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Unfortunately GL1800s, 5th and 6th gen Wings, are a very expensive m/c to properly maintain. If I was not in the business or maintaining and repairing them, I wouldn't be able to afford one.
I don't mind the expense of maintaining my Wing, I just want to make sure I'm doing it correctly and not missing anything. I do have the service manual to help in this task, but I must be missing something as I found the breather hose but no mention of a PCV valve. Is there one on the 2018+?
 

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Discussion Starter #22
I don't mind the expense of maintaining my Wing, I just want to make sure I'm doing it correctly and not missing anything. I do have the service manual to help in this task, but I must be missing something as I found the breather hose but no mention of a PCV valve. Is there one on the 2018+?
5th and 6th gen Wings do not have a conventional "PCV / breather filter" system. By todays standards, a PCV system is antiquated or mechanically controlled by the spring pressure in the PCV. Almost everything having todo with todays emissions is computer controlled and no longer mechanical.

To replace the PCV/breather filter system, Honda just uses the natural sucking of the air box to suck in any blow-by from the crankcase. If blow-by includes moisture, or excessive oil, it collects in the bottom of the air box, pools, and spills or drips into a drain hose. The drain hose is capped, and Honda calls removing the cap "cleaning the breather." A PAIR system is a computer controlled EGR valve that re-burns, burnt exhaust gasses. Basically, computer controlled fuel injection, and computer controlled precision spark control, makes for a nearly perfect running engine compared to constantly wearing points and condenser, and a carburetor that always needs adjusted from years past. Even when they run poorly, they still start and run very well.
 

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5th and 6th gen Wings do not have a conventional "PCV / breather filter" system. By todays standards, a PCV system is antiquated or mechanically controlled by the spring pressure in the PCV. Almost everything having todo with todays emissions is computer controlled and no longer mechanical.

To replace the PCV/breather filter system, Honda just uses the natural sucking of the air box to suck in any blow-by from the crankcase. If blow-by includes moisture, or excessive oil, it collects in the bottom of the air box, pools, and spills or drips into a drain hose. The drain hose is capped, and Honda calls removing the cap "cleaning the breather." A PAIR system is a computer controlled EGR valve that re-burns, burnt exhaust gasses. Basically, computer controlled fuel injection, and computer controlled precision spark control, makes for a nearly perfect running engine compared to constantly wearing points and condenser, and a carburetor that always needs adjusted from years past. Even when they run poorly, they still start and run very well.
Thanks for the explanation, it is very helpful as I was losing my mind being stuck in the past.:) I know from past experiences some EGR systems are prone to coking and clogging. So it it seems the 4,000 mile interval consists of draining the air box. Seems simple. Thanks.
 

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Contamination getting past the filter will get pass the rings too, thus the dirt on the inside of the engine. The contamination works like sand paper on the rings and cylinder walls. Over time, the situation gets worst. The engine with contamination will become a faster oil burner. The contamination settles on the "ledges and selves" inside the engine as see in the 2nd picture above. Again, if you don't think this happens, then explain why a manufacture would use an air filter at all ??? In the past, air filters were used for 2 reasons. First was to protect the engine from particles entering the combustion area, and second to protect carburetor passages from getting plugged. Reason #2 really doesn't exist any longer. On 5th gens, it's all about protecting particles from entering the combustion chamber, then getting past the rings, and causing excessive wear.
I believe in air filters and I believe in preventive maintenance. We completely agree there.

I just don't believe the pictures you post of carmelized oil, varnish, and sludge inside engine spaces are because the air filter isn't changed at 12,000 miles and the deposits are dirt that gets forced through a clogged air filter and the home HVAC example of dust in the house is whacky.

I've had a few motorcycles I ran well over 100,000 miles and one almost to 200,000 and cars of course. In general I overchange oil and stretch air filter replacement intervals by up to 50 or 100%. I justify the latter based on where I live and where I ride and 50 years experience in this climate. I've also maintained boats for 40 years and they as a rule have spark arrestors but no air filter in the conventional sense. The engine interior spaces I've seen in these engines are squeaky clean. I'll never do it but if the situation was reversed and I changed air filters twice as often as recommended but doubled oil change intervals I'd probably see interior spaces like the pictures you posted.
 

