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Discussion Starter #1
It has been suggested here--and I have used the technique--that after an oil change or after a bike sits for an extended period, you should twist the throttle to full open, press start, and let it crank over for about 5 seconds. For those who don't know, the Wing won't actually start like this. I believe the rationale is to get some oil pumped through the engine from the pan, so that when you release the throttle and proceed to actually start the engine, it isn't a fully 'dry' engine. This sounds logical but here's my rub with this.

If you do not use this full throttle pre-start technique and just start the bike after an extended period, won't it take just as long for the oil to get where it needs to be to do its job? So what if the rotational force is coming from combustion and the running engine, instead of from the external starter motor? It's going to take the same number of revolutions to get the drained oil up to where it needs to be, whether you let the running engine do it or do the pre-start full throttle technique.

Am I right about this? After I thought about this for a while I concluded all I'm doing with the full throttle pre-start technique is putting a little extra wear on my starter button, switch, and battery. Or am I missing something?
 

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It seems to me that a revolution is a revolution, both should be turning the oil pump. The difference is if it starts or not. I don't see an advantage in the full throttle technique.
Beside you can never get that 5 second back.
Do you recall where you found out about this full throttle technique? I never heard of it before in any other posts that I have read on any forum.
Just curious where this came from.
 

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Very little stress on the moving parts in the engine when using the starter. Probably less than 200 rpm no load versus 1200 rpm.
Also let's the oil fill the filter.
I've done this on every GW I've owned. I think Fred H agreed with this procedure.

There have been quite a few posts about this on the site.

Here's one of them:
 

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I would not waste a second worrying about it. Just start it up.
 

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After watching a guy fill his oil filter to the max, as best as he could, I have been doing it also with all my engines when changing my oil. You will lose some oil with horizontal installed filters but your oil pump doesn't have to fill it first before it starts pumping it thru the system. Seems like a good idea to me. And why won't the bike start with the throttle held all the way open?
 

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After watching a guy fill his oil filter to the max, as best as he could, I have been doing it also with all my engines when changing my oil. You will lose some oil with horizontal installed filters but your oil pump doesn't have to fill it first before it starts pumping it thru the system. Seems like a good idea to me. And why won't the bike start with the throttle held all the way open?
Doesn't the oil filter get the oil returned by the pump, not by the intake side of the pump? The pump intake has a screen on the intake side. So isn't filling the filter kind of is a waste of effort?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Do you recall where you found out about this full throttle technique? I never heard of it before in any other posts that I have read on any forum.
Just curious where this came from.
As I said, here on this site. Before you joined I'm guessing.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Very little stress on the moving parts in the engine when using the starter. Probably less than 200 rpm no load versus 1200 rpm.
Also let's the oil fill the filter.
These are both time related. At 1200 rpm you're just turning it all over 6x as fast, oil or no oil present. This is precisely why I'm asking the question. Unless I'm misunderstanding your comment, the no load on the starter comment isn't relevant(?).
 

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Discussion Starter #10
After watching a guy fill his oil filter to the max, as best as he could, I have been doing it also with all my engines when changing my oil. You will lose some oil with horizontal installed filters but your oil pump doesn't have to fill it first before it starts pumping it thru the system. Seems like a good idea to me. And why won't the bike start with the throttle held all the way open?
Filling the oil filter manually isn't really the question here. The ECM controls/safeguards the start set up so it won't start at full open throttle. IIRC that is in the owners' manual.
 

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Well,
First off, I don't recall ANY instructions in the owners manual stipulating that any such practice be done, after an oil change, whether or not the bike's been sitting for an extended period or not. I have never done such a thing and, my Wing engine is still alive, after numerous REGULAR starting procedures after oil changes. And, like others have stated, this is the VERY FIRST time I've ever heard of such a procedure. Pretty much doubt there's any validity to it. Otherwise, in the 7,00000000000000 threads about oil changes/oil types/filter types etc. that have been discussed on here in the last couple of decades, it would have been mentioned AT LEAST ONCE. Your bike, your choice.
Scott
 

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I have read about that idea on this board many times but never actually tried it, I’m sure if it was such a good idea it would be mentioned in the owners manual and if it is I have never noticed it. Yes when I start my bike after an oil change it does take a couple seconds for the oil light to shut off but I don’t worry about that at all.
 

