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So fossil fuels going away to build on electricity... hum... how many power stations are going to be required? How many wind turbines? It takes fossil fuel to build those. , plus all the copper and metals being needed to build those electric engines..whose digging that out of the ground? destroying the earth.. Who's machinery are using fossil fuel? Not to mention the other metals that have to be melted in fossil fired smelting plants that ... smoke... plus lets see all those electric harvesters extracting the corn and food from the fields... oh and have you seen a 100% electric airliner or cruise ship... just because you don't "see" it smoking, with electricity it does take fossil fuels to make it go... ok.. so you say.. solar is free energy from light.. can store it in batteries that lithium ion..or lead acid batteries.. well it takes machinery to extract those minerals to make that solar panel, plastic is made from oil... Plastics are made from raw materials like natural gas, oil or plants, which are refined into ethane and propane. Ethane and propane are then treated with heat in a process called “cracking” which turns them into ethylene and propylene. These materials are combined together to create different polymers. ,,, Then there is the issue with recycling plastic... yes, but it takes heat and energy and more chemicals to recycle plastic.. which uses more fossil fuels...

So since almost everything is made in plastic these days.. including solar panels... dependency on oil or fossil fuel is far from over... Electric vehicles may be beneficial and reduce the emissions and it may make you feel better that you are doing something good for the environment. But if you really thought about it, it is causing more pollution that you realize. The only true self sustaining earth friendly method of transportation is the horse.. but then it takes heat and metal to build horseshoes...
 

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It appears Harley-Davidson is 20 years ahead of Honda on this issue. Who would have ever thunk it? :LOL:


382927
 

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Gas pumps run on... Electricity.

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Very true, our region had a derecho a few years back and shut down the whole region. Travelers was sleeping in parking lots because they could not get gasoline to continue their trips. Hotels that had power filled quickly. People could not get gasoline to operate thier portable generators. Many of the potential problems mentioned here is not unique to the production and use of EVs.
 

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Does anyone believe that the power grid that essentially started in the late eighteen hundreds anticipated all of the demand that is currently placed on it today? Of course not. None of the high electrical demand appliances in use today had even been invented. The power grid that serviced less than fifty million people in the 1800's with no appliances, is drastically different than that of today that service over 335 million with major power consuming appliances. It's a given that the power grid has and will continue to be upgraded to meet current and future demand. That is nothing new.
In this case, the grid includes everything starting with your homes fuse box and all the way to your power supplier which could be in a different State. All within 30 years, not 200.

I am not saying I'm totally against electric vehicles, they have their place. But the people that think everything will be replaced by EV within a very short time period and the environment will be 100% better off because of it are fools.
 

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Great idea, that way when the electric grid fails you won't be able to travel either. At least now you can get into your car and drive if the power goes out. I don't think people in power with a specific agenda even bother to think about the ripple effect to the rest of society.
In FL when a Hurricane comes through, we have that ripple effect all the time. No power for the gas stations, none for the grocery stores, restaurants, cash machines, traffic lights, water pumps for water. Basically an entire area shuts down. Fortunately, newer gas stations have generators to power their pumps and business.
 

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The OP made a specific reference (as shown below) and asked the following questions.

So will motorcycles go to a hydrogen fuel cell configuration instead of batteries?
Reply: If you are referring to the year 2040, the answer is, I don’ care (age related) but to be fair, and answer the question, I don’t know. There are several options some sci fi related.

Is the current Goldwing the final internal-combustion Goldwing?
Reply: No. The goal is 2040 so that’s some 19 years away there is plenty of time for a “last internal-combustion wing”.

Now, some follow-up: The opening statement in this thread was the following:

“Honda is targeting sales of 100% zero emissions electrified vehicles in North American by 2040.”

And while I am sure it has been addressed in previous posts, I will summarize my comments here.

Unless the “electrified” vehicle has its battery charged from a set of standalone (not connected to the grid) solar panels or a standalone wind turbine (again not connected to the gird) or a stand alone nuclear power plant (again not connected to the grid), then Honda cannot fulfill that goal.

This is obvious to the casual observer. It is a misleading statement and more about “optics” than reality.

