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You are using up to 10% less Gasoline, Ethanol was not added to increase fuel efficiency, it was added to reduce our dependency on non renewable foreign oil. Just like with EV vehicles, as it has became more mainstream, efficiency in production and use have evolved.

 

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I agree with the statement you made, but the quote you added is completely false. The US actually has the largest amount of oil reserves in the world, not just a fraction as that site claims. It's not surprising since that is an ethanol producer making the statement. It is true that there are a lot of false myths surrounding ethanol, but they are not helping their credibility by creating their own.

Note: This new website is all screwed up. It split my post into two posts. Not the first time that has happened.
 

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Discussion Starter #63 (Edited)
I agree with the statement you made, but the quote you added is completely false. The US actually has the largest amount of oil reserves in the world, not just a fraction as that site claims. It's not surprising since that is an ethanol producer making the statement. It is true that there are a lot of false myths surrounding ethanol, but they are not helping their credibility by creating their own.

Note: This new website is all screwed up. It split my post into two posts. Not the first time that has happened.
Not entirely false, not quite sure when the article was writen. while it is true that the US has become the world's largest producer with the largest reserves in recent years, it is still just only one out of one hundred oil producing countries.
There is an estimated 2.1 trillion barrels of oil globally, the estimate in the US is 264 billion barrels even after shale discovery ( about 1 tenth of global supply). nothing to sneeze at, but certainly not the lions share of global resources. Russia alone is only a few billion barrels off what's estimated in the US.
I know it all sounds like a infinite amount of oil, but it will probably surprise us all how quickly that would be depleted if we did nothing to curb our consumption and markets like India and China modernize and thier appitite for oil grow.
 

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I agree with the statement you made, but the quote you added is completely false. The US actually has the largest amount of oil reserves in the world, not just a fraction as that site claims. It's not surprising since that is an ethanol producer making the statement. It is true that there are a lot of false myths surrounding ethanol, but they are not helping their credibility by creating their own.

Note: This new website is all screwed up. It split my post into two posts. Not the first time that has happened.
I suspect it wasn't until after that article was written was the US own supply of oil allowed to be accessed.
 

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Years ago I never expected to see so many battery operated tools but wow things keep Changing they even have some pretty decent battery operated chainsaws and where would we be without all the battery operated forklifts.
 

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Has anyone seen a Livewire on the road?
I have not.

I have a friend who is a salesman at a local HD dealer, he told me a few weeks ago they haven't sold a single Livewire from there yet. Had many people test ride it but no one wants to pay that price for the low range.

My hunch is it ain't selling too well anywhere.
 

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I have not.

I have a friend who is a salesman at a local HD dealer, he told me a few weeks ago they haven't sold a single Livewire from there yet. Had many people test ride it but no one wants to pay that price for the low range.

My hunch is it ain't selling too well anywhere.

I would say your hunch is correct. HD dealer in my neck of the woods isn't even stocking them.
?
 

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Discussion Starter #68
Years ago I never expected to see so many battery operated tools but wow things keep Changing they even have some pretty decent battery operated chainsaws and where would we be without all the battery operated forklifts.
Ten years ago most of my projects was done with corded tools, now they are done almost exclusively with cordless tools. Battery technology has came a long ways.
 

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I would say your hunch is correct. HD dealer in my neck of the woods isn't even stocking them.
?
My wife works for one of the local HD dealers. They declined to put in the $50K charging station that HD wants and probably won't carry the Livewire at all. I have seen exactly one electric motorcycle in all my days on this Earth and it was a Zero. While I admire HD's cajones in producing the Livewire, ultimately I believe it will fail......not because it's a poor motorcycle, but because the masses are not ready for an electric bike, especially at the $30K price point.
 

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My wife works for one of the local HD dealers. They declined to put in the $50K charging station that HD wants and probably won't carry the Livewire at all. I have seen exactly one electric motorcycle in all my days on this Earth and it was a Zero. While I admire HD's cajones in producing the Livewire, ultimately I believe it will fail......not because it's a poor motorcycle, but because the masses are not ready for an electric bike, especially at the $30K price point.
The $50K charging station is one of the main reasons the dealer in my neck of the woods gave along with the cost of special tools and diagnostic equipment required to service the bike. They were also required to take a certain amount of Livewires.

There has been zero interest in the bike at the $30K price point. Price it down in the same range as a Zero and it probably would sell.
?
 

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Actually I would love to test ride one myself...
Question: I do see electric hook ups at various places, BUT I have never seen if they actually charge, for the electric...Some parking places, and some companies, The next town from me,also have this electric hook up's on the street as well, and only allow electric vehicles, to park there, and I see A cord is plugged into the vehicles...Is there a cost OR not, for the charge??? If there is no charge for the electric, I would think that "free juice", would indeed be worth the added extra price.. to these vehicles.....Can you imagine how much a owner would save , if he didn't ever have to pay for fuel?

Ronnie
 

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Actually I would love to test ride one myself...
Question: I do see electric hook ups at various places, BUT I have never seen if they actually charge, for the electric...Some parking places, and some companies, The next town from me,also have this electric hook up's on the street as well, and only allow electric vehicles, to park there, and I see A cord is plugged into the vehicles...Is there a cost OR not, for the charge??? If there is no charge for the electric, I would think that "free juice", would indeed be worth the added extra price.. to these vehicles.....Can you imagine how much a owner would save , if he didn't ever have to pay for fuel?

Ronnie
In my neck of the woods, there are two charging networks; ChargePoint, and Tesla which operate somewhere around 200 charging stations. Very few of them offer "free" charging. "Someone" has to pay for the electricity.
 

