GL1800Riders Forums banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
847 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Anybody read the latest issue of MCN? They listed the top motorcycle companies in sales. Harley has beaten Honda for 1st place again. Yamaha is in 3rd and closing the gap on Honda. Maybe this will get Hondas attention.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,789 Posts
Is that in North America only? Cruisers only? I can't believe that in a world-wide market or when taking sport-bikes, dirt-bikes, and others into consideration that HD would come anywhere near Honda's market share.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
847 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
tjshelton said:
Is that in North America only? Cruisers only? I can't believe that in a world-wide market or when taking sport-bikes, dirt-bikes, and others into consideration that HD would come anywhere near Honda's market share.
Harley has a 57% market share of the crusier market. Honda does a much greater volume on dirt bikes, which declined this year. They are losing ground to Yamaha in the cruiser market as is Harley.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,789 Posts
Hawkmoon said:
tjshelton said:
Is that in North America only? Cruisers only? I can't believe that in a world-wide market or when taking sport-bikes, dirt-bikes, and others into consideration that HD would come anywhere near Honda's market share.
Harley has a 57% market share of the crusier market. Honda does a much greater volume on dirt bikes, which declined this year. They are losing ground to Yamaha in the cruiser market as is Harley.
Do they include the Wing and ST1300 in the Cruiser market, and if so, do they exclude the Ultra from HD's Cruiser numbers? Do they include Buell as a sport-bike?
 

·
Chard Member
Joined
·
12,963 Posts
tjshelton said:
Do they include the Wing and ST1300 in the Cruiser market, and if so, do they exclude the Ultra from HD's Cruiser numbers? Do they include Buell as a sport-bike?
Does it upset you that the Motor Company out sold Honda in the United States again? It probably upsets you there are more Harleys finishing the Iron Butt than Hondas. :oops:

Harley has owned the over 600cc market for years. They also own the Touring market. People that don't want to hear that might as well build a bridge and get over it! LMAO....

I'd love to see the actually Touring bike sales numbers, Honda vs Harley. I imagine Harley sells 30 to Honda's 1. :lol:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,439 Posts
I believe that report. Just look at any road in any part of the country and which bikes do you see more of? Yep, that thumping Harley is just about everywhere.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,789 Posts
Red said:
tjshelton said:
Do they include the Wing and ST1300 in the Cruiser market, and if so, do they exclude the Ultra from HD's Cruiser numbers? Do they include Buell as a sport-bike?
Does it upset you that the Motor Company out sold Honda in the United States again? It probably upsets you there are more Harleys finishing the Iron Butt than Hondas. :oops:

Harley has owned the over 600cc market for years. They also own the Touring market. People that don't want to hear that might as well build a bridge and get over it! LMAO....

I'd love to see the actually Touring bike sales numbers, Honda vs Harley. I imagine Harley sells 30 to Honda's 1. :lol:
No, HD sales don't upset me. I think the more riders on the road, the better things will be for all of us, regardless of our brand choice.

Increased market share shouldn't be confused with making a better bike. Numbers don't indicate sales or quality, instead, it just shows that HD has a better marketing arm than does Honda, at least in the U.S.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,789 Posts
Red said:
tjshelton said:
Do they include the Wing and ST1300 in the Cruiser market, and if so, do they exclude the Ultra from HD's Cruiser numbers? Do they include Buell as a sport-bike?
It probably upsets you there are more Harleys finishing the Iron Butt than Hondas. :oops:
A quick check of the last Iron Butt Rally (2005) shows a different story.

19 Hondas (4 ST1300's, 11 GL1800's, 1 GL1100, 2 ST1100's, and 1 VFR 800) started the rally and all but 3 of them (2 of the GL1800's and the GL1100) finished. A guy on an ST1300 placed first in the rally.

2 Harleys started the rally (1 Sportster and 1 FXD). The Sportster finished in 67th place and the FXD didn't complete the rally.

Obviously HD isn't the bike of choice among the top Iron Butt competitors. Actually, neither is Honda. 45 BMW's started and they took 7 out of the top 10 finishes.

Here's the source if you care to check my numbers:

http://www.ironbuttrally.com/IBR/2005/R ... dsLeg3.cfm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,789 Posts
Red said:
tjshelton said:
Here's the source if you care to check my numbers:
You're numbers are fine. I have no reason to dispute them.