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"In general I overchange oil and stretch air filter replacement intervals by up to 50 to 100%. "
Why should anyone do this? Is it because we are inherently lazy or just too thrifty?
How about Brake and Clutch fluids? The service manual calls for 12 months or 12 thousand miles.
Isn't one service interval the same as another when it comes to preventive maintenance? Where do you draw the line?
It just seems to me that following the factory service manual is the best course of action no mater what you are working on.
 

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"In general I overchange oil and stretch air filter replacement intervals by up to 50 to 100%. "
Why should anyone do this? Is it because we are inherently lazy or just too thrifty?
How about Brake and Clutch fluids? The service manual calls for 12 months or 12 thousand miles.
Isn't one service interval the same as another when it comes to preventive maintenance? Where do you draw the line?
It just seems to me that following the factory service manual is the best course of action no mater what you are working on.
No, overchanging means I change engine oil around 5000 miles instead of 8000 and going 16 to 24,000 miles on air filters instead of 12,000 miles. I always R & R hydraulic fluids at 12,000 miles or one year. I ride enough I'm usually doing it by miles. Honda linked brakes are intolerant of not keeping to this recommendation. In fact the 'inherently lazy and thrifty' forced Honda into an involuntary recall to replace the 2001 - 2012 Goldwing's original secondary master cylinder that worked just fine if the fluids were replaced as recommended.

If one's gifts from our Creator do not include mechanical ability or more importantly mechanical sympathy along with ability they are better off sticking exactly to service recommendations. As an aside, my dad was a mechanic and I learned from a master. In part of his career he wrote technical orders for aircraft propulsion systems. In the field they learned things that the manufacturer had not foreseen or designed for and these TOs more or less amended manufacturers recommended service intervals or TBOs - time between overhauls. I learned wrenching and critical thought from him and he never took a car or motorcycle to anyone unless it was body damage.
 

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Greg, what these guys are saying (and they are right, BTW) is that just because a filter is dirty doesn't mean that is is passing dirty air to the combustion process. A used filter actually filters better than a clean one. Your analogy of the house AC system is apples and oranges. They are not the same.

Now, if a filter were to get so bad that that the pressure drop across the filter were to destroy the filter, than all bets are off. I have a feeling that the engine would probably be starving for air long before that point.

Glen
 

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5th and 6th gen Wings do not have a conventional "PCV / breather filter" system. By todays standards, a PCV system is antiquated or mechanically controlled by the spring pressure in the PCV. Almost everything having todo with todays emissions is computer controlled and no longer mechanical.

To replace the PCV/breather filter system, Honda just uses the natural sucking of the air box to suck in any blow-by from the crankcase. If blow-by includes moisture, or excessive oil, it collects in the bottom of the air box, pools, and spills or drips into a drain hose. The drain hose is capped, and Honda calls removing the cap "cleaning the breather." A PAIR system is a computer controlled EGR valve that re-burns, burnt exhaust gasses. Basically, computer controlled fuel injection, and computer controlled precision spark control, makes for a nearly perfect running engine compared to constantly wearing points and condenser, and a carburetor that always needs adjusted from years past. Even when they run poorly, they still start and run very well.
The wings don’t have a EGR valve because exhaust gas is not recirculated to be reburned. They do have a PAIR control solenoid valve and a PAIR check valve. Filtered air from the airbox passes through the PAIR control solenoid valve and is drawn into the exhaust port were it promotes the burning of unturned exhaust gases. The PAIR control solenoid valve is controlled by the PGM FI unit and the PAIR check valve prevents reverse flow through the system.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
"In general I overchange oil and stretch air filter replacement intervals by up to 50 to 100%. "
Why should anyone do this? Is it because we are inherently lazy or just too thrifty?
How about Brake and Clutch fluids? The service manual calls for 12 months or 12 thousand miles.
Isn't one service interval the same as another when it comes to preventive maintenance? Where do you draw the line?
It just seems to me that following the factory service manual is the best course of action no mater what you are working on.
Good points ... especially when one considers what happens when owners were not changing their brake fluid per Honda's recommendations. There were 3 Service Bulletins over it SB 20, 22, and 23. Possibly SB-16 too. Other related symptoms from not following Honda's 12,000 mile brake fluid change was failing anti-dive valves.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
The wings don’t have a EGR valve because exhaust gas is not recirculated to be reburned. They do have a PAIR control solenoid valve and a PAIR check valve. Filtered air from the airbox passes through the PAIR control solenoid valve and is drawn into the exhaust port were it promotes the burning of unturned exhaust gases. The PAIR control solenoid valve is controlled by the PGM FI unit and the PAIR check valve prevents reverse flow through the system.
I stand corrected, you are correct regarding the PAIR valve system.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
A used filter actually filters better than a clean one. Your analogy of the house AC system is apples and oranges. They are not the same.

