from air circulating in the “house”. Analogous to a house, the engine inlet tract feeds filtered air only into the “furnace” of combustion chambers which are tightly sealed from the rest of enclosed engine spaces then the burnt gases pass out of the furnace through the “chimney” of exhaust pipes. There is no way for inlet tract air to mix with and/or settle on surfaces outside of the combustion chambers until it passes out the exhaust ports.

In an engine with low compression values from worn or sticking rings some gases escape into the “house” for the pvc valve or blowby collection tube to deal with but the engine is running poorly from low compression and incomplete combustion.
 

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But where you get in the ditch for the house HVAC example you are comparing two completely different situations and believe them the same.

The internal combustion engine inlet tract is kept separate from air circulating in the “house”. Analogous to a house, the engine inlet tract feeds filtered air only into the “furnace” of combustion chambers which are tightly sealed from the rest of enclosed engine spaces then the burnt gases pass out of the furnace through the “chimney” of exhaust pipes. There is no way for inlet tract air to mix with and/or settle on surfaces outside of the combustion chambers until it passes out the exhaust ports.

In an engine with low compression values from worn or sticking rings some gases escape into the “house” for the pvc valve or blowby collection tube to deal with but the engine is running poorly from low compression and incomplete combustion.
Contamination getting past the filter will get pass the rings too, thus the dirt on the inside of the engine. The contamination works like sand paper on the rings and cylinder walls. Over time, the situation gets worst. The engine with contamination will become a faster oil burner. The contamination settles on the "ledges and selves" inside the engine as see in the 2nd picture above. Again, if you don't think this happens, then explain why a manufacture would use an air filter at all ??? In the past, air filters were used for 2 reasons. First was to protect the engine from particles entering the combustion area, and second to protect carburetor passages from getting plugged. Reason #2 really doesn't exist any longer. On 5th gens, it's all about protecting particles from entering the combustion chamber, then getting past the rings, and causing excessive wear.
 
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