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If you have a Tesla S that you bought up to a couple of years ago, charging was free at Tesla charging stations for as long as you own it. They do not offer that anymore.

I have read that in some states it is illegal to charge (no pun intended) to charge your vehicle. I don't know which states, and I don't understand on what grounds a government could create such a law. But it sure doesn't encourage independent companies to build charging stations in those states.

Doesn't much matter. Most of us here will no longer be driving or riding by the time the infrastructure gets built up enough to the point where you can actually tour on an EV bike without the fear of becoming stranded. And that's isn't helped by the fact that there are no breakthroughs in battery technology on the horizon that would cure the range problem.
 

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I would imagine the complaints about the electric bikes are similar to when automobiles were invented. Range was less than a horse and buggy, confounded contraptions were a mystery to fix, etc. They'll catch on eventually as the government pushes the green agenda. I think battery technology is there. It's just a matter of the holders of the patents getting enough money for their ideas.
 

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The unintended consequence of EV vehicles is the decline in "Government Revenues".....as folks in a given area move to EV cars/motorcycles, the gubmint no longer collects the gasoline tax revenues. The politicians then freak out at the loss of income and come up with alternative tax plans.....tax by the mile or add a "vehicle charging tax" to your electric bill. There is an upside and downside to everything.
 

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The unintended consequence of EV vehicles is the decline in "Government Revenues".....as folks in a given area move to EV cars/motorcycles, the gubmint no longer collects the gasoline tax revenues. The politicians then freak out at the loss of income and come up with alternative tax plans.....tax by the mile or add a "vehicle charging tax" to your electric bill. There is an upside and downside to everything.
I have thought about that too. But you just know that they are already planning way ahead of you. They will get their money somehow. What mechanism they will use is anybody's guess.

Methods to beat the system work when only a small number of people do it. But once it hits the mainstream it's all over.
 

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Considering theres either a DQ or Buffet every 15 miles, thats twice as far as a Goldwinger goes.
Actually, what I said was literally true. Harley has morphed into a marketing-driven enterprise predominantly concerned with demographics. Present company excepted, of course, but Harley knows that buyers in the market they are targeting are attracted more to and care more about the image of motorcycling than the risks and discomforts of actual, everyday, longer-distance motorcycling. Again--present company excepted; we here are not typical, and also none of this is true of everyone who owns, buys, rides, or likes Harleys. It is however true of the target market of the marketing-driven company Harley is now. The Livewire is aimed squarely at riders who take short, highly Harley-accessorized RTEs, and the Livewire has plenty of range for them and for those short rides. The Harley marketeers are not stupid. They did their homework before committing to this bike, and their homework included assessing whether there was a market. How many people in that target market will actually spend that amount of money for what will amortize into very expensive DQ burgers is the question at the heart of an enormous gamble.

The Livewire is also a broadside aimed at critics who complain that Harley is stuck in the past.

Motorcycling is dying because late-stage capitalism has smoothed over many of life's rough spots, but in the process it has produced succeeding generations of people ever-more intolerant of those rough spots, of the discomforts of motorcycling relative to riding in a car: noise, rain, manual shifting, heat, cold, helmet hair, limited cargo capacity, armored clothing, accidents, extra schooling, extra visits to the DMV, frightened passengers or their parents--the list is long and gets longer everyday as cars become ever-more caccoon-like. I'm a fervent DCT fan, but the DCT indisputably makes motorcycling even more car-like, and it's no coincidence that among the top DCT complaints are its noises and clunks--its non-smooth characteristics.

The Livewire is a Hail Mary pass. We'll see if enough people catch it.
 

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Actually, what I said was literally true. Harley has morphed into a marketing-driven enterprise predominantly concerned with demographics. Present company excepted, of course, but Harley knows that buyers in the market they are targeting are attracted more to and care more about the image of motorcycling than the risks and discomforts of actual, everyday, longer-distance motorcycling. Again--present company excepted; we here are not typical, and also none of this is true of everyone who owns, buys, rides, or likes Harleys. It is however true of the target market of the marketing-driven company Harley is now. The Livewire is aimed squarely at riders who take short, highly Harley-accessorized RTEs, and the Livewire has plenty of range for them and for those short rides. The Harley marketeers are not stupid. They did their homework before committing to this bike, and their homework included assessing whether there was a market. How many people in that target market will actually spend that amount of money for what will amortize into very expensive DQ burgers is the question at the heart of an enormous gamble.

The Livewire is also a broadside aimed at critics who complain that Harley is stuck in the past.

Motorcycling is dying because late-stage capitalism has smoothed over many of life's rough spots, but in the process it has produced succeeding generations of people ever-more intolerant of those rough spots, of the discomforts of motorcycling relative to riding in a car: noise, rain, manual shifting, heat, cold, helmet hair, limited cargo capacity, armored clothing, accidents, extra schooling, extra visits to the DMV, frightened passengers or their parents--the list is long and gets longer everyday as cars become ever-more caccoon-like. I'm a fervent DCT fan, but the DCT indisputably makes motorcycling even more car-like, and it's no coincidence that among the top DCT complaints are its noises and clunks--its non-smooth characteristics.

The Livewire is a Hail Mary pass. We'll see if enough people catch it.
What I said is true also. Honda took a hard look at its retirement age GW riders and downsized the GW to a bike thats designed with only enough luggage space to hold a little more than a Buffet left overs bag. I do agree that the Livewire is for local travel.
 
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