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Nope, I'm good with the bugs. But as you ride cross-country and back, you just seem to collect this layer of fine black grime, and the best I can figure is that it's tires, asphalt, and brake dust.
 
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I really cant address your comments for obvious reasons. My point was that these are arguments that have been made before. The reality has not been what was hyped by hysteria. At current rate of consumption, proven oil reserves was 47 years as of 2016. Out of those proven reserves, the United states was not in the top 10. Who believes that China or India will stay at their current rate of consumption as they continue to modernize ? The US either for that matter. For those of you that are asking where the electricity is going to come from 20 years from now, have you ever given any thought of where the gas is going to come from?.
I've been hearing that 47year figure for at least 15 years. Whats odd, is the people that are against gas/oil, yet are also against ethanol which we can make right here in the US with enough abundance that its exported. I am not saying ethanol is perfect, but at least it replaces what oil reserves we do have. E10 has been in the US fuel supply since the 70s. Which means we have used 10% less gas every year since then.
 

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I've been hearing that 47year figure for at least 15 years. Whats odd, is the people that are against gas/oil, yet are also against ethanol which we can make right here in the US with enough abundance that its exported. I am not saying ethanol is perfect, but at least it replaces what oil reserves we do have. E10 has been in the US fuel supply since the 70s. Which means we have used 10% less gas every year since then.
At best it's an educated guess. Discoveries of new reserves or new ways to access reserves can and do extend that time. Conservation extends that time . And the use of ethanol and biofuels have certainly resulted in a reduction of the use of petroleum. On the other hand those estimates could also be overly optimistic, I really dont understand the aversion to the use of certain fuels. As long as the vehicle performs as desired, I never really had a problem with what fuel it used. I used biofuels and waste vegetable oil in my diesel for years. Never had an electric car, but if it served my needs I wouldn't be opposed to it. If gasoline did run out, or become extremely difficult to get, I suspect more than a few here would be happy that alternatives were available, and drive a E100 or electric car with a smile on their face.
 

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At best it's an educated guess. Discoveries of new reserves or new ways to access reserves can and do extend that time. Conservation extends that time . And the use of ethanol and biofuels have certainly resulted in a reduction of the use of petroleum. On the other hand those estimates could also be overly optimistic, I really dont understand the aversion to the use of certain fuels. As long as the vehicle performs as desired, I never really had a problem with what fuel it used. I used biofuels and waste vegetable oil in my diesel for years. Never had an electric car, but if it served my needs I wouldn't be opposed to it. If gasoline did run out, or become extremely difficult to get, I suspect more than a few here would be happy that alternatives were available, and drive a E100 or electric car with a smile on their face.
When you come right down to it most raw materials we depend upon to produce and store energy or to manufacture motors are finite supplies. The cost effective mass production of agricultural products to make ethanol and other bio-fuels is highly dependent upon the petroleum industry. The manufacture of efficient electric motors is highly dependent upon the mining of rare earth minerals. The production and distribution of electricity in this country is also finite especially when it is limited in the use of coal and natural gas and the mining and smelting of copper and aluminum. i believe we are fooling ourselves if we think the environmentally friendly, inexpensive perpetual motion machine is soon within our reach.
 

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When you come right down to it most raw materials we depend upon to produce and store energy or to manufacture motors are finite supplies. The cost effective mass production of agricultural products to make ethanol and other bio-fuels is highly dependent upon the petroleum industry. The manufacture of efficient electric motors is highly dependent upon the mining of rare earth minerals. The production and distribution of electricity in this country is also finite especially when it is limited in the use of coal and natural gas and the mining and smelting of copper and aluminum. i believe we are fooling ourselves if we think the environmentally friendly, inexpensive perpetual motion machine is soon within our reach.

All true, but perfect doesn't exist, there will be pitfalls and challenges, just as they were to bring ICE automobiles to fruition. But what would you have us to do, nothing? Racer57 said he had heard the 47 year oil supply 15 years ago. What if they where right then? It would mean just 32 years of supply left if consumption had remained at that level, it has not. We are not only faced with environmental concerns, but it is also an sustainability issue. Although it wont matter to many of us personally, a lot of us have children and grandchildren that it will affect.

Only through research and development will better techniques and more environmentally friendly processes become available. And it's not as if the production of fossil fuels doesn't have it's own environmental impact, which by the way gets progressively worse as the lower hanging fruit is consumed. The one difference in the things you mentioned above is that most of them are recyclable or recoverable, Fuel is not. Its estimated that nearly 90% of a new car is made from recycled materials, I would expect that trend to continue. It wont be perfect, but waiting until automobile travel is no longer feasible to start trying to figure it out, is not an option in my opinion.
 

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The technology is available to use corn syrup as a feed stock to convert it into gasoline, jet fuel, Diesel or other chemicals that are derived from oil.
 

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I wanna know when we'll have perpetual motion ???
Some of these threads, such as oil threads, ethanol threads, and electric motorcycles threads ARE perpetual motion derivatives! :D :D:ROFLMAO:


Glen
 

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I can't remember if I already commented on this thread and didn't have the patience for reviewing 13 pages, but I find that I really don't care what Honda does in 2040. If I'm still on the green side of the grass I'll be 97 then and probably will have long ended my motorcycle days. But then again, maybe I'll be "riding" a Spyder by then.
 

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I wanna know when we'll have perpetual motion ???
I predict perpetual motion machines will be here at about the same time we see teleportation. Teleportation will make most forms of energy consuming transportation obsolete.
 
