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To those of you CSC owners who have written me personally and asked questions that I could not answer; I apologize. However, I think the information that I'm posting this evening might shed some light on your predicament. To those of you CSC owners who only respond to my post with emotion, and no investigative information, I offer no apology.

Some of you have attacked me; questioning my motives. I have no motive, short of making every CSC trike owner on this board more knowledgeable about what might happen in the future concerning your CSC trike: but safety is my primary crux. My dad once told me that the only way that one can predict one's future is to look back at one's past. With CSC's past, his advice is "dead-on".

I’m not going go back and rehash information that we’ve covered concerning the Gen. 1 design. Honda has begun shipping the GL1500/Valkyrie replacement yokes; so replacing the original yoke, along with some good preventive maintenance on the rzeppa joint (CV joint), you 1st Gen. owners are actually in better shape than the 2nd Gen. guys. Their issue is more expensive to fix, and gives absolutely NO warning.

The purpose of this post is to fulfill a promise I made to several of you, who called or wrote, asking for some real truth. The following is a letter I received today, from a well known and respected installer. Some of you know him. For those of you who do, I understand he’s a straight up guy. I met him several months ago when I was calling on, and visiting dealers and installers, concerning the new CSC driveline issue.

Believe me friends, this UH-Oh could end up costing CSC a LOT of money, and they know it. They are attempting to fix their latest engineering and design snafu with a band-aid. Band-aids are cheap. A complete re-design will cost them a lot of money. Why do they need a complete redesign, you ask? Read the letter I received only today explaining the present CSC situation.

First of all, I will not divulge this installer’s identity. This was an understanding that I made with him, up front. This is the only way that professionals, whose livelihood depends on trike sales, will come forward. Most all I’ve spoke to know that something smells, and they’re all begging for the true fix; not a band-aid.

Remember, there is now common knowledge that trikes are breaking down, even after the modified collars and springs are attached. Remember, only CSC has the actual records of how many collars and springs they’ve shipped. Short of a court order, they’re not going to release the numbers; and after the way they’ve treated their broke down customers; who would believe them? They misled a personal friend of mine who inquired before he broke down and they told him there was no problem/s with the CSC driveline design. Weeks later, after he broke down with sheared splines, they provided him the collar and spring mod. How can you R&D something like that so fast? Remember, we also reported that the company made dealers and installers aware of the drivelines failures late last fall. But they told my friend months later that there was NO problem. When he asked why the rubber disk was splitting, they told him it was normal. BTW, the splitting rear rubber disk just might be your first red flag that’s something bad is about to happen. The writer below explains why the rubber disk cracks and splits and my common sense tells me it just might be the indicator you’re looking for.

Remember folks, from what we’ve learned, the 2nd. Gen. driveline gives no prior indications before the splined gears shear; short of a very slight vibration in the seat of your pants.


The following is the letter I received today from a CSC installer:
“As a CSC installer, our opinion is that the 'inline' driveline failures they are experiencing now are a result of the fact that even the offset gearbox (as you call it, the transfer case) on the rear end is not truly 'inline' with the Honda transmission output shaft, it is off horizontally enough that when the driveshaft is installed it has to be forced into place, and ends up with a lot of lateral stress on it. The problem occurs on the end where the original GL 1800 shaft slips over the short CSC intermittent shaft on the trike kit gearbox. No matter how much grease or what type of grease is used, when there is any space for movement there, and a spinning shaft under load is allowed to 'work' on it's splines because of all the lateral stress it is under….. eventually the splines erode, and this is what is happening. Also likely explains why all the rubber discs seem to be cracked so badly, as the lateral forces are constantly acting on the intermediate shaft, which bolts to the gear box thru that rubber disc. The failure in most cases seems to happen somewhere between 10-25 thousand miles. We know of one installer near us who has a customer who is on his second new Honda shaft because in about 50k miles his trike has stripped the splines out twice. First time was without the collar/spring upgrade, and the second one was with it.

The collar/spring 'fix' or 'upgrade' that CSC offered previously (starting back in Nov '09) was because they thought that the problem was that the driveshaft was trying to work it's way toward coming off the intermediate shaft, and when the intermediate shaft was no longer inserted sufficiently into the driveshaft, the lateral stresses would be too much and the wear would then occur. The collar/spring was intended to prevent the driveshaft from sliding back, and therefore stop that from occurring. Turns out that is not the whole issue, as the wear is still happening even after that fix is applied. Because this is a design issue and not just a parts failure, we feel it is almost inevitable that once they get enough miles on them, almost all Cobras with the inline driveshaft will have this problem to some degree. It also means that to properly address the problem would require a change in the driveline (and therefore significant cost) for CSC. It is likely that at this time, the # of problems being reported has not justified the cost of a proper design fix for existing trikes, so they are trying to find something low cost that can be easily retrofitted that would address it without making a large change in the driveline....while hopefully also making a proper design change so that all new kits being sold will not have this same problem down the road.

