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Was in WalleyWorld a little while ago... Stopped at the magizine rack, (like a good husband does). :) Saw an American Rider magizine with an article and photo of a 1200 Sportster with a water cooled engine. It looked like a Vrod engine in a Sportser frame set up. It looked Good!! Reminded me of a V-Max with more chrome.
The article said late 07 or 08... Who knows, they might put it in the Ultra Classic with a six speed :shock: :shock: Mother "H" better be paying attention...
 
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Hmmmmm a V-rod that's watercooled, interesting.

My sister-in-law works on engines for Harley in Milwaukee, I ask her if she hears anything about this.
 

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Wi_Winger said:
Hmmmmm a V-rod that's watercooled, interesting.

My sister-in-law works on engines for Harley in Milwaukee, I ask her if she hears anything about this.
V-Rods have always been water cooled. Part of the reason they aren't well accepted by the "tried and true" HD riders! lol

If this story's true it'll be interesting to see how this new engine will be accepted.
 

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water cooled HD

Some of the reasoning for looking towards water cooled engines is that HD is having complications meeting CAFE (corporate aveage fuel economy) ratings and a water cooled engines will help in this area. They were hoping the Vrod would sell in higher quantities and that would aid in the average but it didn't happen. They are going to have to add more water cooled engines to get to the required average. This would allow them to keep the air cooled for the tried and true and make CAFE overall.
 

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I also heard that they have having to meet the noise requirements also, not exhaust noise, but engine noise and water cooled would assist in making this happen, rumor control????
 

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They are also doing the water cooled engine to meet emissions standards after 2008. You'll notice the motorcyle and outboard boat engines have a 2008 rating. 2009 must be tougher to meet! Be aware that the 2007 HD 96" engine runs very hot and very lean. The dealers can no longer put in the stage 1 thru 3 kits as it screws up the emissions ratings. Some dealers will do a custom mapping to the fuel injection on their dyno to get you back to original emmisions rating. This is called race tuning and cost an extra 700 bucks or so. In case your wondering how I know this stuff, I just confirmed it with multiple people and HD dealers, sold my HD ultra and bought a new Goldwing.
 

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Re: water cooled HD

fixitfrank said:
Some of the reasoning for looking towards water cooled engines is that HD is having complications meeting CAFE (corporate aveage fuel economy) ratings and a water cooled engines will help in this area. They were hoping the Vrod would sell in higher quantities and that would aid in the average but it didn't happen. They are going to have to add more water cooled engines to get to the required average. This would allow them to keep the air cooled for the tried and true and make CAFE overall.
Good info, frank. I can see it now. Few will want these new engines, yet HD will have to slow down manufacturing the old ones to meet CAFE and the prices for the old style will go through the roof. Think you've met arrogant HD riders before? HD's about to hatch a new breed. "Yeah, I just got a GREAT deal on a new Dyna Wide Glide for only $48,000!" LOL
 

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joel3078 said:
They are also doing the water cooled engine to meet emissions standards after 2008. You'll notice the motorcyle and outboard boat engines have a 2008 rating. 2009 must be tougher to meet! Be aware that the 2006 HD 96" engine runs very hot and very lean. The dealers can no longer put in the stage 1 thru 3 kits as it screws up the emissions ratings. Some dealers will do a custom mapping to the fuel injection on their dyno to get you back to original emmisions rating. This is called race tuning and cost an extra 700 bucks or so. In case your wondering how I know this stuff, I just confirmed it with multiple people and HD dealers, sold my HD ultra and bought a new Goldwing.
More miss infor from another uninformed source.

2007 is 96 and can be and are being upgraded.

Air cooled is on the way out for everything.
 

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Oops I got the year wrong. 2007 not 2006 is the 96" engine. IT IS a matter of fact that this new engine can and is being updated with stage kits. However, none of the dealers local to me would do it due to emissions regulations. The dealers will sell the kits, just not install it. I'm sure there are dealers all over the USA that could care less about maintaining emissions ratings and will do the install of stage kits. However, up here in the great white north the dealers are paying attention to the laws of the land.
 

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Harley dealers are no different than Honda, Yamaha, etc. when it comes to warranty work. Some dealers cover warranty issues without a glitch, other dealers you will fight with to get it taken care of. I called both of the Harley dealers in Fresno and asked them about modifications on the '07 UC (Stage 1, pipes etc.) and they both said that they will be doing these mods and will stand behind all warranty issues. They also made a point of saying: Save all the parts that are taken off just in case emissions issues come up in the event the gov't starts a smog program.

One Harley dealer in town has no problem installing a trailer hitch and will stand behind the warranty and the other dealer says the minute you install a hitch it voids out parts of their warranty. Just like Honda different dealers treat warranty issues differently.
 

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Texan said:
That's right, the V-rod has a water cooled Porsche engine.
And the rest have air cooled Porsche engines.

A Harley dealer/enthusiast told me about eight years ago (long before the V-Rod came out) that one of the first things the new (post-AMF) Harley company did was go to Porsche (I think it was the design group), give them the plans for their V-Twin and said "update it, make it more reliable, keep the look and sound."

The result was the Evolution engine.

I have no idea if this is true or not, but the Evolution seemed a lot different and from I understand a whole lot more reliable than the previous design.
 

