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Discussion Starter #1
Well, I just got the word about my bent shifter fork - Honda says that it is NOT a warranty repair.

They said IF I had gotten a defective in material or workmanship problem it would have been noticed right away. But since I had the bike for 25 months (and only have ridden it for 18 of those months) that means I have to foot the bill!

Now I would understand IF I had abused the bike, had added some non-conforming hardware (they like to pick on the heel - toe shifter), or had been involved in an accident - that would be reasonable.

And I liked how they made a point about the FIRST got the bike thing.

So being the smart butt I can be - I asked the Honda rep (on the phone) WHAT would be covered IF I didn't notice the problem when I FIRST got the bike? After all, IF I have to KNOW I am going to have a problem with the bike since I have "ridden" it for 25 months - what can I expect in the future to be denied.

Now I didn't want to be unreasonable so I asked for TWO possibilities that (1) not from abuse, (2) not from modifications, or (3) not from an accident would be covered.

The Honda rep would NOT even give me an example of 2 possibilities - so I narrowed it down to ONE and still no go.

SO, I am now at a quandry. I have 9 months to decide IF I should get the Extended warranty. Since the FIRST time I take the bike in for something that I have not had a problem with on my other 2 bikes (and I still have them and still ride them) and Honda DOES NOT WANT TO REPAIR AS A WARRANTY and WILL NOT DISPATCH THE Service Rep, what value does the Extended warranty have? If Honda can just deny everything as not a defect or workmanship problem after 25 months - why do I want to buy the extended warranty?

I have no doubt that the current dealer is trying their hardest to get the warranty - but Honda is stonewalling me and them too.

Is it time to get a lawyer? Should I contact my State Attorney's office? Is the Extended warranty ONLY a sales bennie if I decide to sell the bike?
 

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They said IF I had gotten a defective in material or workmanship problem it would have been noticed right away.
It might be useful to have them put that ludicrous statement in writing. If this is the case what is the point of having a 3 year warranty?

Seems to me the whole issue is whether you did anything out of the ordinary operation to damage your bike. It would be no different if there was something else that broke in the drive train. Their out would be your abuse. Question is who has the burden of proof? I would think they do.

Lawyers are not a viable approach for small dollar cases like this, but small claims court might be very useful. Forces these guys out from hiding behind their desk. I would think they would have a difficult defense in small claims. If they can testify with some degree of certainty as to how you may have damaged the shifter, then the question arises why, having known this, that Honda did not warn the owner in the owner's manual as they did with other matters.

What does the dealer say regarding how this could be damaged?
 

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Dan18960 said:
Is it time to get a lawyer? Should I contact my State Attorney's office? Is the Extended warranty ONLY a sales bennie if I decide to sell the bike?
Lawyer... not unless you don't mind paying more for legal services than the repair.

State Attorney's office... definitely, you need to check your state laws regarding "lemon laws" on motor vehicles. Also, state laws regarding warranties in general. Here in Massachusetts consumer protection is very liberal.

Myself, I would have argued that the shifter fork material was not properly harden, which caused it to bend. The ball is now in their court.

Extended warranty ONLY a sales bennie... sure is!

All else fails and your good at web pages I would get a domain name like www.hondaripoff.com and place your complaint there. I would then call Honda customer service and say... hey look here. I would like my problem fixed.

Pete
 

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that sure sounds like it should be covered by the drive train warranty.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Well, the repair is no small amount (at least in my mind) - $3000.00

Heel - toe shifter NOPE - the bike has only chrome and Honda parts installed. Spoiler, cb, cd changer, running lights, saddle and trunk led lights, MOP's (which are well out of the way of shifting lever), heated hand grips, and mirror turn signals.

The dealer "feels" that it should be warranty.

The BIG issue is Honda refusing to even send the Field rep to inspect the bike.

I did call the State Attorney's office, they said it was a valid complaint (not that I was right or wrong), and I submitted it.

Since the dealer has been basically in my court with this and really did come to front in agreeing to the teardown - I called them after I submitted the AG complaint and told them I did BUT it was NOT listing them as the "company" but Honda America Motor Co., Inc.

At the very least Honda will get a letter that the AG of PA is investigating it.
 