Glen
The cabin filter in my Toyota does the same. If I don't replace it frequently, my passenger compartment gets real dusty too. I also notice slower a/c cool down time in the summer. Hopefully, you can relate to that example better.
 

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The cabin filter in my Toyota does the same. If I don't replace it frequently, my passenger compartment gets real dusty too. I also notice slower a/c cool down time in the summer. Hopefully, you can relate to that example better.
Yes, I understand, can relate, and could explain your examples but I'll pass. It is just like discussing politics with someone of different beliefs, for it's just not going anywhere. I still believe that I would bring my bike to you for service for you are a meticulous mechanic. Have a good one!

Glen
 

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The cabin filter in my Toyota does the same. If I don't replace it frequently, my passenger compartment gets real dusty too. I also notice slower a/c cool down time in the summer. Hopefully, you can relate to that example better.
As the cabin filter gets plugged air in the passenger compartment doesn't get pulled to and through the filter as it would with a clean filter, hence more of your 'new" dust lingers in the passenger compartment. The A/C evaporator and heater core beyond the filter don't see any more dust than they normally do. What people don't see is the black mold o_O that grows on the A/C evaporator coils, but that's not the issue here.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
As the cabin filter gets plugged air in the passenger compartment doesn't get pulled to and through the filter as it would with a clean filter, hence more of your 'new" dust lingers in the passenger compartment. The A/C evaporator and heater core beyond the filter don't see any more dust than they normally do. What people don't see is the black mold o_O that grows on the A/C evaporator coils, but that's not the issue here.
But that just depends if I set it for recirculating cabin air, or incoming outside are. In either case, we still have a filter that does its job by filtering almost all the particles out of the air. Those trapped particles still try and rip, force, shoulder, and tear their way thru the filter. Not everything stays trapped. As small tears and passageways occur, the filter allows more particles to pass.
 

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Maybe we can turn this broken record into a learning opportunity.




 

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But that just depends if I set it for recirculating cabin air, or incoming outside are. In either case, we still have a filter that does its job by filtering almost all the particles out of the air. Those trapped particles still try and rip, force, shoulder, and tear their way thru the filter. Not everything stays trapped. As small tears and passageways occur, the filter allows more particles to pass.
There's no question that a vehicle air filter will allow some minute particles to pass through, otherwise how would the molecules that comprise air pass through? Air passes through the filter by the pressure difference generated by the piston on the intake (vacuum) stroke and atmospheric pressure. Both are limited, hence the force through the filter is limited. Is the force sufficient to allow dirt particles to rip through? I suppose it depends upon the quality of the air filter. IMHO a clogged air filter causes greater issues for the engine by limiting the air needed for a "clean" combustion of the fuel. While most modern vehicle engines, like the Goldwing, have built-in complex fuel/air management systems to maintain a clean, most efficient burning of the fuel, they do have their limitations. An engine will not run at all without fuel, but what happens when there is insufficient air (oxygen) to maintain clean, complete, most efficient combustion? It appears the built-in fuel-air management system will allow the engine to continue to run. What then happens to the fuel that has not been completely burned? Does it all get pushed through the exhaust valve or does some get pushed pass the piston rings into the lubrication system where it will mix the oil and cause the build-up of gunk we see in the pictures you posted? The key to all this as you frequently and correctly point out is the diligent performance of the manufacturer's recommended maintenance.
 
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