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Re: water cooled HD

Wanderer said:
fixitfrank said:
Some of the reasoning for looking towards water cooled engines is that HD is having complications meeting CAFE (corporate aveage fuel economy) ratings and a water cooled engines will help in this area. They were hoping the Vrod would sell in higher quantities and that would aid in the average but it didn't happen. They are going to have to add more water cooled engines to get to the required average. This would allow them to keep the air cooled for the tried and true and make CAFE overall.
Good info, frank. I can see it now. Few will want these new engines, yet HD will have to slow down manufacturing the old ones to meet CAFE and the prices for the old style will go through the roof. Think you've met arrogant HD riders before? HD's about to hatch a new breed. "Yeah, I just got a GREAT deal on a new Dyna Wide Glide for only $48,000!" LOL
Yeah, long term does not look good for Harley.

Harley just may not have the answers for their present challenges.

I fear it's another example of we Americans thinking we are winning . . .

. . . when we are losing again.

Losing, for me, is a difficult thing to enjoy.

Particularily, when we seem to have this need to whup ourselves. :(

Well, let us worry about such tomorrow.
 
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LVWolfman said:
Texan said:
That's right, the V-rod has a water cooled Porsche engine.
And the rest have air cooled Porsche engines.

A Harley dealer/enthusiast told me about eight years ago (long before the V-Rod came out) that one of the first things the new (post-AMF) Harley company did was go to Porsche (I think it was the design group), give them the plans for their V-Twin and said "update it, make it more reliable, keep the look and sound."

The result was the Evolution engine.

I have no idea if this is true or not, but the Evolution seemed a lot different and from I understand a whole lot more reliable than the previous design.
I was told Honda helped them develop the Evolution motor.
 

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In my search for confirmation about about the Porsche link, I found the following:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/vsrca_v-rod.htm said:
t has been no big secret that Harley has consulted with Porsche for nearly twenty years, first with the never-marketed Nova V-4 project in the '80s, then with the VR1000 Superbike project in the '90s. So when it came time to provide stallions for the new power cruiser, it was natural they'd seek Porsche again. The injection system hails from France, the ignition from Italy, but a lot of the internal hard parts are German, such as the Mahle pistons, which have also been used since the Evolution Big Twin days of the mid '80s.
Hmm FI from France, Ignition from Italy, pistons from France...

Also, it wasn't the "NEW" HD owners that went to Porsche, it was the old management when HD was owned by AMF! Rider Magazinehas an archived article on the Porsche designed water cooled HD V4 from 1976. If the link doesn't work, when you're on the ridermagazine site, do a search for V-4 Harley.
 

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Re: water cooled HD

hubert said:
Wanderer said:
fixitfrank said:
Some of the reasoning for looking towards water cooled engines is that HD is having complications meeting CAFE (corporate aveage fuel economy) ratings and a water cooled engines will help in this area. They were hoping the Vrod would sell in higher quantities and that would aid in the average but it didn't happen. They are going to have to add more water cooled engines to get to the required average. This would allow them to keep the air cooled for the tried and true and make CAFE overall.
Good info, frank. I can see it now. Few will want these new engines, yet HD will have to slow down manufacturing the old ones to meet CAFE and the prices for the old style will go through the roof. Think you've met arrogant HD riders before? HD's about to hatch a new breed. "Yeah, I just got a GREAT deal on a new Dyna Wide Glide for only $48,000!" LOL
Yeah, long term does not look good for Harley.

Harley just may not have the answers for their present challenges.

I fear it's another example of we Americans thinking we are winning . . .

. . . when we are losing again.

Losing, for me, is a difficult thing to enjoy.

Particularily, when we seem to have this need to whup ourselves. :(

Well, let us worry about such tomorrow.
Yeah -- Harley is losing.. ha ha.. look at their stock.. and wake up.. I would be willing to bet Harley has been testing a water cooled engine for years.. just waiting for the right time to introduce it... after all didn't they put 6-speed trannys in most of their 07 models ? but I bet when Honda finally comes up with a six speed .. most will say Honda was first..

cosmic
 

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Re: water cooled HD

cosmic_chariot said:
hubert said:
Wanderer said:
fixitfrank said:
Some of the reasoning for looking towards water cooled engines is that HD is having complications meeting CAFE (corporate aveage fuel economy) ratings and a water cooled engines will help in this area. They were hoping the Vrod would sell in higher quantities and that would aid in the average but it didn't happen. They are going to have to add more water cooled engines to get to the required average. This would allow them to keep the air cooled for the tried and true and make CAFE overall.
Good info, frank. I can see it now. Few will want these new engines, yet HD will have to slow down manufacturing the old ones to meet CAFE and the prices for the old style will go through the roof. Think you've met arrogant HD riders before? HD's about to hatch a new breed. "Yeah, I just got a GREAT deal on a new Dyna Wide Glide for only $48,000!" LOL
Yeah, long term does not look good for Harley.

Harley just may not have the answers for their present challenges.

I fear it's another example of we Americans thinking we are winning . . .

. . . when we are losing again.

Losing, for me, is a difficult thing to enjoy.

Particularily, when we seem to have this need to whup ourselves. :(

Well, let us worry about such tomorrow.
Yeah -- Harley is losing.. ha ha.. look at their stock.. and wake up.. I would be willing to bet Harley has been testing a water cooled engine for years.. just waiting for the right time to introduce it... after all didn't they put 6-speed trannys in most of their 07 models ? but I bet when Honda finally comes up with a six speed .. most will say Honda was first..

cosmic
Yeah, I know what you write.

But, I wrote the term . . . long term . . . sometimes thought of as 20 years. . . . from . . .

But, you know, I hope you are right. . .

and I am encouraged by the fact that you ain't wrong often!!! :D

Have a good week, Mr. Cosmic!!! :D
 

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HD

The HD touring line are the best looking bikes out there, in my opinion.

If they build a water-cooled motor that still looks as good as an ultra or Road King, they will sell a ton of them.
 
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