But let’s go one step further. You have a standalone electric source that does not produce CO2 as it generates the required energy to charge the vehicles battery (this assumes that any charging you do has to be from this type of source, anytime you use another CO2 producing source it negates the notion of “zero emissions” and makes Honda’s goal and statement so much balderdash).

There is the notion of the energy and CO2 generated to produce the battery used in this “electrified” vehicle. The link below shows that the energy required to make the battery will take 8 years to equate to driving a fossil fuel powered vehicle.

Again this assumes that the “grid” used to produce the batteries is not 100% CO2 production free (highly unlikely by 2040).

Below are two of several articles I found in a simple search. In general, what the articles state are that battery powered electric vehicles do not benefit the environment based on a reduction in CO2 emissions.

It is to be noted, the batteries used in electric cars were also included in the study. The research identified that the minute an electric car is produced, up to 17.5 tons of carbon dioxide has been emitted in batteries of standard size. However, the larger the size of the battery the more carbon dioxide will be emitted.

Large CO2 Emissions From the Batteries of Electric Cars | Earth Eclipse

Study: Tesla Car Battery Production Releases As Much CO2 As 8 Years Of Driving On Gas

 

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Gas pumps run on... Electricity.

Sent from my moto g stylus using Tapatalk
Generators run on fuel and create electricity. Eliminating fossil fuels is stupid. It also takes a bunch of fossil fuels to generate electricity to put on the grid.
 

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In this case, the grid includes everything starting with your homes fuse box and all the way to your power supplier which could be in a different State. All within 30 years, not 200.

I am not saying I'm totally against electric vehicles, they have their place. But the people that think everything will be replaced by EV within a very short time period and the environment will be 100% better off because of it are fools.
I was referring to products that have become popular or common place in just a little over the last century, not things that has been out for 200 years. Sure many has had to upgrade their electrical service to take advantage of some of them, and the national grid has had to be upgraded to accommodate it. What's new?
 

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The OP made a specific reference (as shown below) and asked the following questions.

So will motorcycles go to a hydrogen fuel cell configuration instead of batteries?
Reply: If you are referring to the year 2040, the answer is, I don’ care (age related) but to be fair, and answer the question, I don’t know. There are several options some sci fi related.

Is the current Goldwing the final internal-combustion Goldwing?
Reply: No. The goal is 2040 so that’s some 19 years away there is plenty of time for a “last internal-combustion wing”.

Now, some follow-up: The opening statement in this thread was the following:

“Honda is targeting sales of 100% zero emissions electrified vehicles in North American by 2040.”

And while I am sure it has been addressed in previous posts, I will summarize my comments here.

Unless the “electrified” vehicle has its battery charged from a set of standalone (not connected to the grid) solar panels or a standalone wind turbine (again not connected to the gird) or a stand alone nuclear power plant (again not connected to the grid), then Honda cannot fulfill that goal.

This is obvious to the casual observer. It is a misleading statement and more about “optics” than reality.

But let’s go one step further. You have a standalone electric source that does not produce CO2 as it generates the required energy to charge the vehicles battery (this assumes that any charging you do has to be from this type of source, anytime you use another CO2 producing source it negates the notion of “zero emissions” and makes Honda’s goal and statement so much balderdash).

There is the notion of the energy and CO2 generated to produce the battery used in this “electrified” vehicle. The link below shows that the energy required to make the battery will take 8 years to equate to driving a fossil fuel powered vehicle.

Again this assumes that the “grid” used to produce the batteries is not 100% CO2 production free (highly unlikely by 2040).

Below are two of several articles I found in a simple search. In general, what the articles state are that battery powered electric vehicles do not benefit the environment based on a reduction in CO2 emissions.

It is to be noted, the batteries used in electric cars were also included in the study. The research identified that the minute an electric car is produced, up to 17.5 tons of carbon dioxide has been emitted in batteries of standard size. However, the larger the size of the battery the more carbon dioxide will be emitted.

Large CO2 Emissions From the Batteries of Electric Cars | Earth Eclipse

Study: Tesla Car Battery Production Releases As Much CO2 As 8 Years Of Driving On Gas

I have no opinion as to weather this is true or not, but I have seen it debunked in many articles. It could be true in countries that burn coal or other high co2 emitting fuels to produce them. Other countries that use nuclear, wind, hydro electric, and other cleaner forms of energy, the same would not be true. It also tends to put the manufacturing process against the tailpipe emissions of a ice vehicle. Let's remember ice vehicles also has a manufacturing process and overall it's only 10-15% cleaner than that of EVs. But EVs will typically be responsible for 55% fewer emissions over the life of the car.