What I was talking about is total participants/finishers in the IBA over the years. I was looking at it the other day it. It was Harley #1, Honda #2, and BMW was #3.

http://www.ironbutt.com/rides/ssbbfin1. ... N=85676060
OK. But do you really think towing your bike for 1,000 miles qualifies as an Iron Butt run?
 

·
Chard Member
Joined
·
12,963 Posts
tjshelton said:
OK. But do you really think towing your bike for 1,000 miles qualifies as an Iron Butt run?
Get over it! They build a bike most of America wants to own. You can't help it if you're not normal. LOL.... :wink:

I did my first documented 1000/24 on a '76 Superglide, in '77, before the Iron Butt was around. Did my second one on a Wing in '82.

FYI... I didn't have to trailer either bike. :lol:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
847 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Hey Red nice to see you're feeling better. You're getting your fire back. :lol: :lol: I'm interested to see what Hondas response to this is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,493 Posts
I guess I don't get it.

The MSN article posted facts. It wasn't an opinion piece, it was facts. The bottom line is HD has succeeded in increasing their sales. Why is that so hard to accept?

I am actually very ENCOURAGED by this news.

First of all, I never have bought anything in hopes that I was part of a trend. Unless I am buying stock, I could care less if the whole world wants the same item that I bought. In vehicles, I hope I don't pull into a parking lot and have everyone else driving or riding the same thing that I am.

Next, I suspect that this will be an incentive for Honda to step up. Being number 1 is a very big title that I doubt Honda wants to let go without a fight. Being on top, a business may tend to be more arrogant. Trying to get to the top -- or back on top -- requires focus.

I bet we see Honda get more innovative in the next few years. It won't happen overnight, but I bet there is increased energy being applied.

As for HD, good for them. They are a tremendous success story and I don't begrudge that to anyone (except my competitors). :wink:

I am glad that it is an American company that evokes so much passion that people will TATTOO their brand on their body.

.

.

.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
Red said:
tjshelton said:
Do they include the Wing and ST1300 in the Cruiser market, and if so, do they exclude the Ultra from HD's Cruiser numbers? Do they include Buell as a sport-bike?
Does it upset you that the Motor Company out sold Honda in the United States again? It probably upsets you there are more Harleys finishing the Iron Butt than Hondas. :oops:

Harley has owned the over 600cc market for years. They also own the Touring market. People that don't want to hear that might as well build a bridge and get over it! LMAO....

I'd love to see the actually Touring bike sales numbers, Honda vs Harley. I imagine Harley sells 30 to Honda's 1. :lol:
Red when you said "It probably upsets you there are more Harley's finishing the Iron Butt then Honda's". That is a little miss leading. That is only one part of the Iron Butt. I got this from Mike Kneebone.



"When they say that, they are talking about rides beside the Iron Butt
Rally (the 11 day 11,000 mile rally), more like 1,000 mile days...
here is the break down from last year:

Ride Statistics by Motorcycle brand May 2005 (complied by Scott Leahy)

Harley-Davidson 6650
Honda 5917
BMW 4878
Yamaha 1491
Kawasaki 1472
Suzuki 655
Triumph 288
Moto Guzzi 119
Ducati 82
Victory 74
Buell 43
Aprilia 37
Indian 18
KTM 17
Boss Hoss 12
Cagiva 10
Excelsior-Henderson 7
Laverda 5
Norton 4
Ural 4
Volkswagen 3
CA Custom 2
CMC 2
MV 2
Piaggio 2
Moto Morini 1
Big Dog 1
BSA 1
DRS 1
Gilera 1
Hyosung 1
MZ 1
Royal Enfield 1
Titan 1
Tomos 1

In terms of the rally, only a few Harley-Davidsons have finished...
the data for that is attached.