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I put 222,903 miles on a GL1500 engine and never filled the oil filter when changing the oil and filter. No issues.....;)

Never wasted my time filling the filter first....!!!!
 

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...after an oil change or after a bike sits for an extended period, ... and proceed to actually start the engine... so that ... it isn't a fully 'dry' engine.
The engine is not "dry". The oil that was providing lubricity is exactly where you left it before an oil change or storage. Most shop manuals will indicate 3 numbers for oil capacity.
Draining: 3.5 L
Filter Change: 3.7 L
Disassembly: 4.4 L

So basically, after an oil and filter change there is .7 L of oil remaining in the engine (about 23 ounces or 16% of the total oil.)

I might be concerned that "full throttle" non-start may be flooding the cylinders with fuel and washing oil away if I used that procedure.

G.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
The engine is not "dry". The oil that was providing lubricity is exactly where you left it before an oil change or storage. Most shop manuals will indicate 3 numbers for oil capacity.
Draining: 3.5 L
Filter Change: 3.7 L
Disassembly: 4.4 L
So basically, after an oil and filter change there is .7 L of oil remaining in the engine (about 23 ounces or 16% of the total oil.)

I might be concerned that "full throttle" non-start may be flooding the cylinders with fuel and washing oil away if I used that procedure.
Two things here: Thanks for the numbers on where the oil is actually at in a motor. I didn't or couldn't articulate that as well as you did when I loosely used the word "dry" to get my meaning across. But I agree--it's still in there so cranking the engine isn't doing much and this is precisely why I asked the question.
The other thing is, and I don't know if this is a fact, but I think there is no fuel moving with the pre-start technique. When I've done it, then followed it with a real start, the engine always catches immediately, runs normally immediately, and there is no cloud of unburned fuel out of the tailpipes.
 

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Since the oil pump is going to be more efficient at higher rpm I don't believe there would be any practical difference between just starting the engine as Honda recommends or priming the system through cold cranking.
 

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It's and oil filter and oil gallery fill technique. It's applicable to any engine but more applicable to an engine rebuild than an oil change. I don't do it but I'm careful not to open the throttle until after the oil light goes out. Although there is oil within the system, when the bike starts the air in the filter travels along the oil gallery and displaces the trapped oil followed, of course, by the new oil after the filter is filled. It's always the case and for this reason it's reckoned that most engine wear takes place during engine start up before the oil pressure has time to build.

After prolonged storage on a Wing I doubt it's an issue because the oil filter is level with the sump oil so there will be very little drain back.

However, I think the principle is good. I once owned a General Motors van which used a screw on filter without a rubber anti-drain ring in the oil filter, it rattled it's bigend bearings on every start up. It needed new bigend shells at 27k along with a new oil pump. But, here's an interesting thing - I owned this van for many years and during this time Castrol 'invented' GTX Magnatec oil which claimed to adhere to bearing surfaces to overcome the lack of lubrication during startup while oil pressure built up, I tried it and continued to use it throughout that van's life and it never tapped it's bigends again. True story, make of it what you will !
 

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… I think there is no fuel moving with the pre-start technique...
I am no expert on modern engines, but I was thinking the WOT procedure (flooded) is used to get as much air as possible to the fuel soaked plugs. My old school engines WOT sucks more air and some fuel and that clears the flood. In older engines the spark was cut at WOT. So in these engines is the fuel supply also cutoff at WOT? In that case no unburned fuel.
 

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Frankly, everything people worry about regarding engine oil is silly. The only true measurement of ANY oil subject would be to operate the exact same engine, by the exact same owner, in the exact same conditions, and then do the same with the "special" way people come up with. And that is impossible. Just put oil in the bike, do oil changes when recommended, and stop worrying about it. You will never know if you did it right or wrong. Just ride the bike. Wow, ......people have way too much time on their hands.
 
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