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Dan, Do not know if this will help in your fight but Yamaha covers it. I have a friend with an 03 Venture that just had problems. Truns out that is not what it was but was what they thought and it would have been a covered repair.
 

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Attorney General....most definitely yes. I had an analog tracfone that I tried to add minutes to a couple years ago. I called the #, and they programmed my phone, then told me to wait 24 hrs, and it'd be ready to go. It wasn't. After two weeks of this, the final person told me that my phone was dead. But a new phone, and they would transfer my minutes to it. I asked why the first person didn't tell me that two weeks ago?

I contacted the AG, and a few weeks later, Tracfone was falling all over themselves to send me a new DIGITAL phone, they'd transfer the minutes, and if I had any more problems, to be sure to call them.

Thanks Lisa. (Lisa Madigan, AG of IL). :wink:
 

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Dan18960 said:
Well, I just got the word about my bent shifter fork - Honda says that it is NOT a warranty repair.
A "bent" shifter fork does sound more like abuse than a warranty item.

However,
1) how do you know the difficulty is being caused by the shifter fork being "bent"? Are you just guessing?
2) Is there a possibility that something else could cause the same symptom?
3) IF the shifter fork is bent, was it caused by abuse, or did something else fail internally?
4) How can Honda determine if it is a warranty repair without taking the trans apart and looking at it?

It seems to me that the shop would have to split the engine case first and determine exactly what failed before they could take your case to Honda for possible warranty coverage. If it was determined that indeed it was abuse, then the bill would be yours. If the shop was able to determine the fault wasn't yours then they would have something to present to Honda for warranty consideration.

Bent shifter forks from 'speed shifting' is probably pretty common to Honda (SWAG!) and I'm not surprised that they would balk at most claims. So, if it's something you can't live with, get the shop to tear it down and try to help you make a case to present to Honda. If you have to bite the bill on this one, at least you no longer have a bike with a bad transmission.
 

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Sounds like a lot of cr_p from Honda. What are they thinking? BS like this will cause them long term issues.

I have not had a good experience with honda's support either! At least they did not want me to pay for anything. I lost a lot of ridding time with loads of aggravation, but got 2 new batteries, spark plugs, air filter and some paint scratches for no additional charge.

I wonder if your dealer is telling them something more/different, than he is telling you.

You still have a few months left before you have to make a decision on the Extended Warranty. You might want a new bike, honda or maybe even a competitors.



Wish you the best!

Please keep us informed.
 

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All Boots No Saddle said:
Dan18960 said:
Well, I just got the word about my bent shifter fork - Honda says that it is NOT a warranty repair.
A "bent" shifter fork does sound more like abuse than a warranty item.

However,
1) how do you know the difficulty is being caused by the shifter fork being "bent"? Are you just guessing?
2) Is there a possibility that something else could cause the same symptom?
3) IF the shifter fork is bent, was it caused by abuse, or did something else fail internally?
4) How can Honda determine if it is a warranty repair without taking the trans apart and looking at it?

It seems to me that the shop would have to split the engine case first and determine exactly what failed before they could take your case to Honda for possible warranty coverage. If it was determined that indeed it was abuse, then the bill would be yours. If the shop was able to determine the fault wasn't yours then they would have something to present to Honda for warranty consideration.

Bent shifter forks from 'speed shifting' is probably pretty common to Honda (SWAG!) and I'm not surprised that they would balk at most claims. So, if it's something you can't live with, get the shop to tear it down and try to help you make a case to present to Honda. If you have to bite the bill on this one, at least you no longer have a bike with a bad transmission.
I would talk to the manager and dealer you bought the bike from. Normal riding if shifter forks bend they should be covered -put the pressure on the dealer not Honda. That is their job not yours. A good dealer can get it covered.
 

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The more I read about warranty denial by Honda, the more I am convinced that Honda has the worst warranty policy I have ever heard of from a motor vehicle manufacturer. Auto dealerships don't give this much of a hassle/denial on claims. Let's see, "it is the riders fault, the riders fault, only covered for certain reason and not others, out products are good you must have done something to it, sorry not covered." They design it, they manufacture the part or at least have the specs for someone else to manufacture it, they have quality control, they assemble the parts, they test everything, and they prep everything after shipped to the dealership. All we do is ride the damn machine and Honda can't back their end. Any then to force Honda's hand we have to sue in small claims court, nbecause it is not worth the expense of a lawyer or go to our local state agency that handles consumer complaints. Just as important as the machine itself is the support service standing behind the machine.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
All Boots No Saddle said:
A "bent" shifter fork does sound more like abuse than a warranty item.