Most miles ever ridden during the Iron Butt Rally:

Year Rider Home Motorcycle Mileage

2001 George Barnes Colorado 1995 BMW K1100LT 13,357
1999 George Barnes Colorado 1995 BMW K1100LT 13,346
1999 Shane Smith Mississippi 1998 Honda ST1100 12,780
1987 Barry Norman Ohio 1984 Yamaha Venture 12,773
1993 Steve Attwood England 1983 Moto GUZZI MKIII 12,458
1995 Gary Eagan Utah BMW K1100LT 12,277
2001 Bob Hall Ohio 2000 BMW R1100RT 12,247
2001 Shane Smith Mississippi 1998 Honda ST1100 12,219
1987 Fran Crane California BMW K100 12,166

2005 Finishers (90 Riders on 90 motorcycles started the rally):
* = rally veteran

For more details on scores, visit www.ironbutt.com/ibr/2003/medals/4.html

Rank Rider Miles State Motorcycle Points

GOLD MEDAL FINISHERS:

* 1 Shane Smith 13,277 MS Honda ST1300 111,834
2 Chris Sakala 12,279 BMW R1150GS-ADV 110,520
* 3 Jeff Earls 11,137 BMW R1150GS 107,558
* 4 Mark Kiecker 13,354 Honda VFR800 106,896
* 5 Jack Savage 11,016 BMW R1150GS 106,005
* 6 Marty Leir 13,256 BMW R1150GS 105,099
7 John Ryan 12,573 BMW K75 101,218
* 8 Eric Jewell 12,081 BMW R1150RT 101,020
* 9 Eddie James 11,066 BMW K1100RS 98,415
*10 Peter Hoogeveen 12,065 Yamaha FJR1300 93,684
*11 Jim & Donna Phillips 12,731 Honda GL1800 91,893
12 Peter Leap 10,686 Honda ST1300 91,841
*13 Allen Dye 12,463 BMW R1150RT 89,777
*14 Tom Loftus 12,079 Honda GL1800 89,694
15 Brian Boberick 11,465 BMW K1200LT 88,915
*16 Tim Conway 12,224 BMW R1150GS 88,754
*17 Terry Pipes 12,483 Honda GL1800 87,627
*18 Tom Melchild 10,023 Yamaha FJR1300 87,014
19 Bill Shaw 10,513 Honda GL1800 86,704
*20 Jim Frens 10,150 Honda GL1800 86,650
*21 Bob St George 10,150 Yamaha FJR1300 86,650
*22 Vicki Johnston 11,527 BMW R1200GS 86,564
*23 Bob Wooldridge 11,215 BMW R1150GS 86,389
*24 Dean Tanji 11,346 Yamaha FJR1300 86,374
*25 Thane Silliker 10,456 Honda ST1100 86,114
*26 Harry Kaplan 12,193 Yamaha FJR1300 85,453
*27 Keith Keating 11,169 BMW R1150R 85,430
28 Ed Phelps 11,483 BMW K1100LT 84,556
29 George Zelenz 10,997 Yamaha FJR1300 84,448
*30 Paul Meredith 10,696 BMW R1150GS 84,070
*31 John Ferber 12,142 Yamaha FJR1300 83,968
*32 Geoffrey Greene 12,494 BMW R1100RS 83,802
*33 Rick Sauter 10,826 Suzuki DL1000 83,747
*34 Morris Kruemcke 12,413 Honda GL1800 83,444
*35 Rob Nye 9,888 BMW R1150GSA 83,080
36 Tom & Rosie Sperry 11,450 BMW R1150GS 82,512
37 Rick Martin 11,303 Yamaha FJR1300 81,458
*38 George Barnes 12,950 BMW K1200LT 81,033
*39 Rick Morrison 9,803 Suzuki DL1000 81,015
*40 Al Holtsberry 11,732 BMW R100/7 79,826
41 Mac MacFarlane 11,651 BMW R1150GSA 79,592
*42 Jim Winterer 10,921 Suzuki DL650 79,531
43 Doug Chapman 11,831 Yamaha FJR1300 79,372
44 Steve Hobart 10,148 Honda GL1800 79,126
*45 Sean Gallagher 10,208 BMW R1150GS-ADV 79,016
46 Beverly Ruffin 9,829 BMW R1150RT 78,453
*47 Homer Krout 10,219 BMW R1200GS 76,541
48 Bill Watt 10,475 Honda GL1800 74,043
49 John Bolin 10,694 BMW R1150RT 73,990
50 Rebecca Vaughn 10,335 BMW R1100RS 73,369
*51 Russ Pagenkopf 8,948 Triumph Trophy 72,956
*52 Gerhard Memmen-Krueger 8,701 BMW R1150GSA 72,046
53 Robert Mueller 10,330 Suzuki DL1000 71,752
54 Mike Berlien 11,703 Honda ST1300 71,426
55 Verne Hauck 8,693 BMW R1150RT 71,388
56 Jim Peterson 8,751 BMW R1150RT 71,388
*57 Peter Dean 10,215 BMW K1200LT 71,287