The source of where the power is generated will ultimately determine how green the car is. It's TRUE for both ice and EVs alike. I.e. Gasoline produced from tar sands would emit more co2 than those that are not, electricity produced from coal would emit more co2 than those produced from other sources. My belief is that both will coexist for quite some time. ( probably my lifetime) but these decisions was made for the future, not today.
 

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Generators run on fuel and create electricity. Eliminating fossil fuels is stupid. It also takes a bunch of fossil fuels to generate electricity to put on the grid.
I didn't know we were talking about eliminating fossil fuels. I don't see that happening for a very long time. Fossil fuels will go away when there is a better, cheaper way to create usable power. I would think that is at least a couple decades away.

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I didn't know we were talking about eliminating fossil fuels. I don't see that happening for a very long time. Fossil fuels will go away when there is a better, cheaper way to create usable power. I would think that is at least a couple decades away.

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Fossil fuels may be reduced greatly for transportation, specifically small scale like cars, bikes, etc., but it seems unlikely to be replacing ships, planes and trains for a long time, if ever. According to the DEA, transportation of ALL types consumes only 6% of all hydrocarbons produced, the rest going to creating energy, as you say, and nearly all man-made products in the form of chemical feedstocks.
 

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Toyota (the current global leader in PHEV vehicles) is the only major manufacturer willing to speak the ignored truth. There isn't enough charging infrastructure to transition to EVs. The power grid can't take the load, and we need a lot more generation capacity. Switching Great Britain to solar-supplied EVs would require covering over half of Britain's total land mass with solar panels.

Further, all the lithium and other rare earth metals IN THE WORLD would barely make enough batteries for Britain's requirements.

Lastly, EVs will, for the foreseeable future, be a niche product for highly developed, highly industrialized nations. In the great majority of the world, there's barely infrastructure to distribute fuel, much less charging of EVs. A village on a ridgeline in the middle of Turkmenistan is not going to charging EVs until there's refrigerator sized fusion reactors.

Most of the world barely has electricty, much less reliable, high amperage electricity for EV charging. How many EVs do you think this would support charging?

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Over the years increased demand for electricity was met with projects such a the Tennessee Valley Act and the building of new coal-fired and nuclear powered generating plants. Those type of projects would be impossible to begin today. It's even difficult to obtain permitting for large scale wind and solar electricity generating projects. I'm surprised the environmentalists haven't attacked the use of batteries because the batteries give off heat as they are recharged. And then there's the issue of human breathing because we exhale CO2 and expel methane gas. Toyota isn't the only company willing to speak the ignored truth; Elon Musk, the driving force behind Tesla, has also repeatedly raised concern about our ability to meet the increasing demand for electricity as more electric vehicles come into use.
 

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Over the years increased demand for electricity was met with projects such a the Tennessee Valley Act and the building of new coal-fired and nuclear powered generating plants. Those type of projects would be impossible to begin today. It's even difficult to obtain permitting for large scale wind and solar electricity generating projects. I'm surprised the environmentalists haven't attacked the use of batteries because the batteries give off heat as they are recharged. And then there's the issue of human breathing because we exhale CO2 and expel methane gas. Toyota isn't the only company willing to speak the ignored truth; Elon Musk, the driving force behind Tesla, has also repeatedly raised concern about our ability to meet the increasing demand for electricity as more electric vehicles come into use.
Don't give them any ideas. :oops: I've often wondered what would happen if you told a feminist environmentalist that 20% of global warming and landfill use is due to fashion, and the churn of textile and leather processing every year due only to "what colors are in style"...
 

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Most of the world barely has electricty, much less reliable, high amperage electricity for EV charging. How many EVs do you think this would support charging?

View attachment 383052
Most of the world barely have cars. Countries that are unlikely to have the capacity to support charging EVs are also unlikely to have the capacity to fuel ICE powered vehicles. Automobile saturation is only about 18% of the world's population.
 
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