[HardBall]

I know that low-siding means you leaned too much.

What I have not figured out is how you know how far you can go without going down. It depends on the tires and the suspension and the load and the road and technique. That seems obvious. But how does a great rider like Yellow Wolf and others on our board feel confident laying it over so far when most of the rest of us get excited when the pegs scrape a little?

I run on Metzler tires and have the complete Traxxion upgrades. I know my bike handles well. At the Gap my pegs scrape on most of the turns. I always have visions of losing traction and sliding though.

 

[ford68xl]

Great question! I have the same thoughts. Hopefully someone can tell us.

 

[Dorian_Blue]

Man, that's a tough question. My limit was found the first time I scraped the header cowls. In spite of the anti-dive technology the front of the bike dives considerably under load (no brakes) when you are seriously getting it on in the technical roads. When I was riding Hwy 36 in NorCal and felt the left side header cowl hit the pavement and the bike literally jumped sideways a few inches, I learned that my limit was just before that point. Believe it or not I can remember where that "no-go" point is and can sense when I am approaching it.

When I'm riding two up the scraping of the pegs is my back-off point. When I'm riding alone the feel of my pegs scraping tells me I'm getting into the zone. The pucker factor seems to kick in automatically when I've found the limit and I don't exceed it. My lower cowl and both header cowls have plenty of scrapes on the underside. The tires are not the limitation for the lean, its the hardware. Even with all the scrapes on my cowls I've yet to shred the edge of the tread on the tires. I still have about 1/8" of chicken stripes.

 

[lomax]

I may be wrong, usually am, But this is my take on leaning on the wing. This thing will start dragging parts way before you run out of tires. I would use the drivers footpegs or your foot to gauge how much lean you can safely do. When ya start dragging stuff then that is about good.

With the Traxxion upgrade you should be able to lean over a bit further than us mortals before thing start to drag. I think you should still be OK unless you do something foolish like hit the brakes when leaned over.

Now YellowWolf on the other hand can get off the side and drag a knee on the wing thus reducing the lean angle while still getting the center of gravity lower in the turn. This allows a faster entry speed which I know that this old fart will not be matching any time soon. :roll:

Just remember, Braking is all done before entering the turn. Slow in, roll on at the apex and fast out while being smooth all the way around.

Cheers.
Marc

 

[UBoat]

Hardball,

Please pardon me for hijacking your thread but I'd like to add to your question by asking about leaning in the rain on wet streets/roads. From personal experience, I know that what few warnings you have in the dry that you are too far over are totally different (or non-existent ) in the wet. Best I can tell, you have to actually go down to know where the limit is for the current conditions. A less than preferrable way of finding the "hairy" edge, so to speak. I'm a very conservative rider in the wet. You can read "chicken" for conservative in the previous sentence but I still am out there no matter the weather.

 

[Italian Stallion]

Lomax (Marc),

Although most of what you said is correct, I find a question about applying the brakes before you turn. I mostly do that, but I've also mastered the technique of braking into the turn called "trail braking". If done correctly, and this comes with lots of experience, there are times when I am a bit hot coming into a turn and use the trail braking method very successfully. This was accomplished by the many, many visits I had to the fabulous mountain turns of West Virginia.

Of course other factors have to be considered when riding at elevated speeds in turns, and mostly is the condition of the road surface and its clenliness, ie: gravel.

Ride safely and above all enjoy the twisties, that's what motorcycling is all about.

Mike

 

[Red]

Leaning - How Do You Know How Much?

You know you are pushing the envelope when solid mounted hard parts are dragging.

 

[KCButch]

If you get a chance to watch Rick (Yellow Wolf) run the Gap you will notice that his riding style is very similar to that of Professional Road Racers, in that he transfers his body on the seat to the inside of the turn allowing him to be more agressive without as much bike lean. With that said you can ask him and I am sure that he will tell you he still goes through more footpegs in a year than any of us do in a lifetime.
While I dont recommend trying to emulate his riding style to the untrained rider, it is awesome to watch!

 

[Dep]

You folks with the 70 series rear tire, how much does this help you ground clearance wise?

Dep

 

[Rastoff]

In spite of the anti-dive technology the front of the bike dives considerably under load (no brakes) when you are seriously getting it on in the technical roads.

The anti-dive only works when the brakes are applied. So, if you are just using engine brake, your bike will dive. Just be aware of it and you won't have any trouble.

I'm not an adrenaline junkie. When my pegs scrape I've reached the limit of the rider and that's the most important thing. You have to ride within your own limits. Additionally, I've only scraped my pegs once. If I have to scrape, I've going too fast, but that's just me.

 

[David M.]

Try to get setup for the turn before you get there. You want to accelerate slightly during the entire turn and a little harder just before the apex. The pegs scraping is a good point to set as a limit, but one can continue harder until the crash guards and muffler covers start to scrape -- I think that is our physical limit.

