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We can talk about what-ifs indefinitely, and certainly, if a user did something to a bike like you're describing that directly caused a problem, Honda would have something to say about it.


Some people are concerned about having their warranty voided by doing a re-flash. That won't happen because any modification would be subject to the same principle, and that's simply and demonstrably not the case. I can change exhaust pipes, which can change the way the engine runs, and no one's ever had a warranty voided for changing exhaust pipes. People have long been running Power Commanders that change air-fuel rations, and no one has ever had a warranty voided because of it. Were a manufacturer to try to void a warranty because of a Power Commander, the motorcycle internet would light up. Beyond actually voiding a warranty, Honda might try to deny a warranty claim because of a re-flash, but as I said, they would have to show relevance. It would be silly for them to claim that a re-flash caused a brake-caliper to leak or a turn-signal flasher to go bad. If a re-flash caused an engine to overheat, that would be relevant, but the burden would be on Honda to prove it, and in any case that's not going to happen with this mod.
We're on the same page, I didn't mean to imply that it could possibly void the entire warranty. I know that it would have to be relevant. That's why I only commented about the engine. I don't know if Power Commander equipped motorcycles was ever denied warranty claims, but several years back I was researching fuel controllers to get rid of the decel pop on on my VTX. There was lots of chatter at the time of engine damage caused by PC running lean. It was attributed to bad maps being downloaded to the internet by individuals. I know that the Gulh re flash doesn't allow that and the maps are professional done and tested. All I'm saying is that no one is going to stand behind you if your power train is damaged, and it give the manufacturers a possible get out of warranty free card for those affected components. Not trying to tell anyone what to do with their bike or their money. I don't have a dog in the fight, my bike performs adequately for me as it was designed. Just offering an alternative view.
 

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Here is another alternative view:
My Power Honda dealer informed me they don’t care about a re-flash . . . they don’t want to know! So my best advice is ‘don’t tell them.’ Like duh . . . why would you? Most of us just want the speed limiter removed. The GL1800 has ALWAYS done 130 mph, under warranty. So how could this re-flash affect your warranty? It won’t . . . . so stop worrying about it and for the same price as a set of fog lights, JUST DO IT!! >:)
 

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Here is another alternative view:
My Power Honda dealer informed me they don’t care about a re-flash . . . they don’t want to know! So my best advice is ‘don’t tell them.’ Like duh . . . why would you? Most of us just want the speed limiter removed. The GL1800 has ALWAYS done 130 mph, under warranty. So how could this re-flash affect your warranty? It won’t . . . . so stop worrying about it and for the same price as a set of fog lights, JUST DO IT!! >:)
I hate to point out the obvious, but your dealer only sell Honda products. Warranty work must be approved by Honda corporate, So it really doesn't matter if your dealer care about a re flash or not. Why tell them? In the case of a catastrophic engine failure I would imagine Honda would be very interested in the cause, especially on a newly designed powertrain. I expect every component would be examined by factory technicians, as it has been reported here when some problems have arose, They would be very involved. That said, I wouldn't expect any problems from the reflash, I just think people should be aware that it is a possible avenue for Honda to deny a warranty claim. Even if you're right that the re flash didn't cause it, it would be difficult and expensive to fight.
 

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they just need to set SPORT mode , restart the bike and check the mode, duh!
The simple answer to this is that with the Guhl reflash you have a choice on what features you want. I do not intend to have my reflash include having the mode be sticky (stay in the last selected mode on restart. >:)
 

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The simple answer to this is that with the Guhl reflash you have a choice on what features you want. I do not intend to have my reflash include having the mode be sticky (stay in the last selected mode on restart. >:)
Myself, I WILL be adding that feature! It’s brilliant, since I am always using Sport mode! I am really surprised there aren’t hundreds of new DCT owners who haven’t done this are-flash, yet?

My guess is:
1. They have no desire to take their bike apart.
2. No mechanical ability to take their bike apart.
3. The price of the re-flash.
4. They worry about the warranty.
 

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Guhl reflash

Myself, I WILL be adding that feature! It’s brilliant, since I am always using Sport mode! I am really surprised there aren’t hundreds of new DCT owners who haven’t done this are-flash, yet?