However,
1) how do you know the difficulty is being caused by the shifter fork being "bent"? Are you just guessing?
Not guessing - I "guaranteed" payment to teardown the bike to make sure that I was NOT imagining a problem. They had to take the motor and trans completely apart and showed me the bent shifter fork. And nothing else was amiss in the engine. Gears were all "clean", no burn parts, no chipped parts, no signs of "abuse" whatsoever.

2) Is there a possibility that something else could cause the same symptom?
That is why I guaranteed the teardown - I wanted to know if this was problem or a symptom of other issues. The only thing the dealer found was the bent shifter fork. Everything else fell in line.

3) IF the shifter fork is bent, was it caused by abuse, or did something else fail internally?
Nothing else was affected.

4) How can Honda determine if it is a warranty repair without taking the trans apart and looking at it?
They didn't. They refused tearing down the bike from the beginning when I went to the first dealer in July.

It seems to me that the shop would have to split the engine case first and determine exactly what failed before they could take your case to Honda for possible warranty coverage. If it was determined that indeed it was abuse, then the bill would be yours. If the shop was able to determine the fault wasn't yours then they would have something to present to Honda for warranty consideration.
This is the whole argument of the case - the shop can't determine that my riding caused the problem, the only internal "damage" is the bent shifter fork.

Bent shifter forks from 'speed shifting' is probably pretty common to Honda (SWAG!) and I'm not surprised that they would balk at most claims. So, if it's something you can't live with, get the shop to tear it down and try to help you make a case to present to Honda. If you have to bite the bill on this one, at least you no longer have a bike with a bad transmission.
And that they say is the rest of the story. I did have the shop teardown the bike, I now have a bill so I know the amount of the repair, and I WILL have a bike that is 100% again.

BUT Boots, IF this happened to you (and I am making the assumption that you ride your bikes normally) would you purchase the extended warranty? Would you feel that Honda would stand behind any other problems that you had with your bike - if they can make the comment that you would have seen "that" problem when you first got the bike?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
laen said:
I would talk to the manager and dealer you bought the bike from. Normal riding if shifter forks bend they should be covered -put the pressure on the dealer not Honda. That is their job not yours. A good dealer can get it covered.
Laen,

I tried my original dealer - the owner is the one who said Honda doesn't let him teardown GoldWings! Now I found that comment not only out in left field but a refusal to even want to do the work.

Their people are also the one's that said that they could only recreate the problem by soft shifting - now I ride 2 other bikes and even with soft shifting (I had to REALLY concentrate to even do it), I could not get my bike to jump in 5th gear like the GL was doing.

After they adjusted the tension on the shifter lever - it did reduce the lurching but then it started slipping out of gear in 4th. I don't know what adjustment they made - but it definitely did not make matters better. I "feel" that it made matters worst - just from effects of the 4th gear now being a problem.
 

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Well; you have done what I would have done. I would have paid for the inspectoin and IF there was material or workmanship damage I would have documented that and requested the dealer to state teh case to waranty. If the bike operated initially without shifting flaws, tehn the fork was not bent initially. That does not mean the part was/is not faulty, perhpads it was improperly hardened or has stress cracks. It needs to be examined. If the part is up to spec other than the damage, then Honda is not being unreasonable to refuse (they are being unwise, but not unreasonable). If you did not booger the part, berhaps some parking log idiot dd by stomping hell out of the shifter while unattended.

prs
 

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This post isn't going to be popular - I know many of you think every square inch of the bike should be repaired free during the warranty period, regardless of how or why it failed. The sad fact is, any vehicle warranty covers defects in materials or workmanship. But damaged parts aren't covered unless a covered part failed and caused damage to surrounding parts. For instance, had a gear bound up on the shaft so it wouldn't slide easily, the excess force required to shift could cause a bent shift fork. In that case, the gear, shaft, and everthing else damaged would be covered by warranty. But since your mechanic found nothing damaged but the shift fork, that indicates your problem resulted from forces that came from outside of the transmission, not from the inside. I know you believe the damage wasn't caused by anything you did. While that may be true (and maybe not), it also wasn't the result of a defect in materials or workmanship. Warranties don't cover misfortune.