SILVER MEDAL FINISHERS:

*58 Alan Barbic 10,007 Honda ST1100 69,504
59 Duke Dunsford 9,497 Kawasaki 250 Ninja 66,971

BRONZE MEDAL FINISHERS:

60 Tobie Stevens 9,973 Yamaha FJR1300 64,425
61 Heidi Still 11,176 BMW R1150RT-P 64,425
62 Dave Biasotti 9,509 Yamaha GTS1000 64,413
63 Rick Mayer 11,015 BMW R1150RT 63,579
64 Bob Still 11,123 BMW R1150GS 63,425
*65 Bob Mutchler 10,736 BMW R1150RT-P 62,494
66 Michael Smeyers 10,236 Honda GL1800 62,111
*67 Bill Thweatt 10,548 Honda ST1300-ABS 61,545
68 Steve Steller 9,591 Vespa Piaggio X9 61,504
69 Kendall Anderson 9,086 Suzuki DL1000 61,366

70 Brett Donahue 12,525 H-D Sportster 44,615"

I didn't copy and paste all the information he sent me, but as you can see in the Iron Butt Rally there are very few H-D's that do it or finish.
 

·
Chard Member
Joined
·
12,963 Posts
Cherrie said:
I got this from Mike Kneebone.
This same info is on the IBA website. Most, if not all, is at the link I posted above.

I wasn't trying "mislead" anyone. I know very little about the IBA and don't really care to know much about it. LD riding is not something I worry about any longer. 800 mile days on a regular basis is all I need to do. I've hit the asphalt too many times over the last 40 years to be doing Iron Butts.. ROFL....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,789 Posts
Red said:
tjshelton said:
OK. But do you really think towing your bike for 1,000 miles qualifies as an Iron Butt run?
Get over it! They build a bike most of America wants to own. You can't help it if you're not normal. LOL.... :wink:

I did my first documented 1000/24 on a '76 Superglide, in '77, before the Iron Butt was around. Did my second one on a Wing in '82.

FYI... I didn't have to trailer either bike. :lol:
Hey Red... I've never had anything to get over. LOL...

My comment was a light hearted attempt at humor, designed to end this developing feud... Perhaps you are a bit over-invested in this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,393 Posts
Red said:
tjshelton said:
OK. But do you really think towing your bike for 1,000 miles qualifies as an Iron Butt run?
Get over it! They build a bike most of America wants to own. You can't help it if you're not normal. LOL.... :wink:

I did my first documented 1000/24 on a '76 Superglide, in '77, before the Iron Butt was around. Did my second one on a Wing in '82.

FYI... I didn't have to trailer either bike. :lol:


"The bike most of America wants to own" Yep, because most Americans don't know anything about motorcycles and/or are more interested in being part of a "me-to culture" :roll:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,027 Posts
I would think the more important stat would be in RE-SALE of LOW MILEAGE motorcycles.

If I look in our paper, there is 3 or 4 columns of Harley's for sale.

I went to a Harley dealership a few months ago, the place was packed with guys looking at bikes. I thought to myself if there was 50 guys in here and they all purchase a bike, 45 of them will be selling that bike within 1000 miles of ownership.

I'm not bashing Harley or any thing else. I'm bashing the weekend warrior. The guy that thinks riding a motorcycle is a once-in-while "thrill" ride.

After 1000 miles of city riding they discover this can be a very dangerous thing to do.

I have no clue why total sales is even a statistic? or why they make these numbers public........who cares, it doesn't affect me in the least. The only people that should care are share holders and the Board of Directors :roll:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
244 Posts
Back up jmac. Look again. lets take Honda. Go to Cycle trader . com Best place to see whats going on. We need to look at the % of bikes being sold vs bikes owned in america. pr bikes owned Honda is selling a lot on Trader. Does this mean Honda is a bad bike ? Harley just brought a new line of bikes. Six speed and bigger engines. that in its self would make sales go up and especially used harley sales. Theres your answer. All the Harley guys want a new six speed.

As for Harley in the Ironbutt comp. I would guess theres just to many Harley stors to stop at to make it through the iron butt. Or bars. Which comes first. I personally am VERY interested in trying out for the ironbutt.
That sounds like something one would be very proud to accomplish.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top