My guess is:
1. They have no desire to take their bike apart.
2. No mechanical ability to take their bike apart.
3. The price of the re-flash.
4. They worry about the warranty.
I hear you and you need to add a 5th point. To the majority of 2018 plus wingers the stock power is adequate and the speed limiter is not a issue. Having owned sport bikes or high performance bikes for the 55 years I have been riding (76 years old) I still ride ,shall I say briskly, and the changes Don Guhl has made fit my needs exactly. >:)
 

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After Honda personnel finish reading this forum, I would gather Honda may do some simple checks on engine failure to determine if ECU was standard or modified. I would guess that the factory checksum would be different on the ECU Code after reflash. Since the mode switch alone is a giveaway, it would not be hard for them to prove that the bike wasn't standard. I wonder if the risk is worth it ? Maybe just removing limiter would be ok, but to change power curve etc, may be more of a risk. If the reflash was beneficial to the engine, why doesn't Honda by the code from Guhl to fix the ECU ? IMHO.

If it were possible to restore the ECU to Factory default like on phones etc, that would be a bonus. Is there enpough room left in ECU memory to allow restore I wonder ? Could Guhl provide that functionality ? Might be a simple way to alleviate a lot of concerns.
 

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I agree . . . if you are soooo worried about the warranty, my advice is . . . don’t do it! It’s your bike and if you’re scared ? then just move along!!
 

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When I worked with Don Guhl to develop a ECU flash for the Honda VFR1200F in 2012 he had looked into purchasing a ECU from Honda. The cost was nearly $1,200. I don't know what the cost for the new GW would be but probably no less. It would be silly to buy a spare ECU to install every time you take your GW in for service. To reiterate a point that has been made earlier in this thread I would be very surprised if any Honda dealer would know you had reflashed the engine ECU if you don't go around bragging about it. They have no way to check the internal ECU code. The average Honda tech at the dealer level have a problem analysing what should be fairly simple electrical issues and this holds true across the entire motorcycle industry. No dealer service department is going to ride you're GW on top end to discover if the 112 mph speed limiter is still active. The one change that Guhl has made that could trigger a techs curiosity (which is a option that can be deleted from the Guhl flash) is the sticky mode option which will leave the drive mode in the last selected mode. Personally I do not want this option and will not have Guhl install it when I have my ECU flashed.

Guhl has been re-flashing GW ECU's (both the previous gen and now the new one) for years and I have never heard of anyone with his ECU re-flash being denied warranty by Honda.
 

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When I worked with Don Guhl to develop a ECU flash for the Honda VFR1200F in 2012 he had looked into purchasing a ECU from Honda. The cost was nearly $1,200. I don't know what the cost for the new GW would be but probably no less. It would be silly to buy a spare ECU to install every time you take your GW in for service. To reiterate a point that has been made earlier in this thread I would be very surprised if any Honda dealer would know you had reflashed the engine ECU if you don't go around bragging about it. They have no way to check the internal ECU code. The average Honda tech at the dealer level have a problem analysing what should be fairly simple electrical issues and this holds true across the entire motorcycle industry. No dealer service department is going to ride you're GW on top end to discover if the 112 mph speed limiter is still active. The one change that Guhl has made that could trigger a techs curiosity (which is a option that can be deleted from the Guhl flash) is the sticky mode option which will leave the drive mode in the last selected mode. Personally I do not want this option and will not have Guhl install it when I have my ECU flashed.

Guhl has been re-flashing GW ECU's (both the previous gen and now the new one) for years and I have never heard of anyone with his ECU re-flash being denied warranty by Honda.
Thanks for that. The only real evidence for this whole "warranty-denial" debate is whether anyone anywhere ever actually had a warranty problem because of a re-flash. Whether this or that disaster is theoretically possible is an exercise in dark fantasy of the "sky could fall" variety. Everyone here could be hit by lightning tomorrow while riding--and that's something that has actually happened--but no one's going to stop riding because of that possibility. It's very odd that so many feel so strong a need to keep reminding everyone that bad things might happen to good people. Yes, we know. We ride motorcycles.
 

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Thanks for that. The only real evidence for this whole "warranty-denial" debate is whether anyone anywhere ever actually had a warranty problem because of a re-flash. Whether this or that disaster is theoretically possible is an exercise in dark fantasy of the "sky could fall" variety. Everyone here could be hit by lightning tomorrow while riding--and that's something that has actually happened--but no one's going to stop riding because of that possibility. It's very odd that so many feel so strong a need to keep reminding everyone that bad things might happen to good people. Yes, we know. We ride motorcycles.
Truth of this is that very few GW owners are dissatisfied with the motorcycles stock performance. Personally I found two areas on the new wings performance that I was dissatisfied with.
1. The speed limiter (I have the same problem with Honda's speed limiter on my V6 Accord). >:)
2. The too touchy throttle response for my taste in the first part of the throttle in sport mode. :frown2:
 

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Truth of this is that very few GW owners are dissatisfied with the motorcycles stock performance. Personally I found two areas on the new wings performance that I was dissatisfied with.
1. The speed limiter (I have the same problem with Honda's speed limiter on my V6 Accord). >:)
2. The too touchy throttle response for my taste in the first part of the throttle in sport mode. :frown2:
I get that the idea of a speed limiter is annoying, but for me it's a theoretical problem because it's my intention never to get anywhere near the limiter kicking in. However what you say about the touchy throttle in Sport mode is a reason to get the ECM re-flashed, that and it's allowing "stickiness" of the ride-mode setting--I hate having to keep resetting that. It's similar to the FJR's really annoying, stock "feature" of lowering its electric windshield each time the bike is turned off, but on the FJR that is easily defeated by disconnecting a single wire; so simple a fix for the automatic-return-to-Tour-mode is not an option on the Goldwing. I do wish that, once re-flashed, there were an easy way to "de-flash" the ECM back to factory default. I always like having the option to reverse any changes I've made. Buying a replacement ECM is the only way I see to do that, but that's kind of spendy for this retired guy.


It's conceivable that Honda may offer options to select a default ride-mode setting in a future firmware update. Maybe there should be a separate thread just for proposals for future firmware updates?
 

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Thanks for that. The only real evidence for this whole "warranty-denial" debate is whether anyone anywhere ever actually had a warranty problem because of a re-flash. Whether this or that disaster is theoretically possible is an exercise in dark fantasy of the "sky could fall" variety. Everyone here could be hit by lightning tomorrow while riding--and that's something that has actually happened--but no one's going to stop riding because of that possibility. It's very odd that so many feel so strong a need to keep reminding everyone that bad things might happen to good people. Yes, we know. We ride motorcycles.
Honestly, this is my last comment on the subject. I do feel that people's concerns are justified. Even those who are all for it, wish that there was a way to turn it off or for it to be completely stealth and undetectable when going to the dealer for repairs. Theres even been mentioned of obtaining an additional ECM. If they did not believe there could be an issue, they wouldn't care if Honda knew. Truth is we are not privy to all warranty claims or denials.

We live in a "what if" society and we try to make informed decisions to prepare for those "what ifs." We dont anticipate a crash, but we prepare for one by wearing protective gear, helmets, and being insured. We dont expect our motorcycles to break down but we try to minimize that risk by properly servicing them regularly and having a warranty if they do, even buying warranties at additional cost for extended periods.

Everyone do have to determine that level of risk for themselves. My concern would not be that the re flash would cause harm to my motorcycle, I highly doubt that it would. Only what I would have to go through trying to get it fixed. I'm also not risk averse, I do ride motorcycles even without ABS, lol and I've been riding my Goldwing several years now out of extended warranty, knowing full well that any problems is on my dime.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
 

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I guess the changes Guhl has done to the 2018+ ECU are pretty good. I don't care how high the speed limiter is, I never ride my bike over 85ish.

But, having more ponies would be nice. Yes, the bike is pretty quick, but I don't think quicker than my F6B that Guhl flashed a couple years ago. Maybe so, but doesn't feel like it. Another 25 horses and torque would be nice IMO.

Not sure why that is not in the package?
 

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I'd imagine that there is a limit as to how much you can squeeze out of an engine and fixed-gear transmission just by software tunes. Once you hit those "limit(s)" you're going to be forced into actual "physical" changes...like Cams, Valves, Compression and Engine Displacement etc.
No?
 

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I'd imagine that there is a limit as to how much you can squeeze out of an engine and fixed-gear transmission just by software tunes. Once you hit those "limit(s)" you're going to be forced into actual "physical" changes...like Cams, Valves, Compression and Engine Displacement etc.
No?
I suppose there are limits, but I think there is room for several improvements in power and torque, besides upping the speed limit of the bike.

I have 2 cars that we've had the ECUs reflashed ... one had the power increased nearly 100 hp and 85 torque. The other went up 80 hp. I think the GW's power could be improved to a degree as well.
 
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