We have ideas for a fixes that would be relatively easy to do for future kits, as well as one for the retrofit of the existing trikes. But the engineers in this industry, at least in our experience, though they seem to have incredible intelligence and ability to design and build things....are also somewhat arrogant, stubborn, short-sighted, and have far less real world knowledge, common sense and 'outside the box' problem solving ability. So unfortunately, suggestions from us lowly installers seem to fall on deaf ears most of the time, and after a while you kinda give up on making them.”

Sorry this post is so long.

Ride safe,

Wayne



 

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First, thank you Wayne for you efforts to inform CSC riders like myself. Being one that broke down with worn splines, the letter you received makes sense. As I have said before, CSC seems to want to continue to say nothing is wrong. At this point, I believe that CSC has their head in the sand just hoping this will pass. Keep up the good work, hopefully, if we continue to keep this alive, CSC will stand up and do the honorable thing.
 

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Thanks for all your hard work. I have had problems with the factory telling little white lies so took the trike to them where they still tryed to fib. After a heated discussion they then fixed it.
 

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Wayne, thanks for this post. I don't have a CSC Trike but my brother-in-law does and this could prove helpfull, also thank the installer who took the time to respond to this problem. We all know that no trike kit is perfect, all at one time or another will have a problem. Knowledgeable information for all trike kits is surely welcome. Thanks again my friend, Charley :thumbup::thumbup:
 

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First, thank you Wayne for you efforts to inform CSC riders like myself. Being one that broke down with worn splines, the letter you received makes sense. As I have said before, CSC seems to want to continue to say nothing is wrong. At this point, I believe that CSC has their head in the sand just hoping this will pass. Keep up the good work, hopefully, if we continue to keep this alive, CSC will stand up and do the honorable thing.

Great work Wayne. I agree with Re-connected the way to change a corporate attitude to hit them in the wallet. I had my installer install an aux fuel tank and he had a Cobra in the shop with spline problem. At 25k I have had mine apart two times for service and have not seen a problem but have not payed much attention to the flex disc.. I hope CSC will step up on this.
 

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As a CSC 2nd Gen. owner. THIS FU**ING SUCKS! Now, you want to get CSC's attention? Do the right thing and contact the NHSTB! If no one reports any failures, nothing will be done. Once an investigation starts, CSC would get called on the carpet. The same as an auto manufacturer would. Tom :biker:
 

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I can attest that CSC is not the only arrogant trike manufacturer. :agree: every CSC owner with a failure MUST report to the NHTSB. It is the only way CSC will be humbled, and by extension the trike industry as a whole. This is more that paint blistering. Trike manufacturers count on no one going the distance. They think that by stonewalling the customer you'll get so frustrated that you'll go away.
I applaud the kahoanies of the installer that contacted Wayne. He in essence is a whistle blower. We all know what happens to those people in todays business world. I personally know an installer who put the customer first and fought the trike manufactures and their insane anti-customer policies regarding broken parts, and bad installs. He's no longer in business.:wrong:
Mike
Keep up the good work Wayne!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbup:
 

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Another group that CSC owners might ought to contact is CSC.
 

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enough is enough... Wayne, stop trying to spread more BULL! An un-signed letter is just "HEAR SAY". If your so called "Installer" was any kind of a person he would say who he is and sign it. So until then all you have is a bunch of BULL.
Now how long have you been "Downing CSC" Wayne? GET OVER IT! Get a life. Your not much of a friend to the people owning CSC's, hear say info and the rest of your BULL. Your knocking their ride, their baby. You wouldn't like it if I said your baby was ugly or bad. I think you owe the good people of this board an apology for being so prejudice toward the CSC’s.
Are you MAD yet Wayne? If you don’t like it, TOUGH
Now lets get back to being civil.

Ken L.
 
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enough is enough... Wayne, stop trying to spread more BULL! An un-signed letter is just "HEAR SAY". If your so called "Installer" was any kind of a person he would say who he is and sign it. So until then all you have is a bunch of BULL.
Now how long have you been "Downing CSC" Wayne? GET OVER IT! Get a life. Your not much of a friend to the people owning CSC's, hear say info and the rest of your BULL. Your knocking their ride, their baby. You wouldn't like it if I said your baby was ugly or bad. I think you owe the good people of this board an apology for being so prejudice toward the CSC’s.
Are you MAD yet Wayne? If you don’t like it, TOUGH
Now lets get back to being civil.

Ken L.
Big Man, How about you taking some of the civil medicine, you don't sound to good Buddy.
 

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Big Man, How about you taking some of the civil medicine, you don't sound to good Buddy.

I'll tell you the same thing;

IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, TOUGH

Ken L.
 

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Since a prior members views have been brought up, I wonder if the Hannigan salesman who had a lot of negative comments to say about CSC kits and sometimes their owners, who also wouldn't even own up to being a Hannigan employee, I sometimes wonder if he is back at his old tricks. :shrug:

:popcorn:
 
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