The more you lean, the higher the speed you can carry through the curve. Be advised that you have to really be careful on unknown roads due to decreasing radius curves that can come up and bite you.

Just my opinion.
David M.

 

[John Garner]

For me: When my shoes start dragging. They stick out more than the pegs. Now with the Traxxion solution, I find more lean room.

The reduced traction from rain or wet conditions makes me take it down a notch. So, in the interests of safety, here are two fun facts:

Ice comes in 3 forms:
1 - white, which you can see
2 - brown, from wet leaves, which you can see
3 - black, which you cannot see until the OH, S$!T moment

Watch out for freeze - thaw cycles, especially north of the M-D line.

Second: The amount of traction for a curve varies with the square of the speed, so if it takes X traction for 15 mph, it takes 4X at 30 and 9X at 45 for the same turn! Slowing down just a bit can be the difference between making a turn or not. You can never enter a turn too slowly & have a problem, but too high & you may have a serious problem.

Too bad this stuff is not in the new ERC!

 

[ataDude]

If you get a chance to watch Rick (Yellow Wolf) run the Gap you will notice that his riding style is very similar to that of Professional Road Racers, in that he transfers his body on the seat to the inside of the turn allowing him to be more agressive without as much bike lean. With that said you can ask him and I am sure that he will tell you he still goes through more footpegs in a year than any of us do in a lifetime.
While I dont recommend trying to emulate his riding style to the untrained rider, it is awesome to watch!

Yepper... I was just going to say that dragging the pegs doesn't mean the limit. Shift your weght and pick up more clearance. :wink:

.

 

[Snoopy]

You have to be really careful if you decide to try tailbraking, remembering the wing has linked brakes if you apply the rear you also apply some front brake which can cause the nose to dip. Instead of leaning much passed the point that the pegs scrape learn to shift your weight in the seat to lessen your lean angle. The smoother you are through the curve the faster your exit speed will be.

 

[azblackbird]

This thing will start dragging parts way before you run out of tires.

Yep... if you really want to test the waters pull your crash guards off and let it lean :wink:

 

[lomax]

Lomax (Marc),

Although most of what you said is correct, I find a question about applying the brakes before you turn. I mostly do that, but I've also mastered the technique of braking into the turn called "trail braking". If done correctly, and this comes with lots of experience, there are times when I am a bit hot coming into a turn and use the trail braking method very successfully.

Mike

Right you are Mike but I was speaking to the normal everyday rider. You can also squeeze hard on the front binders going into a turn and back it in (well maybe not with linked brakes DOH!), but I would not recommend that either without MUCHO practice.

Remember that a tire under any circumstance has 100% traction. If you are using 90% of that to hold it in a turn and apply 20% braking then you are going down. If you can use 75% in the turn and 20% braking then you are OK. It takes MANY years to find that balance so I stick with my initial statement to NOT brake in the turn. :wink: So there.

This is also true in the rain but please remember that your 100% traction will be much less than on dry pavement. Be especially careful in about the first 15 minutes to 1/2 hour when it starts to rain as the oils in the pavement will be rising to the surface making it slicker.

And remember my advice is worth exactly what you just paid for it. :lol:

Dang where is that spell checker?

Cheers.
Marc

 

[azjerry]

As said above, you'll hit hard parts before you run out of tire. It really isn't very far from pegs to crash bars on this bike. I never thought about removing the crash guards but you would still tear up the lower exhaust covers anyway.

 

[IFLY]

If your looking for safe Slow in fast out !

 

[IFLY]

Hey yellowolf can you really hang off so far as to drag knee ?

 

[salyzyn]

If you get a chance to watch Rick (Yellow Wolf) run the Gap you will notice that his riding style is very similar to that of Professional Road Racers, in that he transfers his body on the seat to the inside of the turn allowing him to be more agressive without as much bike lean.!

I was following directly behind you on the trialsman ride at Wingstock.

My co-rider was yacking with me about twisty riding technique when I mentioned how Rick rides. So she asked me to demonstrate, so I hung off the sides for each turn and effectively stopped my pegs from occasionally dragging. Did not mean much to her. To demonstrate how much it helped, half way through one of the turns I got back into the saddle and at that apex firmly planted the rivco side stand foot into the turn; dragged that aluminum for at least 2 seconds hard.

Someone blurted on the CB "Who's the showoff' or some such. I was just experimenting, this was actually the first time I had ever done twisties downhill ... the first time in a group ride too. Downhill did require me to change my braking technique. Braking was even more important as I was riding KCButch's @$$ within pennies at times and any sudden changes in his riding would have met with some entanglements.

Bet you didn't know how close I was to taking you down eh? :shock: