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Discussion Starter #1
I posted this under another topic. Sorry if you have already read this. Topster is getting his frame replaced by Honda. Honda said "Good will" because there is a trailer hitch. They don't have to waranty bikes with trailer hitchs. Lets see then the trailer companies are also at fault for selling us trailers that they know are going to be used on GL1800's. Also the trailer hitch companies are at fault for makeing hitchs that for
GL1800's. Then we are at fault for putting the hitchs on the bikes. Honda has NO fault for bad frames because they told us DO NOT PULL A TRAILER. Lets see if Honda puts a sticker on the bikes that there is no waranty if bikes that are ridden then they will save a lot of money because there will be no waranty work. OH I forgot they also won't sell any bikes.
 

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well, it does say in the owners manual not to pull a trailer. On the other hand, Honda would have to prove that pulling a trailer was the cause of the frame failure to legally void the warranty. I'm not an attorney, but I think Honda is blowing smoke here.
 

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Before we all get TOO riled up, let's remember that Honda has not yet denied a repair because of a trailer hitch.

In fact, we have here a case where they explicitly DID take care of the problem, even with the trailer hitch in place.

Roy
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yes they did but I don't like the Honda Rep saying that it was GOOD WILL because there was a trailer hitch on the bike. Sorry about my spelling today. I am trying to do too many things at once. I need to slow down & check what I write.
 

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Ironbutt

They havn't taken care of it completly yet. They have moved very quickly so far and no one can fault them for that. Let's see how long it is before I get my bike back and what condition it will be in. I am looking into my insurance as far as coverage is concerned, title and what will be the status of that, and my additions to the bike that must be taken off and then moved to new frame etc etc etc. The dealer had told me they will replace frame, I have heard nothing from Honda Motor Corp yet. I expect in a day or so that I will get some type of official word that Honda will authorize frame replacement. If anyone else gets in this situation and has to deal with this problem, you will find out everything is not black and white, nor cut and dry. :?
 

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Warranty

Bluewing and all,

I don't know where you get the information that if you have a trailer hitch you have NO warranty, but it is totally false. Each case is supposed to be taken on its own merits by the dealer. If the claim appears to be valid, he can get Honda to warranty it. If the claim is related to damage done by the hitch or by the trailer, of course Honda won't warranty that. Other parts not related to the trailer hitch are covered by Honda warranty like any other bike. If your dealer is telling you there is no warranty, he's uninformed. But from your posts, BlueWing, it appears everyone is at fault but you. Bad frames, bad hitches, bad trailers. All of these things were forced upon you? With regard to your statement that Honda put out bad frames; let me repeat something I have said earlier and if you can prove me wrong, I'd like to hear it.

No one knows how many frames were "defective" or would have failed. We only know the ones that did. Honda and the NHTSA agreed on a fix and it is to weld all of the frames in a certain group of bikes. Since those bikes have been recalled and most all of them have now been welded, we will never know if they were "all" faulty and would have cracked or failed. They were suspect and were recalled.

As far as the Honda Rep. saying it was a "good will" swap, I suspect that since they don't know the cause of the "new" crack, it would be a good will warranty. I guess for some the term "good will" coming from Honda is politically incorrect, maybe?

Mark,

Honda dealers can also install illegal mufflers and all kinds of things that Honda has no control over. Think about this. Honda doesn't sell retail. They sell to dealers. Once Honda sells a bike to a dealer, it belongs to him. When he sells it to you, you can have the dealer do anything you want to it. A good dealer would have warned you about Honda's attitude about trailers. And as I said above, the fact that you have a trailer hitch does not invalidate the warranty.

Lucky,

I'm not an attorney either, but since Honda gave the warning not to tow a trailer, shouldn't the burden of proof be on the one who disregarded the warning?
 

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I am a ST1300 rider who frequents this and other boards. One can learn so much and possibly pass on knowledge too.
I'd like to share on observation I made some time ago re: trailers/warranties etc.
I too had a possible Honda warranty denial due to the presence of a hitch. The SM at my dealer was very open minded and prior to his call to the Honda rep. among other things I informed him that on page 18 of the HRCA members benefit manual it states:
"Many of you have touring motorcycles with sidecars and, more often, trailers. If your sidecar or trailer becomes disabled, all of your membership benefits apply to that part of your motorcycle as well...."

This paragraph from an official HM publication leads me to believe (and the SM and rep. agreed) that Mama Honda recognizes that trailers and sidecars are a part of touring. Not a total OK, but certainly some possibly valuable info.

As always, YMMV and FWIW.

Ride on Wingers... 8)
 

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Frame Warranty

Have to agree with Gary on some of this. Each case unless it is out and out obvious is being settled or approached on its own merit. From other sources, there are a couple of ways to look at towing a trailer and warranty. In my case, it is a good will replacement as far as it goes now. Dealer is the one to submit claim to Honda. They do not now know if towing a trailer has indeed cause the frame to crack. I myself find that to be ridiculous. I think Honda will replace the frames as good will for now if there is a hitch on bike until they can get the frames back and see what really caused the frames to crack. If they do find it is not related to towing, then it becomes a whole new ball game.
We must also make sure that we do not get this problem and the weld crack problem confused. We have to not refer to the cracked weld problem as related to the cracked frame problem at this time. Who knows, maybe they are related in some way, but for now they are two separate problems.
As far as dealer and Honda and hitches etc, shouldn't Honda have given each dealer some guidance as to what can and cannot be placed on a MC that Honda dealer will be taken care of under the warranty Honda provides? Is it then then dealers fault for selling and installing a hitch on a Honda? I think we should all hold off on judgments until the answers to the problems start coming out and then we can point fingers.
I know if I dispute the frame replacement, Honda will tie me up in court for as long as it takes to deny any claim. As a consumer, I really don't matter in the big picture and any money Honda spends in court nothing to them because if one person wins in court and gets a new bike, that opens a flood gate. I got the feeling from the Honda rep line that I should be grateful that Honda is replacing my frame, shut up and accept it or we will deny it under the 'no tow" clause. People can rip that statement up, but I am the one with no bike, having to make decision based on a lot of opinions, some facts and the a not so warm and fuzzy feeling. My question becomes, "what if the replaced frame cracks, towing or no towing? What then? :roll:
 

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Lucky,

I'm not an attorney either, but since Honda gave the warning not to tow a trailer, shouldn't the burden of proof be on the one who disregarded the warning?
Gary, the context of my "Blowing Smoke" statement was that Honda probably has no intention of voiding the warranty because of a trailer hitch, at least not at this stage of the investigation. I don't think they're out to screw anyone, but they have to cover their own collective butts as well. I'm sure you're well aware that anything they do this early sets a precident, and they have to proceed with extreme caution. Actually, this might have been a perfect situation (the trailer hitch), that allowed them to replace the frame without comitting to do the same with every crack that might appear later. By stating it was a "Good will" gesture, they have done their best to take care of this individual incidence without admitting fault.

As for the burdn of proof, if it came to that, I don't see it as being any different than voiding a warranty claim on a blown engine because the owner used an aftermarket oil filter or oil instead of a Honda OEM product.

My point is: Honda could have been pissy about this, but they chose to make good in this instance. I feel this is an indication that Honda intends to do everything possible to accomodate anyone with a problem without giving away the store.
 

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Good comments from all. I think that part of Honda's 'good will' to Jerry may be that they want the bad frame in their hands so they can do some deeper investigation of the why's and wherefore's. If they have some defective frames out here, their liability soars. If the defect comes from our abusing the frame (towing) then their liability is lowered.

It would be interesting to find out if there are other frame cracks out here and if those bikes had hitches on them. If so, what type of trailer did they tow. Cargo, Bushtec, QuickCamp, etc, etc?

Jerry, what brand trailer hitch and what trailer were you towing?

I'm thinking on this here keyboard guys, blast me if you wish, but I really think that we need to slow down and collect as much data as possible before blasting away as we have done in the past.
 

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Agree

Lucky, said it the way it should be said. I think you are right, they are trying to fix things without opening up the vault. I hope there are no other cracked frames that will come up and if they take mine and of find the cause of problem and fix it in the next go round, it is worth it.
 
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