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All true, but perfect doesn't exist, there will be pitfalls and challenges, just as they were to bring ICE automobiles to fruition. But what would you have us to do, nothing? Racer57 said he had heard the 47 year oil supply 15 years ago. What if they where right then? It would mean just 32 years of supply left if consumption had remained at that level, it has not. We are not only faced with environmental concerns, but it is also an sustainability issue. Although it wont matter to many of us personally, a lot of us have children and grandchildren that it will affect.

Only through research and development will better techniques and more environmentally friendly processes become available. And it's not as if the production of fossil fuels doesn't have it's own environmental impact, which by the way gets progressively worse as the lower hanging fruit is consumed. The one difference in the things you mentioned above is that most of them are recyclable or recoverable, Fuel is not. Its estimated that nearly 90% of a new car is made from recycled materials, I would expect that trend to continue. It wont be perfect, but waiting until automobile travel is no longer feasible to start trying to figure it out, is not an option in my opinion.
Back in 1973, the year I got married and drove to the honeymoon destination, reports indicated we had used up all the petroleum resources. I had to look for an open gasoline station, one with fuel to sell and with the shortest lines, as soon as the fuel gauge in my car reached the half full mark. I had much better things I wanted to do. Here in the United States we still have tremendous coal and natural gas resources. In addition we have barely tapped into the fossil fuel resources under our oceans. I welcome new technologies utilizing more environmentally friendly and more efficient processes. I bought a Toyota Venza hybrid car this year. It gets better mpg than my Goldwing. However, I believe as a nation we have not been realistic about our need to fully utilize the resources we have and our need to dramatically grow, strengthen and secure our electric power grids.
 

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Back in 1973, the year I got married and drove to the honeymoon destination, reports indicated we had used up all the petroleum resources. I had to look for an open gasoline station, one with fuel to sell and with the shortest lines, as soon as the fuel gauge in my car reached the half full mark. I had much better things I wanted to do. Here in the United States we still have tremendous coal and natural gas resources. In addition we have barely tapped into the fossil fuel resources under our oceans. I welcome new technologies utilizing more environmentally friendly and more efficient processes. I bought a Toyota Venza hybrid car this year. It gets better mpg than my Goldwing. However, I believe as a nation we have not been realistic about our need to fully utilize the resources we have and our need to dramatically grow, strengthen and secure our electric power grids.
I agree, there is no question that there is more resources than what is considered "proven" the only problem is that they become progressively more expensive, dangerous, and harder to get to. Currently the deepest offshore oil rig is drilling at an ocean depth of less than one and a half miles. That's about twice as deep as deepwater horizon. It took 87 days to cap horizon (which some say is still leaking) after millions of barrels of oil poured into the ocean. One well has been leaking into the ocean since 2004. With current technology we have no ability to fix these disasters that are less than one fourteenth as deep as the deepest part of the ocean.

I live in a state that has been mining coal for 100 years. All of the low hanging fruit is gone. That doesn't mean that there is not still coal in these mountains. It simply means that it is more difficult and more expensive to get to than it was when you could just punch a hole in the side of a mountain. To be competitive with some of the new discoveries, in this country and around the world. It would require relaxing regulations that harm people. Such as removing mountain tops and filling in the valleys and streams below with the refuge ( contaminating drinking water), relaxed emission standards, wv already has the highest rate of respiratory illnesses in the country, one of the country's highest rates of cancer and shortest life expectancy.

I agree that if the technology advances to the point where these resources can be extracted safety and burned cleanly, they should be exploited. But not at all cost
 

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Alright guys, for those that think you can't travel in an electric vehicle. We are currently in Durango Colorado having just left Taos, NM. We live in Florida, currently 2200 miles from home. For those who don't know, Taos NM is in the middle of nowhere. No issue or worry at all over charging. We traveled about 700 miles a day.

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One thing that always concerned me about electric cars is the thought that in four or five years the car would need a new battery that cost more than the car was worth. Something that I hadn't thought about happened a few days ago. I was talking with someone I didn't know & he mentioned that he worked at a local car dealership. We got talking about cars & he said that most dealers won't take an electric car in trade. I don't know if that is true but it would give me pause if it is.
 

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I was at a car dealership a few years back looking at a new truck. While looking at vehicles I passed an electric vehicle that on the lot. The salesman stated how cost efficient it was. I said maybe, but if it only runs 250 miles between charges, it would take 3 days just to get across Texas.

Just because it's cost efficient doesn't make it practical.
 

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A customer is having an issue at a Nissan dealer where my son in law works. The customer wants to buy a new battery for his 2012 electric Nissan Leaf (?) and was told they are not making the battery anymore. I think there is a lawsuit in process.
 

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One thing that always concerned me about electric cars is the thought that in four or five years the car would need a new battery that cost more than the car was worth. Something that I hadn't thought about happened a few days ago. I was talking with someone I didn't know & he mentioned that he worked at a local car dealership. We got talking about cars & he said that most dealers won't take an electric car in trade. I don't know if that is true but it would give me pause if it is.
I had the same opinion ever since hybrid vehicles were offered for sale. About three years ago I took on a small part-time job (4hrs/week) at a large vehicle dealer-only auction. The sellers are mostly new car dealers. The buyers are mostly all used car dealers. I see many older, used Toyota Prius' (all hybrids) with over 200k miles on the odometer selling for ridiculously high money. It could be it's just Toyota producing high quality, long lasting batteries.
 

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Tesla comes with an 8 year 120k mile battery warranty. At almost 40k on mine I can’t tell any difference. Resale is ridiculously high. I made it to Durango in 3 days.


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Tesla comes with an 8 year 120k mile battery warranty. At almost 40k on mine I can’t tell any difference. Resale is ridiculously high. I made it to Durango in 3 days.


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When you get to 120,000+ miles what will it cost to replace the batteries when they are shot ?
 
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