Stu
 

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This is always the dilemma of the warrantee, what does and doesn't it cover. For me the essence of a warrantee is the intention of the manufacturer. If a manufacturer never intends to sell another bike, then I suspect the warrantee would not be worth the paper it was printed on.

On the other hand years ago the Japanese and more recently Korean companies extended their automotive warranteed coverage to longer mileage, covering pratically everything. This makes the statement that they are in it for the long haul. Trading shorter term profit for longer term brand loyalty. I believe this is one of the intangibles that has led the domestic automotive market into decline.

Honda motorcycle is now looking at this dilemma and needs to make a choice, continue to provide outstanding warrantee coverage for their $20,000 motorcycle or eventually lose the brand loyalty that has made this motorcycle the number one tourer in the US.
 

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Stu_O said:
This post isn't going to be popular - I know many of you think every square inch of the bike should be repaired free during the warranty period, regardless of how or why it failed. The sad fact is, any vehicle warranty covers defects in materials or workmanship. But damaged parts aren't covered unless a covered part failed and caused damage to surrounding parts. For instance, had a gear bound up on the shaft so it wouldn't slide easily, the excess force required to shift could cause a bent shift fork. In that case, the gear, shaft, and everthing else damaged would be covered by warranty. But since your mechanic found nothing damaged but the shift fork, that indicates your problem resulted from forces that came from outside of the transmission, not from the inside. I know you believe the damage wasn't caused by anything you did. While that may be true (and maybe not), it also wasn't the result of a defect in materials or workmanship. Warranties don't cover misfortune.

Stu
Warranties cover both singular items and multiple items regardless of what damage they might cause to each other or itself. The damage must be caused ONLY through the “general use” of said item or items to be covered by any expressed or implied warranty. Damage/undamaged items can also be replaced due to design flaws.

Example: Honda just replaced my center console drink holder in my Accord. I would place a drink into the holder and when I pulled the drink out of the holder, the drink holder would come out with the drink. The damage was specifically caused by outside forces, my pushing and pulling the drink in/out of the holder, but during the "general use" of the drink holder. It was a “design flaw” that did not retain the drink holder while I pushed and pulled on it.

Frankly, I think it’s a material strength issue with the fork. For about $1000 dollars the material can be analyzed for strength and defects. I have been a manufacturing engineer for 35 years and I can attest first hand the duplicate metal parts do not all have the same strength.

Honda is just using smoke and mirrors to prevent paying for their misfortune! Warranties are very specific on parts they do not cover, which are general replaceable wear items… brakes, tires, etc. I have never seen a shifting fork listed as a wear item. A shifting fork is suppose to last as long as your transmission.

The AG Office is your best approach. True if suing and you win your case Honda MIGHT have to pay your legal fees, but only after you paid them first and a Judge consented to those terms.

Pete
 

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January 2005 the bearing that the alternator rides in failed on my 2004 Wing. The bearing was covered under warranty and the local dealer (Fort Myers Sunsports of Ft Myers, Florida) completed the job. Shortly thereafter the bike developed an oil leak. The bike was brought back to the dealer (with digital pictures documenting mileage/time). This dealer wouldn't not address the problem. I ended up calling Honda who stated it probably wouldn't pay for the repair under warranty due to an apparent problem re-assemling the bike. They directed me to take action against the dealer. They informed me that they weren't responsible for the mechanic's actions.. I informed them that I assumed the mechanic was qualified as the shop was a HONDA dealer... I ended up going to Haps Honda (in Clearwater) and told them to just fix the bike and I would sue Honda and the local dealer if Honda did not cover the fix. Needless to say, Honda had a representative (without my asking) there and saw what the problem was. A piched oil seal at the back of the engine AND the rear clutch cover WAS GOUGED SEVERLY when the gasket material was removed. The bike was repaired and Honda picked up the tab, no questions asked.... Needless to say, I do not go to the local dealer for anything....
 
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