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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
2005 3-WHEEL
APPROX 210,00 ON THE ODM

This Wing came in with the seat, shelter, fuel tank, and the starter removed. So the first picture is looking into the starter hole prior to doing anything.

The customer reports that a few months ago all was working fine, including reverse. Then, one day it would not start. Another shop makes it start, but after it was stated, the shop reports that reverse was now not working. .

After returning home from a trip, one day the starter would spin, but it would not turn the engine over. The customer removed the starter, and found all the teeth on gear that engages into the reverse idler gear were all corn-cobbed.

3-4 years prior, the starter was replaced with an OEM Honda starter. The replacement OEM starter with the corn-cobbed gear was thrown out.

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Is this engine toast? Or did he metal parts find their way to the sump and cause no further damage? It sure looks like carnage....
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Is this engine toast? Or did he metal parts find their way to the sump and cause no further damage? It sure looks like carnage....
It's hard to really know without taking it farther apart. However, what usually happens is that metal gets past the pickup screen, past the oil filter, and from there it is hard to predict. With an engine that has that many miles on it, it can easily need new main, rod bearing, and oil pump.
 

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It's hard to really know without taking it further apart. However, what usually happens is that metal gets past the pickup screen, past the oil filter, and from there it is hard to predict. With an engine that has that many miles on it, it can easily need new main, rod bearing, and oil pump.
How many miles on this engine? Any sort of suspected root cause to the failure?
 

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GL1800 Doctor
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2005 3-WHEEL
APPROX 210,00 ON THE ODM

This Wing came in with the seat, shelter, fuel tank, and the starter removed. So the first picture is looking into the starter hole prior to doing anything.

The customer reports that a few months ago all was working fine, including reverse. Then, one day it would not start. Another shop makes it start, but after reports that reverse was not working. .

After returning home from a trip, one day the starter would spin, but it would not turn the engine over. The customer removed the starter, and found all the teeth on gear that engages into the reverse idler gear were all corn-cobbed.

3-4 years prior, the starter was replaced with an OEM Honda starter. The replacement OEM starter with the corn-cobbed gear was thrown out.

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Greg, is that an aftermarket starter? It looks like the remains of one of the ones with a setscrew in the splines. It must have taken an incredible amount of force to shear that shaft off if it’s OEM. Is the starter clutch locked or stuck?

 

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And this is the reason that I became an oil/filter changeohlic ...............I want a new filter on my bike always.............

Thanks for posting Gregg
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
And this is the reason that I became an oil/filter changeohlic ...............I want a new filter on my bike always.............

Thanks for posting Gregg
I'm really surprised that someone is not asking why the reverse gear, that is all black, is that color ??? My bet says that the your reverse idler looks like new cast iron ... and it always will !!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Greg, is that an aftermarket starter? It looks like the remains of one of the ones with a setscrew in the splines. It must have taken an incredible amount of force to shear that shaft off if it’s OEM. Is the starter clutch locked or stuck?
I'm not sure. I'll compare it to the end of an OEM starter and see what I can tell. I've never seen one with a set screw in the splines. Are you saying that some aftermarket ones come with a set screw here ... or thereabouts ???

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GL1800 Doctor
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I'm not sure. I'll compare it to the end of an OEM starter and see what I can tell. I've never seen one with a set screw in the splines. Are you saying that some aftermarket ones come with a set screw here ... or thereabouts ???

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Yes, and it can and will fall out inside the engine! There was a post in the last couple of years where a person had bought one and the setscrew came out and the engine couldn’t start or it couldn’t back up, I don’t remember the exact failure. I believe it was a rebuilt starter and the rebuilder said they are all like that, nuts!
 

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This kind of work requires a wrench like Greg for sure. (y)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Yes, and it can and will fall out inside the engine! There was a post in the last couple of years where a person had bought one and the setscrew came out and the engine couldn’t start or it couldn’t back up, I don’t remember the exact failure. I believe it was a rebuilt starter and the rebuilder said they are all like that, nuts!
Thanks for posting the link below.

There were 2 things I noticed when I removed the splined end. The first was the continuation of the splines, and the other was the centering hole, for machining, in the end of what should be a shaft. Because of the picture in that other link, it appears that this is indeed an aftermarket starter. Both the one in the picture from the link, and the stub retrieved have splines that "run-on." Also, the chamfer it at a different. A slight difference in the chafer can make a starter more challenging to install ... I wonder if that's why some will draw them in with the starters mount bolts. The bottom picture is a good comparison of their chamfers.

In general, Honda makes a "very refined" product, and it's all those small details that distinguishes a Honda OEM part from a none OEM part.

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GL1800 Doctor
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Thanks for posting the link below.

There were 2 things I noticed when I removed the splined end. The first was the continuation of the splines, and the other was the centering hole, for machining, in the end of what should be a shaft. Because of the picture in that other link, it appears that this is indeed an aftermarket starter. Both the one in the picture from the link, and the stub retrieved have splines that "run-on." Also, the chamfer it at a different. A slight difference in the chafer can make a starter more challenging to install ... I wonder if that's why some will draw them in with the starters mount bolts. The bottom picture is a good comparison of their chamfers.

In general, Honda makes a "very refined" product.

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Have you run across a small set screw in the rear of that engine block, it’s there or what’s left of it is there somewhere.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Have you run across a small set screw in the rear of that engine block, it’s there or what’s left of it is there somewhere.
Not yet ... but I've been eyeballing this since I've taken the rear case off. I have a call into the customer and waiting for him to stop by, so he can see what I see.

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SO FAULTY STARTER OR INSTALL . IS SET SCREW FACTORY THING AND COULD / SHOULD BE CHECKED AT INSTALL
 

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GL1800 Doctor
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SO FAULTY STARTER OR INSTALL . IS SET SCREW FACTORY THING AND COULD / SHOULD BE CHECKED AT INSTALL
No, no factory 1800 starter has a setscrew. This is a rebuild or aftermarket starter that has caused all this damage. Save $300 on a starter, spend $2000+ to fix the aftermath…:mad:
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
No, no factory 1800 starter has a setscrew. This is a rebuild or aftermarket starter that has caused all this damage. Save $300 on a starter, spend $2000+ to fix the aftermath…:mad:
The eBay guy selling these starters is going to his bank thinking cha ching, cha ching, cha ching !!! For anyone who's considering using rebuilt starters, alternators, or starter solenoids, see my post

 
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