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Discussion Starter #41
My prediction is that if or when the EV experience becomes equal to or better than fossil fuel vehicles, that only then will it become a viable option. Not too many will spend that kind of coin on a local commuter. Until a charging infrastructure is in place across America and charging times is reduced, it will not appeal to a lot of people. But we have to remember just how far EV technology have progressed in the last decade, so I would never say never.

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The longterm is EV’s. The green bullies will finally win out and we will be stuck them and will pay far more to own and operate them.


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Fossil fuels or alternative biofuels will be around for quite some time unless totally banned. I do think EV's will become more prevalent in the cities.
 

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Anyone see a Livewire on the street yet?

I live in a high tech community with tons of Tesla's and neat vehicles but have yet to see even one on the streets?

Think it's . . .
 

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Electric cars equal better environment !! Now then, whats going to power the power plants to make the electricity and what are you going to do with all of the dead batteries ?
 

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Electric cars equal better environment !! Now then, whats going to power the power plants to make the electricity and what are you going to do with all of the dead batteries ?
You really hit the nail on the head with that. The propaganda surrounding EVs is comical. You buy something that doesn't use a polluting engine. But then you charge up your EV with electricity from a power plant that is probably burning coal, which is arguably dirtier than gasoline. Nobody in the industry wants to talk about that, because it doesn't fit their green narrative.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
Lots of studies and research available, plenty of arguments for both sides. Conventional wisdom is that it is easier to control the pollution output of hundreds of power plants than millions of vehicles. Sure there will be pollution generated during the manufacturing and disposal/repurposing process, but of course that's true of all vehicles. Current studies show that EVs is still less or comparable to a ICE vehicle. Not taking in account zero emissions from the tailpipe for the entire life of the car. What also must be considered is that not all electricity is generated by coal or natural gas. Advancements in wind, solar, hydroelectric are providing a greater share of our nations energy needs, and of course nuclear is the cleanest of them all. Even with pertroleum based vehicles we must consider that great energy is expended in just the refinement and transportation process of fuel, production and disposal of consumables such as motor oil, transmission fluids, antifreeze, filters, etc.

That said, I'm firmly in the camp of the internal combustion engine, but I can't dismiss the strides that have been made industry wide in EV vehicles in just the past decade. Ten years ago I would have never given one a second look. As the technology continues to develop, I don't think it will be long before they compare more favorable to what we're use to.
 

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I agree there is advancement being made with electronic vehicles. John Deere and other manufactures already have unique electric prototypes in field tests Planters, chisel plows, field cultivators, etc that are powered with an electric motor that is hooked to a generator on the tractor. The idea is that since the implement is powered, then the tractor doesn't need the additional power which means the tractor doesn't need the big horse power (less fuel) that requires additional weight added for traction(less soil compaction). The tractor would be similar to whats on the railroad. Diesel engines powering electric motors that drive the wheels. As to the environmental "savings". with electric power...... don't piss on my leg and tell me its raining. :D
 

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You really hit the nail on the head with that. The propaganda surrounding EVs is comical. You buy something that doesn't use a polluting engine. But then you charge up your EV with electricity from a power plant that is probably burning coal, which is arguably dirtier than gasoline. Nobody in the industry wants to talk about that, because it doesn't fit their green narrative.
Similar to the myth of ethanol added to gas, so we use less gas. Ethanol (and oxygenated fuel) decrease gas mileage. In addition the fossil fuel needed to grow, harvest, process and transport the ethanol to the refinery, so the net result is more fuel used overall even though we are sold on the idea it reduces gas usage
 

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I was an early adopter of a horizontally opposed 4 cylinder motorcycle. Everyone told me it would be unmanageable (too heavy). The fuel was in the frame so likely to explode. There were no accessories available. I guess it caught on.
 

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Similar to the myth of ethanol added to gas, so we use less gas. Ethanol (and oxygenated fuel) decrease gas mileage. In addition the fossil fuel needed to grow, harvest, process and transport the ethanol to the refinery, so the net result is more fuel used overall even though we are sold on the idea it reduces gas usage
Corn is going to be planted and harvested whether ethanol exists or not. How many farmers have been killed protecting a corn field overseas ?
 

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You will see these anywhere/everywhere the Green elite have a presence. These initially will be for the Hollywood elite, the sporting/acting rich, and the green bullies. It will be a status symbol much like the first electric cars, partially because it is an HD. Of course that will drive others to adapt because they are followers of the elite type.

That said, I am not opposed to progress and think we need find other ways to propel our craft. I do think the LiveWire is an interesting concept. I do not think it is ready for prime time at 100mi range. I am sure later models will get that sorted also.
 

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Discussion Starter #56
Similar to the myth of ethanol added to gas, so we use less gas. Ethanol (and oxygenated fuel) decrease gas mileage. In addition the fossil fuel needed to grow, harvest, process and transport the ethanol to the refinery, so the net result is more fuel used overall even though we are sold on the idea it reduces gas usage
You are using up to 10% less Gasoline, Ethanol was not added to increase fuel efficiency, it was added to reduce our dependency on non renewable foreign oil. Just like with EV vehicles, as it has became more mainstream, efficiency in production and use have evolved.

 

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I was an early adopter of a horizontally opposed 4 cylinder motorcycle. Everyone told me it would be unmanageable (too heavy). The fuel was in the frame so likely to explode. There were no accessories available. I guess it caught on.
That is not a comparable analogy. The GL1000 cost significantly less than other touring bikes of the time, so buying one was not much of a stretch. The Livewire costs 3 times as much as a comparable naked bike of similar size and function. And even though it had a slightly larger frame than most bikes, the only thing that was really unique about it was an engine layout that was new for the Japanese and the shaft drive. BMW had already been using boxer engines for years.

And that is not to mention the little problem of range and the difficulty of charging out on the road. The GL1000 was a practical bike. The Livewire is not.
 

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Discussion Starter #58
Has anyone seen a Livewire on the road?
I have not, but to be fair, I don't see many hybrids or EVs here in he mountains. I don't know if it's true but I was told by a Ford dealership that the plug in hybrid Fusion wasn't available in this region due to not being able to live up to the EPA rating. I have seen quite a few Teslas. As far as motorcycles go, I think the Zero is quite a bit ahead of the live wire.
 

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Wife and I each test rode one at a local HD Dealer(Space Coast HD).

CON
Smaller than I like
No real wind protection

PRO
FAST
FUN
THE FUTURE

If you go to Daytona Bike week take the time to test ride one. I would not buy one now but damn fun and fast
 

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Isle of Man TT record for electric motorcycle in TT Zero class. As you can see, its a lot faster than a lot of people expect.
OutrightPeter HickmanBMW S 1000 RR201816:42.778135.452mph / 217.989km/h
TT SuperbikeDean HarrisonKawasaki ZX 10R201816:50.384134.432mph / 216.347km/h
SupersportMichael DunlopHonda CBR 600 RR201817:31.328129.197mph / 207.922km/h
Lightweight TTMichael DunlopPaton 650201818:26.543122.750mph / 197.546km/h
TT ZeroMichael RutterTeam Mugen201818:34.956121.824mph / 196.056km/h
Superstock TTPeter HickmanBMW S 1000 RR201816:50.501134.403mph / 216.300km/h
Sidecar TTBen & Tom BirchallHonda CBR201818:59.018119.250mph / 191.914km/h
Fastest NewcomerPeter HickmanBMW S 1000 RR201417:32.078129.104mph / 207.772km/h
FemaleJenny TinmouthHonda CBR 1000 RR201018:52.42119.945mph / 193.032km/h

 
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